General thread about bariatric surgery

[Deleted]

NQB I see where you were going in your OP. To me, it seems too risky to have surgery for any reason unless it is truly medically necessary. When someone is not morbidly obese, as a plus 1x in that picture is, it seems like the risk of something going wrong during/after surgery, coupled with the horrible lifestyle changes (foaming at the mouth? Never drinking alcohol at all? Unable to eat even a remotely normal portion?) would be worth it. I think you can be overweight and still be relatively healthy, and I'd rather be a little achy and have to take cholesterol medication than to have to live my life the way it sounds like this girl is going to have to live.

I think it is different when someone is severely overweight and it seems like the decision is to have surgery or die.

I have to assume she has worked with a doctor, but I can understand the concern and would feel the same if someone I cared about was undergoing surgery for what seemed like a possibly unnecessary and not well thought out reason.

[kimibrighteyes]

Dec 5, 2012 20:24:31 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

NQB I see where you were going in your OP. To me, it seems too risky to have surgery for any reason unless it is truly medically necessary. When someone is not morbidly obese, as a plus 1x in that picture is, it seems like the risk of something going wrong during/after surgery, coupled with the horrible lifestyle changes (foaming at the mouth? Never drinking alcohol at all? Unable to eat even a remotely normal portion?) would be worth it. I think you can be overweight and still be relatively healthy, and I'd rather be a little achy and have to take cholesterol medication than to have to live my life the way it sounds like this girl is going to have to live.

I think it is different when someone is severely overweight and it seems like the decision is to have surgery or die.

I have to assume she has worked with a doctor, but I can understand the concern and would feel the same if someone I cared about was undergoing surgery for what seemed like a possibly unnecessary and not well thought out reason.

\

You may mean well, but these comments are misguided. You CANNOT tell who needs weight loss surgery by just looking at them. In fact, there are staging systems that doctors may use to help predict which patients have greater risks from their obesity and are more likely to benefit from surgery

www.cmaj.ca/content/183/14/E1059

The bottom line is that this woman and her physician should be making these decisions with the complete information that they have. It is really doing a disservice to the people who make these agonizing decisions by flippantly saying she shouldn't have surgery because she doesn't look big enough.

[beefjerky]

FFS, the amount of misinformation (and blatantly gross comments) in this thread is remarkable. The co-morbidities resolved following Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery or BPD specifically (not lapband) are significant. 85% of our patients with type 2 diabetes leave the hospital on NO oral hypoglycemics or insulin. Type 2 diabetes is essentially resolved following RYGB or BPD and weight loss is irrelevant. This reversal is maintained for up to 20 years (from research in our labs) and the majority of those patients remain clinically obese or overweight.

All cause mortality decreases significantly following RYGB. The risk for cancer decreases. Hypertension and dyslipidemia essentially are resolved in most cases. It really appears that the major contributing factor is the bypass of the duodenum and proximal jejunum (if I knew the exact mechanism I'd be a millionaire by now )

It's usually a year long process between all the consults, pre-surgery weight loss and psych counseling. There are quite a few "hoops" to jump through.

Here are some abstracts from the group I worked with for years

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20421005
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22710289
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22742719
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21593117

[Deleted]

Dec 5, 2012 20:31:48 GMT -5 kimibrighteyes said:

Dec 5, 2012 20:24:31 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

NQB I see where you were going in your OP. To me, it seems too risky to have surgery for any reason unless it is truly medically necessary. When someone is not morbidly obese, as a plus 1x in that picture is, it seems like the risk of something going wrong during/after surgery, coupled with the horrible lifestyle changes (foaming at the mouth? Never drinking alcohol at all? Unable to eat even a remotely normal portion?) would be worth it. I think you can be overweight and still be relatively healthy, and I'd rather be a little achy and have to take cholesterol medication than to have to live my life the way it sounds like this girl is going to have to live.

I think it is different when someone is severely overweight and it seems like the decision is to have surgery or die.

I have to assume she has worked with a doctor, but I can understand the concern and would feel the same if someone I cared about was undergoing surgery for what seemed like a possibly unnecessary and not well thought out reason.

\

You may mean well, but these comments are misguided. You CANNOT tell who needs weight loss surgery by just looking at them. In fact, there are staging systems that doctors may use to help predict which patients have greater risks from their obesity and are more likely to benefit from surgery

www.cmaj.ca/content/183/14/E1059

The bottom line is that this woman and her physician should be making these decisions with the complete information that they have. It is really doing a disservice to the people who make these agonizing decisions by flippantly saying she shouldn't have surgery because she doesn't look big enough.

Thanks Kimmie. I didn't mean to offend anyone with the OP and I have learned a lot from this thread. The only two people I knew before now that had WLS were very significantly obese and I remember the process being a lot longer than 4 months.

And thanks to everyone else who shared their stories.

[ijack]

Bibliophile, I think it's really easy for you to spew stuff like that because it worked for you. It's a proven fact that someone who is 175# after losing 100lbs has to eat less and exercise more than someone who is "normally" 175 (normal isn't the word I want to use, but I can't think right now. Basically someone who didn't lose a lot of weight to get to that weight). It's not just the 175 person compared to themselves at 275 - when you've been overweight your body is different.
It's awesome that you've been lucky enough to see changes through diet and exercise, I have as well - and I realize a lot of it really is luck. Hormones can do fucked up things to your body - mine don't mess with my weight, but they mess with my brain, my mental state, my body odor, my sex drive, etc.
consider for a minute that what worked for you isn't going to work for everyone else and that maybe, just maybe, there is more to it than "eat less, workout more."

[LauraMoser]

Dec 5, 2012 11:58:28 GMT -5 kimibrighteyes said:

I'm so surprised that there are so many posters that know so much about the risks and benefits of the different types of bariatric surgery that they are able to decide whether this woman needs it or not. I didn't realize how much good medical knowledge you all had about this very specialized area. (sarcasm)

You can't tell whether a patient needs surgery just by their size. Their comorbidities play a huge amount in this. As well, the studies that are available suggest that outcomes are better for pregnancies in women after surgery than before, especially with respect to diabetes and hypertension.

I have to agree with you. I saw the original OP before it was deleted and kind of side eyed it. And I like everyone here, so its nothing against the OPer, just the general opinion that everyone (not just posters here) seem to have about the surgery.

That being said, I know quite a few people IRL who have had WLS and have also had varying degrees of success. My mom had the bypass about 2002, and while she had pretty immediate success, it wasn't long lasting. She is now a similar size to what she was pre surgery. She has also had to have the bypass redone, as she had complications about two years ago involving a blockage that was a result of the surgery. Basically, she followed the dr's orders for a while, then decided to just start eating whatever again. Yes, eating the wrong things makes her feel like crap, but not enough to keep her from eating it at all.

On the other hand, my aunt had the bypass about two years ago I believe. She's doing phenomenal with it. She has lost quite a bit of weight, and it was definitely just a tool in her lifestyle change, not the cure. I'm very proud of what she has done with it. Conversely to my mom, she follows the dr's orders closely, and has very good self discipline.

I am obese myself, and my doc has actually recommended the bypass for me on multiple occasions now. I cannot bring myself to have it done at this point. To me, seeing what my mom has been through, and what she still goes through, I just think there are too many risks for me to be comfortable with it. I'm not even 30 yet, I don't want to give myself the lifetime full of restrictions like that. I have lost a significant amount of weight before the old fashioned way and I know I can do it again.

WLS is so common place now though. Back when my mom had it done, she had to go through a whole approval process for her insurance to cover it. There was also probably close to a year's worth of pre-op protocol that she had to go through involving dieting, psych eval, physical eval, etc. It was not a quick and easy process like it seems to be now.

WLS isn't for everyone. And while I can understand why some people think you're taking the easy way out, I can assure its not. And WLS won't work unless you make it work. It is just as much work, if not more, than regular old dieting. WLS has a stigma associated with it, and that stigma tends to be that its the easy way out, when in reality its not.

I'll step off my soapbox now. This is a topic that I easily get riled up about, lol. So in short, try not to judge, for you very likely don't know their whole story.

[Roc A Bee]

Dec 5, 2012 15:11:02 GMT -5 Kore said:

Dec 5, 2012 15:01:32 GMT -5 runblondie26 said:

Two of my coworkers had bypass surgery 6 years ago (our insurance used to cover it). They both lost over 100lbs, but now are obese again. They say they wish they'd gotten lap band, since they were able to stretch out their stomachs and gain the weight back again.

With so many stories like this, I don't understand why more people (not accusing you, RB) refuse to acknowledge that perhaps obesity isn't simply a matter of willpower. Weight loss has an abysmally high failure rate. A lot of body processes are hormonally driven, including the compulsion to eat. Hormones affect people differently. We aren't all wired the same, and genetics has a lot to do with it. I can't use willpower to make myself shorter, or my hair blonde instead of brown. It's really fucking hard to ignore the hormones that send signals to my brain. Fat people are not lazy any more than thin people are. There are tons of lazy skinny people; they're just lucky to have skinny genes.

www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/fat-officially-incurable-according-to-science/

Oh god that was depressing. I have been over weight my entire life. Since April I've lost a little over 40 pounds. I would like to lose at least 40 more, and I would still be considered overweight at that point. I know that thinking about diet and exercise will be a part of my life forever.

[mudslide]

Dec 5, 2012 11:49:21 GMT -5 So_Fetch said:

I'm with you. I secretly (or not so secretly) take pleasure when people gain the weight back. Everyone I've dealt with that's had wls always give advice on eating healthy and what they learned...which is just annoying since what they really learned is that they can't eat anything bigger than a pea or they will throw up.

You are a truly disgusting person

[pitterwoo]

Dec 6, 2012 1:07:29 GMT -5 mudslide said:

Dec 5, 2012 11:49:21 GMT -5 So_Fetch said:

I'm with you. I secretly (or not so secretly) take pleasure when people gain the weight back. Everyone I've dealt with that's had wls always give advice on eating healthy and what they learned...which is just annoying since what they really learned is that they can't eat anything bigger than a pea or they will throw up.

You are a truly disgusting person

I don't want to defend those comments- at. all. But I think I'm just tired of it being indignation day on the board today. Yes, that was a super nasty thing to think and to say, but really it's not that uncommon. I hear all the time from people who have issues with friends a family urging them to eat junk food, telling them that "you're skinny enough now, you can stop this". Bottom line is that a lot of people aren't excited for others to lose weight.

[mudslide]

Dec 6, 2012 1:49:43 GMT -5 pitterwoo said:

Dec 6, 2012 1:07:29 GMT -5 mudslide said:

You are a truly disgusting person

I don't want to defend those comments- at. all. But I think I'm just tired of it being indignation day on the board today. Yes, that was a super nasty thing to think and to say, but really it's not that uncommon. I hear all the time from people who have issues with friends a family urging them to eat junk food, telling them that "you're skinny enough now, you can stop this". Bottom line is that a lot of people aren't excited for others to lose weight.

What does that have to do with rejoicing in someone's defeat? Sure there are other people out there who feel the same but that doesn't make this poster any less disgusting.

In my mind this is like saying I'm glad your IVF failed. I totally love when that happens. Or so glad this person lost their battle with cancer.

I'm not a regular on mm so I have no idea what you're talking about an indignation day.

No matter how many people feel the same it doesn't change the fact that each one is disgusting.

[pitterwoo]

I didn't defend what she said. I don't agree with her and I don't feel that way. I was just bringing another point to this whole discussion about difficulty with weight loss because it is common that others are basically rooting for your failure.

[Deleted]

Dec 5, 2012 12:38:49 GMT -5 aspentosh said:

I am judging based on what OP said.

She's a yo-yo dieter. To me, that means she doesn't have the drive/energy/ability/desire to find and stick with a diet that works. If she doesn't find a diet that works, she needs to try adding in exercise. If that doesn't work, she needs to see a doctor that might diagnose a true issues (for example: hypothyroid).

To me it seems like she is taking the quick and easier (not easy) way out.

I would be willing to be every single person qualifying for gastric bypass is a yo-yo dieter.

Seriously this is just such a naive statement. Very very few people are able to lose a large amount of weight through diet and exercise and keep it off. Don't you think a doctor would have tested for metabolic issues?

[aspentosh]

Dec 6, 2012 8:58:29 GMT -5 @kcpokergal said:

Dec 5, 2012 12:38:49 GMT -5 aspentosh said:

I am judging based on what OP said.

She's a yo-yo dieter. To me, that means she doesn't have the drive/energy/ability/desire to find and stick with a diet that works. If she doesn't find a diet that works, she needs to try adding in exercise. If that doesn't work, she needs to see a doctor that might diagnose a true issues (for example: hypothyroid).

To me it seems like she is taking the quick and easier (not easy) way out.

I would be willing to be every single person qualifying for gastric bypass is a yo-yo dieter.

Seriously this is just such a naive statement. Very very few people are able to lose a large amount of weight through diet and exercise and keep it off. Don't you think a doctor would have tested for metabolic issues?

Please point out where I said that.

[Deleted]

Dec 5, 2012 22:11:08 GMT -5 ijack said:

Bibliophile, I think it's really easy for you to spew stuff like that because it worked for you. It's a proven fact that someone who is 175# after losing 100lbs has to eat less and exercise more than someone who is "normally" 175 (normal isn't the word I want to use, but I can't think right now. Basically someone who didn't lose a lot of weight to get to that weight). It's not just the 175 person compared to themselves at 275 - when you've been overweight your body is different.
It's awesome that you've been lucky enough to see changes through diet and exercise, I have as well - and I realize a lot of it really is luck. Hormones can do fucked up things to your body - mine don't mess with my weight, but they mess with my brain, my mental state, my body odor, my sex drive, etc.
consider for a minute that what worked for you isn't going to work for everyone else and that maybe, just maybe, there is more to it than "eat less, workout more."

Did you even read her response in full? She said eating less and working out more was what worked for her and some people do have legitimate issues that prevent them from losing weight, but the cracked.com article is a load of bullshit. Holy attacking someone and putting words in their mouth.

Since when did cracked.com become a reputable source for medical information?

[Deleted]

I think I just find the judging of someone's medical procedure without all the facts to be icky in general.

Imagine the flames that would erupt if someone came on here and posted about how she judged her friend for having an abortion. About 3 people would agree with her, and everyone else would freak the fuck out about how all this judgment is unwarranted.

We've regularly discussed mental illness on this board. Imagine the uproar if a poseter posted that a friend was taking the "easier" way out by taking meds for depression.

But add a fattie into the equation, and everyone is suddenly a fucking expert. It's as if doctors just go to school for shits and giggles. Apparently, as long as you know some people who've had the procedure and read a few things on the Internet, you're qualified to determine when a procedure is or is not appropriate.

[Deleted]

Dec 6, 2012 9:25:42 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

I think I just find the judging of someone's medical procedure without all the facts to be icky in general.

Imagine the flames that would erupt if someone came on here and posted about how she judged her friend for having an abortion. About 3 people would agree with her, and everyone else would freak the fuck out about how all this judgment is unwarranted.

We've regularly discussed mental illness on this board. Imagine the uproar if a poseter posted that a friend was taking the "easier" way out by taking meds for depression.

But add a fattie into the equation, and everyone is suddenly a fucking expert. It's as if doctors just go to school for shits and giggles. Apparently, as long as you know some people who've had the procedure and read a few things on the Internet, you're qualified to determine when a procedure is or is not appropriate.

favorite.

[Deleted]

Dec 6, 2012 9:23:04 GMT -5 papiercherri said:

Dec 5, 2012 22:11:08 GMT -5 ijack said:

Bibliophile, I think it's really easy for you to spew stuff like that because it worked for you. It's a proven fact that someone who is 175# after losing 100lbs has to eat less and exercise more than someone who is "normally" 175 (normal isn't the word I want to use, but I can't think right now. Basically someone who didn't lose a lot of weight to get to that weight). It's not just the 175 person compared to themselves at 275 - when you've been overweight your body is different.
It's awesome that you've been lucky enough to see changes through diet and exercise, I have as well - and I realize a lot of it really is luck. Hormones can do fucked up things to your body - mine don't mess with my weight, but they mess with my brain, my mental state, my body odor, my sex drive, etc.
consider for a minute that what worked for you isn't going to work for everyone else and that maybe, just maybe, there is more to it than "eat less, workout more."

Did you even read her response in full? She said eating less and working out more was what worked for her and some people do have legitimate issues that prevent them from losing weight, but the cracked.com article is a load of bullshit. Holy attacking someone and putting words in their mouth.

Since when did cracked.com become a reputable source for medical information?

How about the NYT then?

www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

No, well, will the National Center for Biotechnology Information be more reputable?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21117971

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421028/

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1580453

Maybe the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition will suit then.

ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full

[Deleted]

Dec 6, 2012 9:50:15 GMT -5 @ameliapond said:

Dec 6, 2012 9:23:04 GMT -5 papiercherri said:

Did you even read her response in full? She said eating less and working out more was what worked for her and some people do have legitimate issues that prevent them from losing weight, but the cracked.com article is a load of bullshit. Holy attacking someone and putting words in their mouth.

Since when did cracked.com become a reputable source for medical information?

How about the NYT then?

www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

No, well, will the National Center for Biotechnology Information be more reputable?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21117971

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1421028/

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1580453

Maybe the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition will suit then.

ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full

Actually, yes, those will suit, since none of them practically say "you'll always be fat unless you become a crazy obsessive person, so don't even try to lose weight!"

This thread is such a mixed bag of nonsense, from the fat shaming, to the high horses, to the insane amount of defensiveness some people are taking to anyone who ever says someone might just be a fatty because of something besides a medical condition. Jesus Christ.

[Deleted]

Dec 6, 2012 9:45:51 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

Dec 6, 2012 9:25:42 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

I think I just find the judging of someone's medical procedure without all the facts to be icky in general.

Imagine the flames that would erupt if someone came on here and posted about how she judged her friend for having an abortion. About 3 people would agree with her, and everyone else would freak the fuck out about how all this judgment is unwarranted.

We've regularly discussed mental illness on this board. Imagine the uproar if a poseter posted that a friend was taking the "easier" way out by taking meds for depression.

But add a fattie into the equation, and everyone is suddenly a fucking expert. It's as if doctors just go to school for shits and giggles. Apparently, as long as you know some people who've had the procedure and read a few things on the Internet, you're qualified to determine when a procedure is or is not appropriate.

favorite.

:Y: Dr. Googles suck.

[Deleted]

Spenjamins and I agree on something.

The Mayans were right. The world really is ending this year.

[treedimensional]

Dec 5, 2012 12:04:05 GMT -5 kimibrighteyes said:

Dec 5, 2012 11:49:21 GMT -5 So_Fetch said:

I'm with you. I secretly (or not so secretly) take pleasure when people gain the weight back.

You know what, this is a disgusting statement.

Yes it is.
Why would anyone rejoice in such a horribly tragic outcome?
That's like saying "I'm secretly glad when the cancer metasticizes after a double mastectomy" or "I'm so glad when an addict relapses after rehab and starts using again".
Obesity is life threatening. People who undergo WLS are desperate to save their lives. It's extremely unfortunate that some of them become obese again.
What a jerk.

[LoveTrains]

Dec 6, 2012 9:23:04 GMT -5 papiercherri said:

Since when did cracked.com become a reputable source for medical information?

Did you bother to click on the sources for the cracked.com piece? Most of them were reputable.

Seriously, I just want to say a big fuck you to everyone who hates on fatties. I don't know why I bother opening these threads anymore.

I've said it before and I will say it again, fatties seem to be the only group left in this country where it is still ok to ridicule them for how they look or make assumptions about them based on their physical appearance.

[Kore]

Uhh...the cracked article was intended to be TIC. Not a "reputable source." It has been confirmed in countless real studies, though. People can lose weight, but almost nobody keeps it off.