***possible spoilers. But seriously it was written in 1985. Get over it*********
This is one of my all-time favorite books. I wrote a paper about it in 11th grade english that ended up being a huge fucking clusterfuck thanks to my wackadoodle teacher.
Movie set to come out Nov 2013. Have you guys looked at the casting? Any thoughts?
I've never seen anything with Asa Butterfield in it. Hugo is on netflix instant though, so I might watch it to see what I think of him as Ender.
I love Abigail Breslin as Valentine and Harrison Ford as Graff. not sure on Hailey Steinfield as Petra.
Also can we all just hold hands and commiserate that Orson Scott Card is a total bastard who travels around the country making speeches against LGBT equality? Asshole. When I found that out I vowed not to buy any of this books anymore (which sucks because while I'd read them all to that point, I didn't own all of them). Now I have to decide if I'm willing to watch the movie. This is so much worse than chick fil a.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 2, 2013 16:16:24 GMT -5
I didn't know that about him. We read ender's game for my book club a few months ago. It was interesting to see how many hated it. I enjoyed it, thought it was a quick read, wasn't in the least surprised by the twist, but I'm not sure I picture it as a movie especially consideing how old Abigail Brenlin looks now.
You should watch Hugo. Even though I saw it on a flight, I really liked it.
People have talked about making it into a movie for ages. I think the powers that be think it could be the new Harry Potter? I think they are mistaken though.
What did the people who hated it have to say about it?
My teacher thought that I needed counseling because I loved it and identified with Ender. She thought he was an evil little shit or something.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 2, 2013 16:22:14 GMT -5
I thought of him as about 9, too. Doesn't he start at 6? It's only a few years from beginning to end IIRC.
It's not as magical as Harry Potter. People loved those books and movies because they created an entirely different world. Ender's is just dystopian and sci fi.
I also read this book in high school. But I always read it with Ender being grade-school aged. Like, kind of a prodigy. I mean, I guess a 14 year old could be a prodigy, too... I just always thought of him as being about 9 or so.
But it's been a long time since I read it so my thought is really just, YEAAA!!! A movie! I remember I loved the book. I'm not usually a big fan of the SF stuff, but I really did like this book. Isn't it a trilogy?
yes. with spinoffs. and I think you're right that ender is supposed to be younger than they've cast him. I think it's like how they aged up all the kids in the Game of Thrones so as not to disturb the masses.
I thought of him as about 9, too. Doesn't he start at 6? It's only a few years from beginning to end IIRC.
It's not as magical as Harry Potter. People loved those books and movies because they created an entirely different world. Ender's is just dystopian and sci fi.
agreed. I guess the Hunger Games is the better comparison. I still don't think Ender's Game is going to have as wide of an appeal. The books have been around for a long time now and I don't think they're going to suddenly become breakout popular with the current crop of kids.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 2, 2013 16:27:09 GMT -5
He was angry about being a pawn. I never saw him as evil. He was just a prodigy with a tactical mind. Plus, at the end, doesn't he go all compassionate (um, hard to refer to that scene without spoilers)? I never read the other books.
... Also can we all just hold hands and commiserate that Orson Scott Card is a total bastard who travels around the country making speeches against LGBT equality? Asshole. When I found that out I vowed not to buy any of this books anymore (which sucks because while I'd read them all to that point, I didn't own all of them). Now I have to decide if I'm willing to watch the movie. This is so much worse than chick fil a.
I can empathize since I am struggling with similar questions about Card. I've only read Ender's Game and really found it interesting but I don't want to support him.
People have talked about making it into a movie for ages. I think the powers that be think it could be the new Harry Potter? I think they are mistaken though.
What did the people who hated it have to say about it?
My teacher thought that I needed counseling because I loved it and identified with Ender. She thought he was an evil little shit or something.
Doesn't he actually completely reject the authority of his commanders? Admittedly it's been 20 years since I read this book, but I would not have called him evil. Seems to me he rejected the evil around him. I don't want to give away the end, but IIRC, isn't he really pissed when he finds out what he's actually done???
I need to read this book again. Clearly I remember loving it, but can hardly remember the plot line.
Yes, he's totally crushed by what he did.
The next book in the series is about what he does as a grownup, and it's largely to atone for what he's done.
My teacher was insane. She failed me on the paper and then wrote a long long note about how I seemed angry and I should find somebody to talk to about it. I scheduled a time to discuss my grade (i had NEVER failed a paper before) after class and she cried and told me that I reminded her of her dead daughter. About 2 weeks later she had a nervous breakdown and left teaching. So...yeah. Not exactly logical thinking there. but her main problem with ender was that he tried to reject authority. I guess the idea of kids making their own decisions scared the bejesus out of her?
He was angry about being a pawn. I never saw him as evil. He was just a prodigy with a tactical mind. Plus, at the end, doesn't he go all compassionate (um, hard to refer to that scene without spoilers)? I never read the other books.
Ok, spoilers? really? I've added a disclaimer to the OP. But the book is 27 years old.
Spoiler! Romeo and Juliet die at the end!
And yeah, totally goes compassionate. In the following books he ends up reviving the hive queen and helping her reestablish the species.
He was angry about being a pawn. I never saw him as evil. He was just a prodigy with a tactical mind. Plus, at the end, doesn't he go all compassionate (um, hard to refer to that scene without spoilers)? I never read the other books.
Right. This is exactly what I kind of remember. I won't say more than that, but I thought that was what made the book so profound. The themes - authority, childhood, innocence, exploitation, compassion, empathy, wisdom... I mean, I'm sorry that OSC is such a fuckbag because that book is sort of incredible.
Exactly!
And I've added a spoiler alert to the OP just in case.
And re: my english teacher - yeah, at the time I just wanted to smack her. But looking back the poor woman was totally falling apart. I wish I had gone to the head of the department like my BFF tried to convince me to do....she obviously needed help. Maybe her department head could have helped her a bit? I have to imagine her colleagues knew that she wasn't doing well though.
I am unbelievable excited for this move. I've been waiting for it since I was in 4th grade (which is when I read the book for the first time.)
I hate OSC too, but his new book about the first Bugger War (based on the graphic novels, but with more detail) is amazing. Get it from the library if you haven't read it.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 2, 2013 16:44:10 GMT -5
It may be old, but a lot of people haven't read it. I didn't until book club, and more than half there had never even heard of it. I don't think of it as part of cultural awareness like knowing that Anna Karenina dies.
I also read this book in high school. But I always read it with Ender being grade-school aged. Like, kind of a prodigy. I mean, I guess a 14 year old could be a prodigy, too... I just always thought of him as being about 9 or so.
But it's been a long time since I read it so my thought is really just, YEAAA!!! A movie! I remember I loved the book. I'm not usually a big fan of the SF stuff, but I really did like this book. Isn't it a trilogy?
yes. with spinoffs. and I think you're right that ender is supposed to be younger than they've cast him. I think it's like how they aged up all the kids in the Game of Thrones so as not to disturb the masses.
Most of characters are teens by the end of the book. The timeline is about 5 years I think, so Ender would be 11. The cast him as older and compressed the timeline for the movie so that a single actor could play Ender. Besides, most 6 year old actors are crap anyway.
It may be old, but a lot of people haven't read it. I didn't until book club, and more than half there had never even heard of it. I don't think of it as part of cultural awareness like knowing that Anna Karenina dies.
jenni, it's a fast read, so you can do it easily.
I know.
I just have limited patience for spoiler whiners of things that aren't current. This is probably flamey. Or at least would be if I didn't begrudgingly provide spoiler alerts. But I also read recaps for stuff like the current season of Mad Men even though I won't get to watch them till they come out on DVD. Unless it's a M. Night Shamamlamadingdong movie the twist is usually not that important to the enjoyment of the story IMO.
I just have limited patience for spoiler whiners of things that aren't current. This is probably flamey. Or at least would be if I didn't begrudgingly provide spoiler alerts. But I also read recaps for stuff like the current season of Mad Men even though I won't get to watch them till they come out on DVD. Unless it's a M. Night Shamamlamadingdong movie the twist is usually not that important to the enjoyment of the story IMO.
I think the twist in Ender's Game is a real twist though. I mean, it's not a 6th Sense twist, but it's so essential for the story to actually work... I guess what I'm saying is that I think the spoiler alert is well placed and that knowing what Ender ends up doing before you read that part of the book would pretty much ruin that part of the book.
But don't you reread things you love? Isn't it still good the 2nd time around? That's what I don't get about spoilers. If it's good enough to get upset about a spoiler, then it's probably good enough to watch/read twice. And the 2nd time you already know the story...soo.....what are we ruining exactly?
this obviously does not apply to people who never re-read/re-watch. but those people are like aliens to me anyway.
Post by basilosaurus on Jan 2, 2013 17:03:32 GMT -5
I generally don't mind spoilers. I'll read all about tv shows ahead of time. But there is a difference in reading before and after you know a plot twist. Before, you can enjoy the anticipation of trying to figure it out, and after, you can enjoy searching for the clues you didn't notice.
However, as I said, Ender's Game didn't surprise me, so I'm not sure if being spoiled matters. I assumed they were playing for real pretty much the whole time.
I find it amazing that he wrote about the Internet and iPads/tablets before they even existed.
Eh, usenet existed by 1980, and I know we had dial up access through compuserve by the mid-80s if not before. What we do here is basically what usenet did back then.
Tablets were already in existence (although nothing like today of course) in the 80s. They'd been written about by sci-fi novelists for decades before that. People envisioned technology long before the capabilities for it actually existed.
He would have been an early adopter, but he wasn't a nostradamus by any means.
I never thought Ender was in any way not compassionate. He is very logical in the book, and I thought his decisions were mostly based on survival. I certainly never saw him as evil, but he was tricked and lied to for the whole book, and left to fend for himself against incredible odds. At no point does he deliberately set out to harm anyone - I always thought that was kind of the irony of the book. As for the twist, I read that they are giving that away in the movie right at the beginning - if we are talking about the games twist. Not the bugger twist.
It may be old, but a lot of people haven't read it. I didn't until book club, and more than half there had never even heard of it. I don't think of it as part of cultural awareness like knowing that Anna Karenina dies.
jenni, it's a fast read, so you can do it easily.
I am seriously not angry, but I am finding it very humorous that you picked this example. A friend just gave me Anna Karenina and I actually did not realize until your post that she dies. (I understand that it is impossible to avoid spoilers completely for older books, but just wanted to point out the irony.)
i love ender's game. we read it in my child psych class in college and had to write a paper on it outlining/explaining 10 theories/ideas/research we had learned about in class and how they appeared in the book. it was my only perfect 100 in college.
DH and i will often listen to the other books in the series when we have a long car trip since it's one of the few books we both like. last week we listened to Seventh Son by OSC and it was decent. DH liked it more than i did. i listened to Lost Boys once and it was very good, haunting. i feel like i knew that about OSC but didn't know the extent of his actions and it definitely makes me rethink seeing the movie.
It may be old, but a lot of people haven't read it. I didn't until book club, and more than half there had never even heard of it. I don't think of it as part of cultural awareness like knowing that Anna Karenina dies.
jenni, it's a fast read, so you can do it easily.
I am seriously not angry, but I am finding it very humorous that you picked this example. A friend just gave me Anna Karenina and I actually did not realize until your post that she dies. (I understand that it is impossible to avoid spoilers completely for older books, but just wanted to point out the irony.)
I love OSC's books. I've read three Ender books, about to start on my fourth and I rather enjoyed Lost Boys, although I really thought it should have been titled something else as the lost boys were really just a subplot in the character's life story. It was all interesting to read, but odd. Also, very hard to read when you are pg, which I was at the time.
About his beliefs, he's LDS so I expect the more ummm, traditional religious beliefs from him.