I think there are things you aren't thinking about either. Like how he won't be able to go to college while working 80 - 90 hour weeks.
If he continues working for more money, we can save more, which means that he can quit working and go back to college sooner. He will not be working any sort of job like this while going to school. The sooner we save, the sooner he gets to quit and go back to school.
If you worked 100 hours a week, you could save up money much sooner for him to go back to school. Right?
I just want him to be fairly compensated for his work. There is no reason for him to take a pay cut to potentially end up working the same amount of hours. I can't imagine many people here would be willing to take up to a 30% pay cut to pretty much keep the same job.
It sounds like you guys are all over the place with money. I'd set a real budget so you know what you can really afford in terms of his job. But in general, I'd postpone the wedding, get a PT job (you must sit at home a lot if your partner works 100/hr weeks, no?) anything to get him a break.
I just want him to be fairly compensated for his work. There is no reason for him to take a pay cut to potentially end up working the same amount of hours. I can't imagine many people here would be willing to take up to a 30% pay cut to pretty much keep the same job.
Ok. But you're totally missing my point. Your FI is grasping at anything that might be less hours. Your response is, "nah, keep working 100 weeks." Way to share the load.
Post by midnightmare81 on Jan 7, 2013 22:21:08 GMT -5
I see your concern with him working the same hours for less $, but I think that the rest of the reasons SUCK. H is getting out of his current field for the same reasons. He is MISERABLE and HATES the hours he holds. You FI has NO time for anything but work and sleep. How you have any kind of relationship at all is amazing to me. Is there any way to negotiate into his contract that he would only work the 50 hours a week and any time he works overtime he gets to take it off another time instead. I cannot imagine working that many hours, that is NO way of life. I would delay debt payoff DRASTICALLY if it meant less hours. You do not have to go out more just because he is home. I would think you would want to just spend it together sitting at the house being with each other. I think you REALLY need to consider his feelings in this situation. What do you do with your time while he is working all these hours. Maybe you can take up a hobby that can make up the missing $ while making it not feel like extra work. I am sure you can find SOME craft to sell on the side to help with the deficit.
How on earth did you get so far in debt that he has to work two and a half jobs for years while you work one to pay off the debt?
He isn't very good with finances. He has a lot of debt. He also sucks at keeping his spending in control (see Vanilla's post below about him wanting to go overboard with Christmas gifts). Plus we are trying to build savings for him to go back to school plus a wedding. I want to be debt free (other than the house) before anything happens.
I don't see why everyone thinks I can just get a part-time job and he will magically work less hours. I'm not forcing him to work 100 hours a week. His job is. Him getting a promotion isn't a guarantee that he will magically only have to work 50 hours. Heck, that schedule was supposed to start today and he is still working 16 hours today. He still has 6 days to go. Tomorrow will easily be a 20+ hour day. Not off to a good start, huh?
We still get to spend time together every other weekend and some nights. Sometimes i even go to work with him on the weekend if I know for sure that we will be home that night (shhh don't tell management!). He is worried that if I get another job, we really won't be able to spend any time together. You have to figure that some days he may work 22 hours and the next day he only works 6 hours. We get time together. It's not ideal, but it works.
I think suggesting you get a part-time job is more in response to the fact that you say you need the $$ so you can save up for him to get out of this toxic work environment sooner. Regardless of his job situation, you bringing in additional money would help with that, and if it meant getting him out of an industry that demands hours like that sooner, then most would be on board for helping out that way.
You asked if you sound selfish. You do. You can bring in as many extra facts about the situation as you want. The fact remains that if he wants to take this promotion, and he believes that he will get to work fewer hours, then you need to suck it up and be supportive. You've shared your opinion with him, and maybe down the road you'll get to say "I told you so" but for now, this is his decision.
Post by midnightmare81 on Jan 7, 2013 22:43:03 GMT -5
We aren't saying you getting a job will fix the hours, we are saying it will fix the $$$ issue that comes with less hours. As mentioned before, I would stipulate as part of my contract a max amount of hours per week that would be worked and if I went over one week I would get the extra hours off the next. I would POSSIBLY not take the promotion if this was not agreed to, though the supervisory skills would likely transfer regardless of the industry, so I would consider that as well.
As for him not being very good with money, you mention a wedding. Do you really need a wedding SO badly that he has to work those extra hours? Have a small back-yard BBQ type wedding and take the $ you allotted to the wedding and use it for debt payoff. Problem solved. I would also consider taking on SOME student loans if it meant he could work less hours and get away from this life-sucking job sooner...
He should try to negotiate the promotion, using the reasoning that he should make more money for more responsibility. Then he should take the promotion no matter what. Managing other people is an important skill that can translate to a job in any industry. I'm betting he will have at least a tiny bit more control over his schedule. If he still works 100 hrs/week he can go to management again or find another job.
Post by kelseybelsey on Jan 7, 2013 23:36:31 GMT -5
If he wants to stay in this field for life, then he should take the promotion. But, the field sounds miserable (sorry). I would switch fields if working 120 hours per week is the norm.
Post by MadamePresident on Jan 7, 2013 23:44:22 GMT -5
Does being in a salary position mean he would be eligible for a bonus? That might help offset the fact that he will be working a lot of hours and making less. I think you should show him on paper how you figured out how much he would make per hour if he worked 50, 60, 70 hours per week vs what he is getting paid now for the same amount of hours. It might help him to realize the promotion may not be as good as he thinks. He might also have a bit more insight into the work. Maybe he will still be there the same amount of hours, but it will be an easier job. I would argue though, that its pretty much his decision, since he is the one that has to do the job.
Also, while its good to pay off debt and I think its important to get into a good financial position, its not worth killing yourself to get there. People can't work hours like that forever. Right now he has the incentive of overtime pay to put in more hours, but once that is gone, maybe he won't feel the need to work quite as much.
At one point you said he worked 120hrs. That means 17 hour days, 7 days a week. Why is he working for this company?
It's the oilfield. These hours are completely normal for that industry.
I live in an area that is very big in the oil industry. I completely agree with steph. I don't know if it is that people don't know a lot about the industry, but this whole thing is not so uncommon. In most industries you do NOT want to turn down a promotion. In the oil industry there are laborers and there are engineers (yes, this is a generalization and there are a few other jobs but there are definitely extremes for the most part) and if you want to move up from being a laborer that works 100 hrs. a week you need to become an engineer. In order to become an engineer you need a degree or specialized training in petroleum. So, if he doesn't want to become an engineer then it will NOT hurt him to turn this down. The oil industry is not like the industries that most people are thinking about. 17 hour days, 7 days a week. Common. 48 hour straight shifts. Common. DH's uncle work 6 weeks on up to 20 hour shifts then 2 weeks off and no one in the industry bats an eye. I have a friend who works 12 on, 2 off with 14-16 hour shifts. I am not saying that there shouldn't be a budget and some serious consideration but he isn't working a job where he can choose to work less. And, from what I know it is unlikely that this "promotion" will decrease his hours because he will be the low man on the proverbial totem pole among the supervisors. Most men do not do this type of job until they retire at 60. It is just too hard.
Geez. 17-20 hour shifts?! Is this for real? Are they considered working if they are sleeping but can be woken up if something goes wrong? Because otherwise its not healthy or safe. Exhaustion leads to serious accidents.
I know, not the point of the post. But I kept reading in disbelief, thinking the OP was exaggerating.
To the OP, when H took a position that had formally been considered salary, he negotiated to stay hourly. DOL changed the hourly/salary rules a few years back to make more ppl eligible for salary, including foremen. His boss was willing to keep him salary, but that was a very small company. I doubt it's an option for you all. But I do hear you. And you aren't the first folks to be looking at a promotion to a salary that ends up being less once you factor in OT.
I'm with pretty much everyone else. He should take the promotion for a variety of reasons- fewer hours (good god for 100-120 per week?!?!?!), better position in the company, etc. Deal with the "pay cut" and budget better.
I feel like you just want to hear people side with you, but it isn't happening and you are becoming defensive. So please keep on open mind and listen to the suggestions.
-Look at the big picture. Even if he would be working 70-80 hours a week that is a large improvement from 100. -Will this position give him additional skills, responsibilities? Think about how it will look on a resume in a few years. -If you so concerned could he ask to get demoted if the new job isn't working out?
I don't think I could pass up an opportunity for a better job in a company just on the off chance that as a salary employee I make less than an hours. It's not all about money. There is a reason the hourly employee is obviously making a decent wage in the oil field- it is sucktastic job with horrific hours.
His job is in a different part than forcuatro mentioned, but she have some great info. He works for a service that helps the production side of the field. If they have a certain type of problem with their specific equipment, they call his company. Sorry I'm being vague, there are only 3 companies like this in an 8 hour radius. Since they are one of the few that does what they do, they are in high demand. He doesn't have to stay out for weeks like the production people. He has actually talked about moving over to the production side (he might actually spend more hours at home if he moved to 2 weeks on, 1 week off) but nobody will hire anyone right now.
Well why the fuck is he working such a god awful job?
He doesn't have a college degree. It was either that or work for minimum wage or some other crappy job. In the part of the state that he grew up and we met in, oilfield is #1. It's what all the young guys do if they have the skill set needed. Yeah it is a lot of hours, but the money is awesome.
It's the oilfield. These hours are completely normal for that industry.
I live in an area that is very big in the oil industry. I completely agree with steph. I don't know if it is that people don't know a lot about the industry, but this whole thing is not so uncommon. In most industries you do NOT want to turn down a promotion. In the oil industry there are laborers and there are engineers (yes, this is a generalization and there are a few other jobs but there are definitely extremes for the most part) and if you want to move up from being a laborer that works 100 hrs. a week you need to become an engineer. In order to become an engineer you need a degree or specialized training in petroleum. So, if he doesn't want to become an engineer then it will NOT hurt him to turn this down. The oil industry is not like the industries that most people are thinking about. 17 hour days, 7 days a week. Common. 48 hour straight shifts. Common. DH's uncle work 6 weeks on up to 20 hour shifts then 2 weeks off and no one in the industry bats an eye. I have a friend who works 12 on, 2 off with 14-16 hour shifts. I am not saying that there shouldn't be a budget and some serious consideration but he isn't working a job where he can choose to work less. And, from what I know it is unlikely that this "promotion" will decrease his hours because he will be the low man on the proverbial totem pole among the supervisors. Most men do not do this type of job until they retire at 60. It is just too hard.
I think that if he doesn't want to stay in this industry it is especially important for him to take the promotion. Future employers might be like those of us here who don't understand his current industry, and would wonder why he worked so long with one company and never got a promotion. Management experience looks good on a resume, and if he wants out of the industry then making his resume look good should be a top priority.
Does being in a salary position mean he would be eligible for a bonus? That might help offset the fact that he will be working a lot of hours and making less. I think you should show him on paper how you figured out how much he would make per hour if he worked 50, 60, 70 hours per week vs what he is getting paid now for the same amount of hours. It might help him to realize the promotion may not be as good as he thinks. He might also have a bit more insight into the work. Maybe he will still be there the same amount of hours, but it will be an easier job. I would argue though, that its pretty much his decision, since he is the one that has to do the job.
Also, while its good to pay off debt and I think its important to get into a good financial position, its not worth killing yourself to get there. People can't work hours like that forever. Right now he has the incentive of overtime pay to put in more hours, but once that is gone, maybe he won't feel the need to work quite as much.
No bonuses. I offered to make a spreadsheet to compare what he would be making with the old hourly vs the new salary in different circumstances. He told me not to so it. Later he called back and told me that he calculated a few things and the salary sent as much as he figured. I think he was forgetting about the tax. Lol.
He has been doing the higher position in officially for over 6 months. The only difference is the pay, a higher credit card limit, a clipboard, a uniform patch, and what he can write as his title.
This is a problem my field of work has a lot. Supervisors are salary only, exempt employees get at least straight time pay for overtime during outages and hourly get what you describe. There are A LOT of people who making the jump to supervisor isn't worth it because while there is the claim that they will work less hours, the pay cut is too much for the still high probability that they won't actually reduce hours. Just now they aren't well tracked since they aren't paid out.
I disagree with pp that it's his job, his decision. It does need to be a joint decision, but not totally based on money. He needs to find out from others what to really expect from the promotion and find out if this is a "real" promotion in that it might lead to more (and is there really room to move up and increase salary after this or is he going to max out soon).
If this is a money issue for you - then what are YOU doing to reduce budget expenses and increase income? This is HIS decision . Working on the budget and paying off debt is an issue you can deal with separately. (Why is there debt? Has that issue been resolved?)
I just want him to be fairly compensated for his work. There is no reason for him to take a pay cut to potentially end up working the same amount of hours. I can't imagine many people here would be willing to take up to a 30% pay cut to pretty much keep the same job.
I be pissed if I got paid less for the amount of hours I was putting in and on top of that, working more. There are weeks I can work 100+ hours due to on call responsibilities neither DH or I make extra-since we are salary but thats how our job is, but knowing how your husbands job works I would not want him to make any less for those hours. If anything make more so you can save, and do what you need to later on.
This is a problem my field of work has a lot. Supervisors are salary only, exempt employees get at least straight time pay for overtime during outages and hourly get what you describe. There are A LOT of people who making the jump to supervisor isn't worth it because while there is the claim that they will work less hours, the pay cut is too much for the still high probability that they won't actually reduce hours. Just now they aren't well tracked since they aren't paid out.
I disagree with pp that it's his job, his decision. It does need to be a joint decision, but not totally based on money. He needs to find out from others what to really expect from the promotion and find out if this is a "real" promotion in that it might lead to more (and is there really room to move up and increase salary after this or is he going to max out soon).
I recently had a blow out with my husband about this.. in the same industry. I actually talked about it on here. The blow out was due to communication and the fact that his job impacts me as well.