Sad - Employee Quit After Maternity Leave

[Deleted]

I just found out today that an employee who works for me is NOT returning to work after her Maternity leave is finished. She was scheduled to come back next week, and we had a teleconference today to catch up, and she broke the news.

I am first sad, because she's an awesome employee - we might be able to find a way to keep working with her on a more flexible basis, when she's ready, but it's a bummer.

I also feel a bit burned - we've been holding the job for her since her little boy was born, and now we have to start looking for a replacement. And now that I re-read some of our e-mail correspondence throughout her mat leave I can see that she was alluding to changing her mind / not coming back. She probably felt she was signalling to me a little bit.

I'm not a mom, so don't know how the decisionmaking process goes, but I am also a bit frustrated because many of my (male) co-workers insisted when she went on Mat Leave that she'd never come back. So a little frustrated that they were right and I was wrong.

No Mommy Wars allowed on this thread, just sad to lose a good employee and a bit frustrated to have to hire a newbie.

She said she might be interested in coming back "sometime in the future" but it seemed a little fuzzy to me, I'm not counting on it. Sigh.

[winnied]

That sucks, I'm sorry.

I'm not a parent either and I'm sure this decision isn't made easily at all.

Not that you can do anything about it, but I frequently wonder if this is why employers are still so unfair to women, if they even hire them. They just assume you're going to get pregnant and leave.

[GailGoldie]

it sucks- but it happens... and often women agonize over the decision - so it's not easy on either end (most of the time).

[egishere]

That does suck but it seems to happen pretty frequently.

I was told directly to my face several times by male cw's and my director that they would be surprised if I came back after ML. It was kind of hurtful to me. I proved them wrong and did come back.

[soozy87]

With a person like that, would you be willing to hire them back?

[Deleted]

I found a new job shortly after I came back from maternity leave--I guess that makes me a jerk to some people too, but frankly I knew I was going to get screwed at review time because I was out on "vacation" according to some.

[Deleted]

Sorry


This is where the long mat leaves in Canada really helps employers. Typically contractors are hired to back fill so if someone chooses not to come back after their year you do have someone trained who is likely willing to come on full time or extend their contract. You see mat leave postings all the time.

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2012 16:51:56 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

With a person like that, would you be willing to hire them back?

We worked together for over 5 years, and she was an exceptional contributor, so right now, YES absolutely.

She was very emotional and even apologetic when she told me - I could tell she was dreading "spitting it out."

I know nothing about the first few months of being a mom, but from observing I know that the "do I go back to work / when" decision is a hard one. I do think it would have been great for her to muster up the courage to tell me earlier or to make up her mind earlier. She told me that she and DH just finalized the decision this weekend after discussing it for the last few months.

[Deleted]

That does suck. I think maybe she was really undecided or needed the insurance. When I got pg the first time I told them that I wasn't returning to work the same day I told them I was pregnant. They treated me nice the rest of my working there (4 or 5 months) but I've heard others aren't treated well. This time I'm planning on coming back to work but honestly I have no idea if I actually will--depends on temperament of this baby & my ability to find childcare I trust.

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2012 16:50:32 GMT -5 egishere said:

That does suck but it seems to happen pretty frequently.

I was told directly to my face several times by male cw's and my director that they would be surprised if I came back after ML. It was kind of hurtful to me. I proved them wrong and did come back.

I was offended on her behalf when the guys said this behind her back, and told them so. ARGH, frustrating.

I wish we had the Canadian system of being able to bring those contractors in!! That would have been great.

[UnderProtest]

So this probably will start a mommy war, but it is the system that encourages women to not be truthful about coming back to work after maternity leave. If she told you she was thinking about not coming back or definitely wasn't coming back, she could have lost her benefits. I was hesitant to take maternity leave when I knew I wasn't coming back to work, but I had put in a lot of time at the company. I have since had two executives tell me that is what maternity leave is for and that I earned it. I still could have lost my benefits if I had given notice before my leave was over.

[mrshabious]

I've had that happen to me twice. I am a little bitter and jaded now! I feel your pain and it sucks!

[drloretta]

It's a difficult decision, and women get a lot of mixed signals on this.

I was happy mine worked out so well. I told my boss a month before my ML was over that I was only coming back for a month to cover a huge shortage in my dept. I was able to get that FT work in, give them 8 weeks to find my replacement, and leave on good enough terms to still freelance for them. I wish more people had that kind of flexibility

[soozy87]

Dec 4, 2012 16:59:19 GMT -5 UnderProtest said:

So this probably will start a mommy war, but it is the system that encourages women to not be truthful about coming back to work after maternity leave. If she told you she was thinking about not coming back or definitely wasn't coming back, she could have lost her benefits. I was hesitant to take maternity leave when I knew I wasn't coming back to work, but I had put in a lot of time at the company. I have since had two executives tell me that is what maternity leave is for and that I earned it. I still could have lost my benefits if I had given notice before my leave was over.

Right, so what are you supposed to do if you are not planning on coming back? They might not be able to fire you because of a pregnancy, but I am sure lots of places can come up with other reasons to "down-size".

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2012 16:58:18 GMT -5 @shoegal said:

Dec 4, 2012 16:50:32 GMT -5 egishere said:

That does suck but it seems to happen pretty frequently.

I was told directly to my face several times by male cw's and my director that they would be surprised if I came back after ML. It was kind of hurtful to me. I proved them wrong and did come back.

I was offended on her behalf when the guys said this behind her back, and told them so. ARGH, frustrating.

I wish we had the Canadian system of being able to bring those contractors in!! That would have been great.

When you're looking at not having an employee for 6-12 months it makes sense to put some time into training a temporary replacement. And it seems more unreasonable (from the discussions I've heard anyway) to try and make do with one less person for that long. 8 weeks/2 months doesn't sound like a long time. 12 months does.

I think it also makes it easier for the parent to go to work. You aren't looking for care for a tiny helpless baby. In fact, by the time your 6-12 months are up the moms I know are looking forward to some adults only conversation and meetings

[UnderProtest]

Dec 4, 2012 17:04:07 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

Dec 4, 2012 16:59:19 GMT -5 UnderProtest said:

So this probably will start a mommy war, but it is the system that encourages women to not be truthful about coming back to work after maternity leave. If she told you she was thinking about not coming back or definitely wasn't coming back, she could have lost her benefits. I was hesitant to take maternity leave when I knew I wasn't coming back to work, but I had put in a lot of time at the company. I have since had two executives tell me that is what maternity leave is for and that I earned it. I still could have lost my benefits if I had given notice before my leave was over.

Right, so what are you supposed to do if you are not planning on coming back? They might not be able to fire you because of a pregnancy, but I am sure lots of places can come up with other reasons to "down-size".

In a perfect world, you would be able to tell your employer you weren't coming back and they would still treat you fairly. Since this isn't a perfect world, women just don't say anything. That's why it's the system that is making women not truthful about their plans. And it does hurt everyone. I wish I could have told my employer, it could have helped another employee, but I didn't want to get laid off.

[sunny]

I'm sure she feels tons of guilt about it, is still second-guessing herself (with either decision to stay or to leave she would be!), and agonized over it for a while, even if she was dropping hints here and there. That said, it sucks to lose a great employee.

[rosetyler]

Your situation sucks, but I feel like the decision for her was probably really difficult, too. While I am sad that her decision probably impacted the perception of women in your workplace, and has left you in a tough position, I can't say I really blame her (acknowledging that I don't the specifics of your workplace or this woman).

If employers/the government actually offered decent work/life balance plans, this probably wouldn't be such an issue. I think women often feel trapped between work and family - no child care at work, miserly maternity leave plans, lack of flexible hours, etc. I personally think if we had more generous leave (like our Canadian friends), while it might be a hardship for the employer in the short term, I would think mothers would be far more likely to return. At least I would be.

It would be really, really hard for me to return to my current job after maternity leave. I've heard a lot of comments about people with kids, like how moms "leave early", even though they've put in an 8-9 hour day. Most people in leadership roles are either men, or single women. The American workplace, in general, is not family-friendly at all.

[kadams767]

Dec 4, 2012 17:12:30 GMT -5 UnderProtest said:

Dec 4, 2012 17:04:07 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

Right, so what are you supposed to do if you are not planning on coming back? They might not be able to fire you because of a pregnancy, but I am sure lots of places can come up with other reasons to "down-size".

In a perfect world, you would be able to tell your employer you weren't coming back and they would still treat you fairly. Since this isn't a perfect world, women just don't say anything. That's why it's the system that is making women not truthful about their plans. And it does hurt everyone. I wish I could have told my employer, it could have helped another employee, but I didn't want to get laid off.

My employer provides paid leave, along with benefits paid during said leave, but you have to pay a certain percentage back if you do not return to full time work for at least 6 months following the end of the leave.

[soozy87]

Dec 4, 2012 17:12:30 GMT -5 UnderProtest said:

Dec 4, 2012 17:04:07 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

Right, so what are you supposed to do if you are not planning on coming back? They might not be able to fire you because of a pregnancy, but I am sure lots of places can come up with other reasons to "down-size".

In a perfect world, you would be able to tell your employer you weren't coming back and they would still treat you fairly. Since this isn't a perfect world, women just don't say anything. That's why it's the system that is making women not truthful about their plans. And it does hurt everyone. I wish I could have told my employer, it could have helped another employee, but I didn't want to get laid off.

So, say I was planning on not coming back. Should I pretend that I am the whole duration of the pregnancy and maternity leave? Or should I give them 2 weeks of notice before my last day of work? I don't want to screw them over, but I don't want to get screwed over either.

[ijack]

After my situation I have a hard time feeling sorry for the company. I had intended on returning to work, but DD was born 11 weeks early after 6 weeks of hospital bed rest. She came home from the hospital the same week my FMLA ran out. I tried to work with my company to give me unpaid leave because honestly there was no way I could go back to work with a baby who wasn't even supposed to be born yet. They refused to work with me because they didn't want to set a precedent - you know because shit like that happens so often. This was a HUGE company, but they decided they'd rather go through the hassle of training someone new instead of retaining a quality employee. Screw them.

[rosetyler]

Dec 4, 2012 17:22:11 GMT -5 ijack said:

After my situation I have a hard time feeling sorry for the company. I had intended on returning to work, but DD was born 11 weeks early after 6 weeks of hospital bed rest. She came home from the hospital the same week my FMLA ran out. I tried to work with my company to give me unpaid leave because honestly there was no way I could go back to work with a baby who wasn't even supposed to be born yet. They refused to work with me because they didn't want to set a precedent - you know because shit like that happens so often. This was a HUGE company, but they decided they'd rather go through the hassle of training someone new instead of retaining a quality employee. Screw them.

Ugh, they can suck it.

[UnderProtest]

Dec 4, 2012 17:19:40 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

Dec 4, 2012 17:12:30 GMT -5 UnderProtest said:

In a perfect world, you would be able to tell your employer you weren't coming back and they would still treat you fairly. Since this isn't a perfect world, women just don't say anything. That's why it's the system that is making women not truthful about their plans. And it does hurt everyone. I wish I could have told my employer, it could have helped another employee, but I didn't want to get laid off.

So, say I was planning on not coming back. Should I pretend that I am the whole duration of the pregnancy and maternity leave? Or should I give them 2 weeks of notice before my last day of work? I don't want to screw them over, but I don't want to get screwed over either.

It depends on what your company policy is, but if I had given notice two weeks before I had my kids, they could have considered my last day before leave as my last day with the company and denied my leave. I then would not have had insurance or my paid maternity leave.

[soozy87]

Dec 4, 2012 17:27:02 GMT -5 UnderProtest said:

Dec 4, 2012 17:19:40 GMT -5 soozy87 said:

So, say I was planning on not coming back. Should I pretend that I am the whole duration of the pregnancy and maternity leave? Or should I give them 2 weeks of notice before my last day of work? I don't want to screw them over, but I don't want to get screwed over either.

It depends on what your company policy is, but if I had given notice two weeks before I had my kids, they could have considered my last day before leave as my last day with the company and denied my leave. I then would not have had insurance or my paid maternity leave.

So should I consider any paid maternity leave a benefit of working here regardless of if I am coming back or not? I am on my husbands insurance, so that wouldn't make a difference in my case.

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2012 17:22:11 GMT -5 ijack said:

After my situation I have a hard time feeling sorry for the company. I had intended on returning to work, but DD was born 11 weeks early after 6 weeks of hospital bed rest. She came home from the hospital the same week my FMLA ran out. I tried to work with my company to give me unpaid leave because honestly there was no way I could go back to work with a baby who wasn't even supposed to be born yet. They refused to work with me because they didn't want to set a precedent - you know because shit like that happens so often. This was a HUGE company, but they decided they'd rather go through the hassle of training someone new instead of retaining a quality employee. Screw them.

Oh wow. I didn't know they did all that to you. Screw that place.

[ijack]

Dec 4, 2012 17:32:39 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

Dec 4, 2012 17:27:02 GMT -5 UnderProtest said:

It depends on what your company policy is, but if I had given notice two weeks before I had my kids, they could have considered my last day before leave as my last day with the company and denied my leave. I then would not have had insurance or my paid maternity leave.

I guess I don't understand why you think you are entitled to paid leave (which is a benefit used to attract and retain employees) when you are not returning. It's not a bonus for giving birth, it is given with the understanding that you're returning. Leave = a break.

short term disability is actually a policy that you (or the company) pay into ahead of time as a benefit.

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2012 16:59:19 GMT -5 UnderProtest said:

So this probably will start a mommy war, but it is the system that encourages women to not be truthful about coming back to work after maternity leave. If she told you she was thinking about not coming back or definitely wasn't coming back, she could have lost her benefits. I was hesitant to take maternity leave when I knew I wasn't coming back to work, but I had put in a lot of time at the company. I have since had two executives tell me that is what maternity leave is for and that I earned it. I still could have lost my benefits if I had given notice before my leave was over.

I understand this perspective, but for this situation that is not true, because she was actually on her husband's insurance, so she would not have lost that.

She does have to pay back a huge lump sum that represents the compensation / value of her maternity leave. I gulped when I got the number, but she's a savvy lady so I'm hoping she had set her paychecks aside versus spending them. It's a check I would not want to cut out of my e-fund, that's for sure!

[soozy87]

Dec 4, 2012 17:32:39 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

Dec 4, 2012 17:27:02 GMT -5 UnderProtest said:

It depends on what your company policy is, but if I had given notice two weeks before I had my kids, they could have considered my last day before leave as my last day with the company and denied my leave. I then would not have had insurance or my paid maternity leave.

I guess I don't understand why you think you are entitled to paid leave (which is a benefit used to attract and retain employees) when you are not returning. It's not a bonus for giving birth, it is given with the understanding that you're returning. Leave = a break.

I am not saying I am entitled, I am asking a question. Why should I quit and not be paid during those 3 months while a co-worker gets paid for 3 months and then quits? I am not saying that that is what I plan on, I am just wondering what is normal.

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2012 17:29:55 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Dec 4, 2012 17:22:11 GMT -5 ijack said:

After my situation I have a hard time feeling sorry for the company. I had intended on returning to work, but DD was born 11 weeks early after 6 weeks of hospital bed rest. She came home from the hospital the same week my FMLA ran out. I tried to work with my company to give me unpaid leave because honestly there was no way I could go back to work with a baby who wasn't even supposed to be born yet. They refused to work with me because they didn't want to set a precedent - you know because shit like that happens so often. This was a HUGE company, but they decided they'd rather go through the hassle of training someone new instead of retaining a quality employee. Screw them.

Oh wow. I didn't know they did all that to you. Screw that place.

ijack that is AWFUL. If she had been in your situation, we would have completely worked with HR to work something out. That is horrible. Screw them, indeed.

[Deleted]

I do not think it is always an agonizing decision for women. I think a lot of women know exactly what they want and the agonizing thing is actually a manipulative ploy.