The solutions are all things that I hear from the many people I know who teach in public schools. It's a unity horse among teachers that out of school factors have huge effects on school performance.
It's how the solutions are implemented that create divisions. Many people wonder why the government has to get involved in making sure kids get what they need from home when that should be the parents' responsibility. Well, of course it falls on the parents first and foremost, but not everyone lives in a household with model parents, and the kids born into those families aren't to blame for their situations and need that extra push to get on equal footing with their peers. We can't afford to wait around for their parents to suddenly become invested in their kids' education. And then there are those parents who do care but live in poor households. Community organizations are great but can be overwhelmed with kids in need and a lot of organizations aren't exactly swimming in pools of money.
That's why in the other post I commented that I'm not against using taxpayer dollars to fund education but I think we need to start addressing poverty.
I think camps, after school programs probably have a bigger impact on a kids life than having 16 kids in a class instead of 20.
I also hate the whole "I did it on my own mentality" because none of us got where we are today because we did it on our own. We weren't feral children. My opportunity in life directly correlates to my parents envolvement, the librarians in the children's section of the library, my swim team coach, my high school quiz team coach, my 7th grade science teacher among many others. There were also many that held me back. My evil 4th grade teacher who went through a nasty divorce and was mean to us, my geometry teacher who told me I didn't belong in a class for juniors as a freshman so she wouldn't help me when I had questions, etc.
I also hate the whole "I did it on my own mentality" because none of us got where we are today because we did it on our own. We weren't feral children. My opportunity in life directly correlates to my parents envolvement, the librarians in the children's section of the library, my swim team coach, my high school quiz team coach, my 7th grade science teacher among many others. There were also many that held me back. My evil 4th grade teacher who went through a nasty divorce and was mean to us, my geometry teacher who told me I didn't belong in a class for juniors as a freshman so she wouldn't help me when I had questions, etc.
I love this. The sentiment is true and it is true of all of us (regardless of political leanings).
Post by SusanBAnthony on Aug 30, 2012 10:16:46 GMT -5
I pretty much 100% agree with the article.
When we did our xcountry move 6 months ago, my children behaved like feral hyenas for the 2 months we were packing and moving. They were absolutely beyond insane. It was the stress of the move, the house being torn apart, no toys, no understanding of what was coming next, all these huge unknowns. I cannot imagine how kids who continually live in that kind of environment, not knowing if after school one day they will be living somewhere else bc of an eviction, etc, can be successful.
Let alone the food issues, and the abuse issues, and the lack of parental abilities. And the potentially poor child care situations (one thing the Donny/ boy from troy thread never touched on was that his mom's boyfriend provided childcare while his mom worked- isn't that the recipe for child abuse?) etc. how can a teacher who has the kid for 7 hours a day compete with that?
When I served with AmeriCorps I was placed at a school with high-needs/underserved populations and noticed a lot of these similar trends and it's part of what led me to decide on social work rather than teaching as a profession. I couldn't do my job as an instructor because my students were tired, hungry, generally neglected, had overall tumultuous home lives, very little stability, and parents facing extreme financial hardships. The turn-over was incredible, and we had a lot of students come directly into 1st grade (K was optional) without knowing more than a few words of English.
Most of these things, quite honestly, were not even the fault of the parents, and obviously there is nothing the kids can do about it. My school actually had a really great, engaged parent population, and the district went out of its way to accommodate participation and feedback from monolingual Spanish-speaking parents so they and their children didn't slip through the cracks, which I thought was awesome. The bottom line is that even though the parents were working hard and doing their best, they were not able to provide for their kids what they needed to be successful students. These issues were the result of systemic inequity and poverty and a lack of adequate social programs, coupled with community organizations that were overextended financially and staff-wise. They just could not keep up with the level of need, and I'm talking about a community with a HUGE economic divide between rich and poor, so there were comparably generous donors than in other surrounding areas.
These multi-issue problems with the education system and with cyclical poverty in general (since so many of those issues listed above relate to poverty either directly or indirectly) is what makes it so hard for me to say, with regard to domestic policy issues - fix this but not that, cut this but fund that. Everything is so delicately interconnected and cuts to one area could have a devastating effect on performance in other areas.
The number one thing I never got about NCLB and other programs in the US was how if you did well you got more money, poorly you got less. It is clear, at least in my school board, that the socio-economic level of a neighbourhood correlates directly with scores on provincial tests. Here if your school tests poorly (or doesn't improve over time) you get more money, teachers get money for PD, extra time to plan/organize, it all helps.
I truly believe one of the best indicators of success for a child coming into junior kindergarden at the age of 3/4 (as they do here) is what has happened in the first 3-4 years of their life. It's why I believe in 1 year of maternity leave and government organized day care that provides 'education' (through play) immediately. I believe that such a day care could help children by providing better nutrition, activity level, exposure to reading materials, learning games, other children. These could all help to level the playing field developmentally when students enter JK. We have kids who come in reading and others who don't even know a single letter in the alphabet or their colours. That's a massive range.
Rugbywife, the NCLB funding thing was/is a disaster. Some states also have additional requirements for performance that come with financial losses for the school and it really puts a strain on the school having to improve more and more each year with fewer resources. Overall it is very reminiscent of the way US schools are funded to begin with. The property taxes as the basis for public school funding does nothing but perpetuate a cycle in which the students in need of the most support are served by the most financially strapped schools, people who can afford to move to areas with better school districts do, creating "flight" out of the worst communities and leaving the most disadvantaged kids with fewer options (in some ways the voucher system mirrors this) and driving up the values of the homes in the better districts, thus giving them more funding.
Out of curiosity, how are schools funded in Canada? Does it differ by Province? I'd be curious to know how it works and what your thoughts as a teacher are about the effectiveness of the funding structure.
Out of curiosity, how are schools funded in Canada? Does it differ by Province? I'd be curious to know how it works and what your thoughts as a teacher are about the effectiveness of the funding structure.
Everything education here is provincial, the only thing that the federal government gets involved in is funding French Immersion since French is an official language, so they give money to the provinces to support that, but that's it.
I can't speak for other provinces but funding in Ontario is complicated BUT it is 'fair'...at least in that elementary funding all looks the same and secondary funding all looks the same. I don't like that elementary is funded at considerably less than secondary but that is another thing.
There are multiple levels of funding but the most significant is the Per Pupil Grant, which is simply based on the number of students within a school board. It funds: classroom teachers, educational assistants, textbooks, classroom supplies, Classroom computers Library and guidance services, Specialist Teachers (including preparation time), Student Success teachers (including preparation time), Professional and para-professional supports. Classroom consultants
Then there is the School Foundation Grant, it funds: Principals, Vice-principals, School Secretaries, School office supplies
So more or less school boards put together numbers/needs/etc and the Ministry of Ed provides them with money. They are allowed to pick from some 'pots' and switch money around, to a certain degree, but there are rules that need to be followed, particularly anything related to collective agreements and provincial expectations (all day every day kindergarten has to be fully implemented by 2015 - although there is funding for that too, primary class size cap).
Then, beyond that, schools are identified as 'in need' if their test scores are low or don't improve over time. Additional grants are applied for throughout the school year.
I should add...in terms of what our test 'score'...we test literacy and numeracy in grade 3 and 6 and then in grade 9 numeracy again, grade 10 literacy. If you don't past the grade 10 literacy test by the time you are done school you do not graduate with an Ontario Secondary School Diploma (you get a certificate of completion of credits I think).
The goal is that students will achieve level 3 or 4 on the testing...that means a 'B-' or higher...each school board sets out their own goal in their Board Improvement Plan for Student Learning. Ours is that 80% of students will be achieving level 3 or 4 on their tests. My husband's school, in a very affluent neighbourhood, had a result of 92% of students achieving level 3 or 4 in grade 6 reading results...that means only 3 of their students didn't achieve provincial standards. My old school, in a slightly lower socio economic area, with a huge level of ESL and a Spec. Ed. population double the board's average had scores in the either the late 60s or high 70s for % of students at level 3 or 4. Because of that we were considered a "School in the Middle", which means teachers were provided with extra professional development and time to work on planning targeted interventions to improve learning (aka: test scores!). DHs school never gets that support.
Thank you for explaining all of that! So interesting. I like that all of the Ontario schools at the same level receive more equitable funding. It's also great that schools with additional needs, or that are struggling, can receive extra financial support. Those are the schools with students that need the most help, so it makes sense.
I am newly frustrated with the school funding issue because I'm in the process of moving to Boston and as a MA native it's reminding me how ridiculous it is that schools that are literally only miles away from one another in neighboring towns can have such a vast difference in funding per pupil. Hundreds of dollars worth of difference, in some cases. And I'm not talking about extra support for high-needs student and family populations, but more money for schools in wealthier neighborhoods vs. less money for students in poorer neighborhoods. As someone who went to public schools that struggled with their budgets yearly and having friends who were put through some of the best public schools in the country the difference between the quality of our k-12 educations is definitely apparent.
Thank you for explaining all of that! So interesting. I like that all of the Ontario schools at the same level receive more equitable funding. It's also great that schools with additional needs, or that are struggling, can receive extra financial support. Those are the schools with students that need the most help, so it makes sense.
I am newly frustrated with the school funding issue because I'm in the process of moving to Boston and as a MA native it's reminding me how ridiculous it is that schools that are literally only miles away from one another in neighboring towns can have such a vast difference in funding per pupil. Hundreds of dollars worth of difference, in some cases. And I'm not talking about extra support for high-needs student and family populations, but more money for schools in wealthier neighborhoods vs. less money for students in poorer neighborhoods. As someone who went to public schools that struggled with their budgets yearly and having friends who were put through some of the best public schools in the country the difference between the quality of our k-12 educations is definitely apparent.
I think this is partially why I don't *get* the whole voucher system. Schools in less affluent neighbourhoods do have lower test scores overall but they aren't funded differently here. They don't fundraise as much money as richer schools BUT the government here just put in a piece of legislation that states that schools cannot use money raised by the parent association to pay for things that the government should have been paying for/could have been paying for. Example: government spends money on computers...a school in an affluent neighbourhood can't spend 10s of thousands on computers when a poorer neighbourhood can't because they didn't raise as much money. They can buy team uniforms, or pay for buses for field trips, or other stuff (I don't know the list, I would have to search for it) but if it is something that should be paid for by the government a school can't use fundraised money to buy 'more' for their school. I am sure many people find this unfair but really it is about equity across the system.
This is why I am 100% against basing funding on testing. There are so many factors outside the school that teachers can't (and shouldn't) be responsible for. Yet they, and the schools, suffer the consequences of it. As do the students, who end up being taught to the test and miss out on so many other opportunities.
Thank you for explaining all of that! So interesting. I like that all of the Ontario schools at the same level receive more equitable funding. It's also great that schools with additional needs, or that are struggling, can receive extra financial support. Those are the schools with students that need the most help, so it makes sense.
I am newly frustrated with the school funding issue because I'm in the process of moving to Boston and as a MA native it's reminding me how ridiculous it is that schools that are literally only miles away from one another in neighboring towns can have such a vast difference in funding per pupil. Hundreds of dollars worth of difference, in some cases. And I'm not talking about extra support for high-needs student and family populations, but more money for schools in wealthier neighborhoods vs. less money for students in poorer neighborhoods. As someone who went to public schools that struggled with their budgets yearly and having friends who were put through some of the best public schools in the country the difference between the quality of our k-12 educations is definitely apparent.
I think this is partially why I don't *get* the whole voucher system. Schools in less affluent neighbourhoods do have lower test scores overall but they aren't funded differently here. They don't fundraise as much money as richer schools BUT the government here just put in a piece of legislation that states that schools cannot use money raised by the parent association to pay for things that the government should have been paying for/could have been paying for. Example: government spends money on computers...a school in an affluent neighbourhood can't spend 10s of thousands on computers when a poorer neighbourhood can't because they didn't raise as much money. They can buy team uniforms, or pay for buses for field trips, or other stuff (I don't know the list, I would have to search for it) but if it is something that should be paid for by the government a school can't use fundraised money to buy 'more' for their school. I am sure many people find this unfair but really it is about equity across the system.
That last bit at the bottom would NEVER fly in the US, but I love it! I probably just should have been Canadian.
I get the voucher system in that I get why parents concerned about their kids' education would want a voucher system or lottery system or charter school system to try to get their kid into a better school/district. It certainly does that for some students and when it does that is great. What is not great is that it's incredibly complicated to navigate, drains high-performing students and involved parents out of lower-performing schools and into schools with similar parent and student populations, and results in less funding for the poorer school districts because often students take "their" allotted student $ amount with them when they transfer schools, leaving their home school with even fewer resources for serving their remaining students. The voucher system, in particular, operates on the free market principle that schools with compete with each other to get the best students and that underperforming schools will die off and close as they are unable to sustain student populations due to students leaving for better schools. In reality this doesn't really work because schools are not businesses and public schools are required to serve ALL students regardless of ability or performance. This disadvantages students with disabilities or other school-related challenges in addition to low-income or students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds who may perform at a lower level due to a multitude of factors. Then there is the socioeconomic implications of the voucher system or charter school system in general, in which middle class parents are more able to navigate the application process/lottery process for the better schools, transportation issues with students going out of their "home" school and into a school further away (obviously some parents have greater ability to assist with student transport daily and many schools do not provide bussing for students "choicing" into district), and the fact that some schools counsel out students or families that they don't think will be high-performers or put restrictions on attendance by requiring parent volunteer hours or other involvement that disproportionately impacts low-income parents.
It is a great solution for the *individual students* who are able to take advantage of it considering that our current system is horribly broken, but a magic bullet that should be implemented system-wide as a fix for the education system as a whole? Please no.
Post by basilosaurus on Aug 30, 2012 11:45:31 GMT -5
rugbywie, there's another element to vouchers which is states trying to funnel money to religious schools. See Louisiana for a recent example of this type of rhetoric.
I don't get ANYONE who says that the education sector can be run like a business. It just isn't possible, the two sectors are nothing alike. We dot get to pick and choose our students where I come from, you get what you get and you work with it. It's why I don't agree with merit pay in education, ever.
Rugby - Actually many states have funding formulas similar to how it's done in your area. We have in Tennessee what is called the Basic Education Program (see here for more info: www.tn.gov/sbe/bep.html#General Overview) and it also breaks down funding into different categories: teachers, classroom, textbooks, etc. As for poor schools getting less money, IIRC that's not really a function of NCLB. School districts decried NCLB because it was an unfunded mandate forcing them to meet new accountability standards, but not giving them money to help get to the standards.
The inequity in school district funding comes primarily from how the state and local government funds the school system. Using my state as an example, the city and county systems receive funding on a attendance split with a larger portion of the money going to the city system because A) it's twice as large, and 2) the needs of the students (nearly 83% labeled as at-risk) are greater. Previously, the city of Memphis gave extra money to the city schools so it supplants the state and federal money. That's where the inequity lies. If a city chooses to give more money to the district. If the city is rather wealthy, the school district can get more money than a neighboring school district. The US Dept of Education/Federal Govt gives more money to poor school districts through Title 1 funds.
Back to what the article - what can districts do to combat this? Sadly, the state and local govt have to be on board with providing additional money to fund non-traditional methods. What non-traditional methods? Well things like community education centers housed in schools. Our district opened up health clinics to address the need for healthcare access. Student mobility - school districts may need to go to a system-wide curriculum to ensure kids don't miss lesson time if they are moving from one school to the next. A lot of the policy talk is about allowing schools to have more autonomy, but when you do that and change curriculum the high-mobility students miss out.
In short, school districts are going to end up tackling social issues but they just don't have the monetary resources to do it.
I don't get ANYONE who says that the education sector can be run like a business. It just isn't possible, the two sectors are nothing alike. We dot get to pick and choose our students where I come from, you get what you get and you work with it. It's why I don't agree with merit pay in education, ever.
It's like running a business where you are legally required to hire every person off the street who comes in asking for a job and you aren't allowed to ever fire or lay anyone off.