Poll about charity

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 9:54:51 GMT -5 jigsy said:

I don't judge anyone who does or doesn't give to charity...sometimes people just haven't found the right one for them. But I do feel like it makes a life fuller when you are helping other people. I don't think there is a magic percentage, I think it is better when someone finds a cause the love, and gives what they feel.
For example, I want to donate to a charity where they require a sponsor for a woman for a war torn country. The cost will be $30/month to sponsor one woman. Once I am working full-time, that will be a very small portion of our overall monthly income, and I suppose I could always give more, but at least it is something.

To answer your question...I am pretty much useless, lol.

jigsy-Can you provide a link to this charity? It is a cause I would be interested in supporting. thanks!

[cookies]

I think a more fair percentage would be that of a person's discretionary income. To say you should contribute x% of your net income is unfair because you don't know what their expenses are like.

If someone's got a lot of slush money left over after all the bills are paid, then yeah... maybe they should consider giving more to charity. Unfortunately, that isn't the case with a lot of people.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 10:33:37 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

To me tithe =/= giving to charity.

Why not? I think most churches use a good percentage of their money to help the needy, and I think the rest mostly goes to help people too. I guess some of it goes to administrative costs, building upkeep, whatever, but I think it counts.

(note: I don't go to church nor do I tithe so that's my unbiased opinion)

[winnied]

Dec 21, 2012 10:33:37 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

To me tithe =/= giving to charity.

^o)

We specifically chose our churches based on their community outreach. One of our churches is actually very old and ugly. They do not put money towards glamorizing the church at all and instead are the largest contributor to our city's food bank. That's just one example of the work they do.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 10:56:45 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

Dec 21, 2012 10:33:37 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

To me tithe =/= giving to charity.

Why not? I think most churches use a good percentage of their money to help the needy, and I think the rest mostly goes to help people too. I guess some of it goes to administrative costs, building upkeep, whatever, but I think it counts.

(note: I don't go to church nor do I tithe so that's my unbiased opinion)

Not that you asked me, but...

To me, a large part is that you're paying for a service that you receive. Sure, some of the money is filtered to charities, but also you're paying for the administrative costs, upkeep, etc. so that you can receive spiritual services. I actually don't think that these donations should be tax-deductible to the extent that they cover admin and upkeep rather than money that gets sent on to charity. (For all I know though, maybe it isn't deductible?)

Also, there's something more compulsory about it than with other charitable giving.

[Deleted]

I don't judge the amount, although I do judge a little if they dont give ANYTHING.

I certainly think 10% is well above and beyond. We do not give near 10% and I'm fine with it. But, the amount we give is probably more than 10% of the average American's salary, so...

[mrshandy]

I don't judge too much about charity.

I'll confess we don't give much. But we're saving for a house and things really are tight. We make a good income, but we don't seem to have too much wiggle room. We don't spent much on eating out, clothes, frivolous spending.

I would be more inclined to judge people that spend like some obscene amount on clothes or eating out and give bubkiss to charity. But if you're spending your money on legit stuff, then I wouldn't judge at all.

I would like to volunteer more when I somehow find that magical thing called time. I've done that in the past and to me that is more rewarding than giving a certain amount.

[jigsy]

Dec 21, 2012 10:53:09 GMT -5 @missy1 said:

Dec 21, 2012 9:54:51 GMT -5 jigsy said:

I don't judge anyone who does or doesn't give to charity...sometimes people just haven't found the right one for them. But I do feel like it makes a life fuller when you are helping other people. I don't think there is a magic percentage, I think it is better when someone finds a cause the love, and gives what they feel.
For example, I want to donate to a charity where they require a sponsor for a woman for a war torn country. The cost will be $30/month to sponsor one woman. Once I am working full-time, that will be a very small portion of our overall monthly income, and I suppose I could always give more, but at least it is something.

To answer your question...I am pretty much useless, lol.

jigsy-Can you provide a link to this charity? It is a cause I would be interested in supporting. thanks!

It's a great charity that allows personal connection to the woman you are actually helping!
womenforwomen.org

[theintended]

I think budget posts (or month to month or even year to year snapshots) are not always the best representation of people's commitment to giving. Some people give less and save more early in life so they can be generous on a larger scale later on.

[Deleted]

Even though I don't tithe and I'm the first to tell people in dire straights to cut tithes from their budgets, i think its silly to argue giving to a Church is not charity. All charities have administrative costs.

[ssmjlm]

I have an issue with the way many organized religions use the money and the idea that you have to give. I also don't agree with many religions stances on social issues. But I have that same issue with places like the salvation army.

Why not just give to the food bank directly.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:09:01 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

I have an issue with the way many organized religions use the money and the idea that you have to give. I also don't agree with many religions stances on social issues. But I have that same issue with places like the salvation army.

Why not just give to the food bank directly.

They dont HAVE to give. They can attend a different church that doesn't require a tithe.

There are a million charities I disagree with. Focus on the Family, for instance. It doesn't make them less of a charity- they still do good work for a certain set of people, even though they use a lot of their money for pure evil.

[chessie]

Dec 21, 2012 10:33:37 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

To me tithe =/= giving to charity.

I tend to agree, and knowing where the budget mainly went to for my old church, nice houses, cars, vacations, etc for the priests, was not going to where it needed to be.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:08:09 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

Even though I don't tithe and I'm the first to tell people in dire straights to cut tithes from their budgets, i think its silly to argue giving to a Church is not charity. All charities have administrative costs.

But it's a little different.

Of course the animal shelters (for example) we give to have administrative costs. But we gain nothing from those costs (note: we did not get our cats from the shelters we donate to on a regular basis). The dogs and kitties who need homes benefit, but we don't. (And in fact, when we adopted our cats, the adoption fee was not at all tax deductible because we got something in exchange for it).

If you give money to the church you attend, in exchange you get to attend services (and in some cases, other events), which are probably something that is very valuable to you. Giving money to a church is certainly a good thing, but I think it is a little different from giving money to a charitable organization that will not give you anything but warm feelings in return.

[cilantro]

However much one damn well feels like.

And I judge the crap out of posters who point that out to others in their budget. I think it's their way of trying to show off how important charitable giving is to them.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:14:45 GMT -5 v said:

Dec 21, 2012 11:08:09 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

Even though I don't tithe and I'm the first to tell people in dire straights to cut tithes from their budgets, i think its silly to argue giving to a Church is not charity. All charities have administrative costs.

But it's a little different.

Of course the animal shelters (for example) we give to have administrative costs. But we gain nothing from those costs (note: we did not get our cats from the shelters we donate to on a regular basis). The dogs and kitties who need homes benefit, but we don't. (And in fact, when we adopted our cats, the adoption fee was not at all tax deductible because we got something in exchange for it).

If you give money to the church you attend, in exchange you get to attend services (and in some cases, other events), which are probably something that is very valuable to you. Giving money to a church is certainly a good thing, but I think it is a little different from giving money to a charitable organization that will not give you anything but warm feelings in return.

I fail to see the difference, honestly. People give because it makes them feel better about themselves. That's the benefit, and its the same whether they give to a church or give to save puppies.

What about attending a charitable fundraiser? Isn't that a benefit? Or getting a gift when you make $X donation? I made a donation to a local NPR music station and got a Bruce Springsteen cd. That made me really happy and I got a physical benefit.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:14:45 GMT -5 v said:

Dec 21, 2012 11:08:09 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

Even though I don't tithe and I'm the first to tell people in dire straights to cut tithes from their budgets, i think its silly to argue giving to a Church is not charity. All charities have administrative costs.

But it's a little different.

Of course the animal shelters (for example) we give to have administrative costs. But we gain nothing from those costs (note: we did not get our cats from the shelters we donate to on a regular basis). The dogs and kitties who need homes benefit, but we don't. (And in fact, when we adopted our cats, the adoption fee was not at all tax deductible because we got something in exchange for it).

If you give money to the church you attend, in exchange you get to attend services (and in some cases, other events), which are probably something that is very valuable to you. Giving money to a church is certainly a good thing, but I think it is a little different from giving money to a charitable organization that will not give you anything but warm feelings in return.

There are different ways to give to a religiously affiliated organization though. In our case we do give money when the collection basket is passed around at services (which I really do believe is given to needy parishoners, say what you will). But we give the bulk to our local Catholic Charities which provide services to people with disabilities and HIV/AIDS.

It's funny to me that people are differentiating between religious and secular charities because I'm an atheist and the only reason I support my H in going to church is because of all the good that I know they do. If you take the supernatural element out of it, it's basically all about doing well unto others, especially those needier than you.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:18:47 GMT -5 @iheartcosmos said:

Dec 21, 2012 11:14:45 GMT -5 v said:

But it's a little different.

Of course the animal shelters (for example) we give to have administrative costs. But we gain nothing from those costs (note: we did not get our cats from the shelters we donate to on a regular basis). The dogs and kitties who need homes benefit, but we don't. (And in fact, when we adopted our cats, the adoption fee was not at all tax deductible because we got something in exchange for it).

If you give money to the church you attend, in exchange you get to attend services (and in some cases, other events), which are probably something that is very valuable to you. Giving money to a church is certainly a good thing, but I think it is a little different from giving money to a charitable organization that will not give you anything but warm feelings in return.

I fail to see the difference, honestly. People give because it makes them feel better about themselves. That's the benefit, and its the same whether they give to a church or give to save puppies.

What about attending a charitable fundraiser? Isn't that a benefit? Or getting a gift when you make $X donation? I made a donation to a local NPR music station and got a Bruce Springsteen cd. That made me really happy and I got a physical benefit.

If you attend a charitable fundraiser, you do not get to deduct the part of the ticket fee that relates to your food and drinks and such. That's why the receipts always say things like "$250 ($100 tax deductible)." You only deduct the part that actually goes to helping the charity, because the rest isn't charity -- it is goods and services that you received. If you got a CD in exchange for donating $x, the amount you can deduct from your taxes is reduced by the value of the CD. And I think that's right, and reflective of how I view what charity is. Charity is helping others, not helping myself.

If you apply the same logic to church, I think that the part that gets filtered to the needy or whatever absolutely should be deductible and considered real charity, but to the extent that you're getting things in return, that part isn't charity to me.

And since you get warm and fuzzy feelings with giving money to the church or to other organizations, I think we can take warm and fuzzy feelings out of the equation because they're a constant.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:25:15 GMT -5 @lcap said:

Dec 21, 2012 11:14:45 GMT -5 v said:

But it's a little different.

Of course the animal shelters (for example) we give to have administrative costs. But we gain nothing from those costs (note: we did not get our cats from the shelters we donate to on a regular basis). The dogs and kitties who need homes benefit, but we don't. (And in fact, when we adopted our cats, the adoption fee was not at all tax deductible because we got something in exchange for it).

If you give money to the church you attend, in exchange you get to attend services (and in some cases, other events), which are probably something that is very valuable to you. Giving money to a church is certainly a good thing, but I think it is a little different from giving money to a charitable organization that will not give you anything but warm feelings in return.

There are different ways to give to a religiously affiliated organization though. In our case we do give money when the collection basket is passed around at services (which I really do believe is given to needy parishoners, say what you will). But we give the bulk to our local Catholic Charities which provide services to people with disabilities and HIV/AIDS.

It's funny to me that people are differentiating between religious and secular charities because I'm an atheist and the only reason I support my H in going to church is because of all the good that I know they do. If you take the supernatural element out of it, it's basically all about doing well unto others, especially those needier than you.

Some part of the money that parishes absolutely is given to the needy, but some part is paying for the electricity. (My in-laws are in charge of counting the collections at their church, so I've talked to them at length about how budgets work -- it is kind of interesting).

Giving money to a religiously-affiliated charity like Catholic Charities is exactly like giving money to the ASPCA to me. It isn't the religious affiliation that makes church donations less charitable to me. It is the services you get in exchange for your donation that carry the day for me -- so giving money to the parish you attend is more like going to a benefit to me, as part of the money is going to things that I get, and part is going to help others. The part that I get isn't charity.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:30:24 GMT -5 v said:

Dec 21, 2012 11:25:15 GMT -5 @lcap said:

There are different ways to give to a religiously affiliated organization though. In our case we do give money when the collection basket is passed around at services (which I really do believe is given to needy parishoners, say what you will). But we give the bulk to our local Catholic Charities which provide services to people with disabilities and HIV/AIDS.

It's funny to me that people are differentiating between religious and secular charities because I'm an atheist and the only reason I support my H in going to church is because of all the good that I know they do. If you take the supernatural element out of it, it's basically all about doing well unto others, especially those needier than you.

Some part of the money that parishes absolutely is given to the needy, but some part is paying for the electricity. (My in-laws are in charge of counting the collections at their church, so I've talked to them at length about how budgets work -- it is kind of interesting).

Giving money to a religiously-affiliated charity like Catholic Charities is exactly like giving money to the ASPCA to me. It isn't the religious affiliation that makes church donations less charitable to me. It is the services you get in exchange for your donation that carry the day for me -- so giving money to the parish you attend is more like going to a benefit to me, as part of the money is going to things that I get, and part is going to help others. The part that I get isn't charity.

I get what you're saying. I guess my point was that when a poster says "we tithe 10%" and everyone condemns her as not really giving to charity, just supporting her church, she might mean that she is giving money to the collection basket and/or she might mean that she's giving to an organization like Catholic Charities.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:02:32 GMT -5 v said:

Dec 21, 2012 10:56:45 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

Why not? I think most churches use a good percentage of their money to help the needy, and I think the rest mostly goes to help people too. I guess some of it goes to administrative costs, building upkeep, whatever, but I think it counts.

(note: I don't go to church nor do I tithe so that's my unbiased opinion)

Not that you asked me, but...

To me, a large part is that you're paying for a service that you receive. Sure, some of the money is filtered to charities, but also you're paying for the administrative costs, upkeep, etc. so that you can receive spiritual services. I actually don't think that these donations should be tax-deductible to the extent that they cover admin and upkeep rather than money that gets sent on to charity. (For all I know though, maybe it isn't deductible?)

Also, there's something more compulsory about it than with other charitable giving.

I guess I just don't see it that way. To me, religion is something that provides people with comfort, especially during hard times. For every wealthy or semi well off person who tithes, there are probably many sick, poor, or otherwise needy people who attend and don't pay anything but are able to find comfort in God and in the church community. I am glad that there are those who can afford to subsidize the church experience of those who can't afford to. While it is not something everyone in the general public benefits from, I do think religion has an important place in society and in many peoples' lives and I'm glad that others provide the money so that people can utilize religion as they need to.

I'll also add that most of the places we donate to/volunteer for are places that are close to our hearts specifically because we either indirectly benefit from them now OR in the future. I give to a food bank because I am grateful I have enough to eat and hopeful that if I ever fall on hard times, a resource like that will exist to help me in return. I give to Planned Parenthood because I took advantage of their services in the past. I give to the American Cancer Society because they have found life saving medical procedures that have kept my mom alive and will likely save my life or someone else's life in the future when we get cancer. Etc. Nothing we give to is completely unselfish. Even the animal shelter example - those shelters keep animals off the streets and provided me with one of my dogs. I will give back because I'm grateful someone rescued my sweet dog and someone will rescue and support my future dogs until I get them.

I just think any giving is giving and as long as someone (who can afford to) is doing something to provide back to the community/others, I respect that.

[Deleted]

I agree with Cosmos. Also, I believe it's different for some Jewish congregations, but at least for most Christian churches I've ever been a part of, you don't "get to attend" services or other events in exchange for donating money. You attend whatever and whenever you want. I gave very little to my church in 2011, and I was still asked to run for the lay board of directors.

You can't even lump all churches together. My mom attends a church with a HUGE staff with enormous overhead. My church has ONE full-time employee, a handful of part-time employees, and a bunch of volunteers.

Also, many churches provide assistance and services to the community you may not know about. Some churches offer burial services for the indigent. Some provide direct cash assistance to people who call asking for it - handing that out is actually part of my mom's job. Some churches provide no- or low-cost Mother's Day Out programs that are open to the whole community. Some churches hold festivals and concerts, many of which are free or cheap to attend, and are also open to the whole community.

If you don't want to give to a church, fine. But religious organizations (of all stripes) do things beyond provide services to their tithing members.

[Deleted]

I just don't understand how you separate out the whole "paying for the electricity" part, v. There is a meal program in Milwaukee that is run primarily out of parish halls. Yes, you can donate directly to that meal program. BUT by donating to the individual parishes, church members are helping to pay the electric bill for the building, which thus enables that meal program to operate at that site. If nobody ever gave to the parish and only gave to the meal program, the church would either a) not be able to host the meal program, or b) have to charge the meal program rent to use the space.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:36:10 GMT -5 @buckybells said:

I'll also add that most of the places we donate to/volunteer for are places that are close to our hearts specifically because we either indirectly benefit from them now OR in the future.

This is true for me as well. We didn't start giving large sums of money until I thought my son might have a condition that our organization services. He doesn't but I remember very well how upset and overwhelmed and just plain sad I felt. So it makes me want to reach out to people who are going through that. I don't know, maybe that makes it less charitable.

[whitepicketfence]

I don't know that there is a "right" amount. This is actually something I struggle with.

We donate a fairly small percentage of our income to charity although we do have a line item in our monthly budget for it. I wish we could give more but until we pay off more of our debt or I go back to work, this is all we can afford for now. I do try to volunteer where I can at our church but I've been slacking off in that regard recently.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:09:01 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

I have an issue with the way many organized religions use the money and the idea that you have to give. I also don't agree with many religions stances on social issues. But I have that same issue with places like the salvation army.

You know the Salvation Army is a church, right?

We count our church giving as charity. It's not required.

[Deleted]

Dec 21, 2012 11:42:09 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

I just don't understand how you separate out the whole "paying for the electricity" part, v. There is a meal program in Milwaukee that is run primarily out of parish halls. Yes, you can donate directly to that meal program. BUT by donating to the individual parishes, church members are helping to pay the electric bill for the building, which thus enables that meal program to operate at that site. If nobody ever gave to the parish and only gave to the meal program, the church would either a) not be able to host the meal program, or b) have to charge the meal program rent to use the space.

I'm not saying that these things are black and white or easy to quantify. To the extent that church resources (or any sort) are being used to provide a meal program to the needy, or to provide spiritual services to those who can't afford to donate, I see that as charitable. But to the extent my donation is paying for my program and my communion wafer and wine and coffee and my share of the priest's living costs and the mortgage and the electricity and the water I use there and such, I see it as different.

Much like the amount that we reimbursed the shelter for the kitties' upkeep and fixing and vaccinations before we got them isn't charitable because we got fixed, fed, vaccinated kitties out of it...

ETA: I also don't feel that my membership to the Metropolitan Museum of Art is charitable, because I receive visits in return for what I spend (although I could go for free anyway because the admission fee is merely a suggested donation anyway).

[winnied]

Dec 21, 2012 11:09:01 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

I have an issue with the way many organized religions use the money and the idea that you have to give. I also don't agree with many religions stances on social issues. But I have that same issue with places like the salvation army.

Why not just give to the food bank directly.

So it's because you don't like churches/organized religions. That's a very large blanket statement to make.

FWIW, I don't have to tithe. I don't have to give jack to my church, I choose to. I can still go to any service, even any activity I want w/o paying. The money I donate supports the bare bones admin costs of my church. *edit* That is to say, part of what I donate goes toward the bare bones admin costs of the church. Most goes toward feeding the poor and support the outcasts of our city/community.

I don't give to the food bank directly because I want my church, the people in my community of faith, to practice charity and generosity. I want them to be kind and to be Christians in practice. I want people, like yourself, to know that organized religions do good work for the sake of doing good work.

[Deleted]

My church donation also keeps the lights on and wafers supplied for the cheap asses that don't pay their way. Not only can you not separate out what is charitable enough to "count", you can't take away the fact that someone has to pay the bills, but not all are able or willing to do so.

Regardless, I don't think charity needs to be ranked as "kind of good" or "really good" or "totally altruistic and superior". All giving, of time, money, and talent, is awesome.

[Deleted]

I think you just don't like religion, v. That's OK, but own it.

Your parsing of this really makes no sense.