Post by hbomdiggity on Jan 8, 2013 21:07:50 GMT -5
What happens if you don't make hours?
I didn't make hours last year. I didn't get a raise (lockstep), understandable, and was told if I made hour this year, I'd be bumped back into my class pay. (this did not affect my partner class.)
I am now being told that in order to be bumped back into my class pay, I have to not only make hours, but make up the deficit from the previous year.
I'm beyond pissed. This is not what I was told and this is not a distributed/transparent policy available to us to review. And it just seems ridiculous.
I'm at a small firm. Nothing really happens. We aren't lockstep, bonuses are a joke if they're even awarded. Raises are hit or miss. In my situation, much of the reason I'm unable to make my hours is that they keep taking work away from me when they hire new attorneys, then they leave and I get some work back, rinse repeat. Business development doesn't count and is to be done on my own time and my own dime. My hourly rate billed to clients hasn't been adjusted in going on year 3 and my rate for bank work is lower than a rising 2nd year associate (I'm a 6th year). My hours were lower this year than last, but my revenue was greater.
We have a 1900 hour "requirement" and need to hit 2000 hours to get a bonus (although our bonus structure is strange -- if you hit 1000 hours by six months into the fiscal year you get half of the annual bonus amount, and if you hit 2000 by the end of the fiscal year you get the other half of the whole bonus if you got the 1000 hour bonus, or 100% of the bonus amount if you didn't get the half-year bonus).
If you don't hit your hours, I don't think anything happens. I guess if they were really bad you'd probably get a talking to. But you still get raises and are in good standing as long as they aren't really bad.
I did not make my hours this year, had my worst year out of 5 ever actually, but our whole department was really slow this year.
Nothing in particular happens (that I have heard of thus far, however, I am generally well like). But, if my hours had been really bad, I'd be worried about layoffs.
God, I'm sorry. I haven't heard of this before - but at the same time the dick move doesn't surprise me. How much do you have to "make up."?
My firm mid-sized. You aren't guaranteed an increase in pay or partnership unless you hit your hours, but my firm tends to increase both in the early years, but in later years become increasingly less likely they will increase it without the hours. Bonuses are based on other things than pure hours, and are very subject in my firm (some people get it without making their hours, but usually only specialities that bill higher than the rest)
I would be pissed at being blind sided at this. No warning? Fuck it, I'd be pissed at this concept regardless!
I didn't make my hours one year, but it was fine (I got promoted partnership track and increase in pay), but we all had a slow year. I was worried at the end of this year, and I talked to my partners who basically said I'd be okay (in the sense they'd go to bat kind of thing...). I realize I am very lucky (and I ended up hitting my hours).
I've never personally known anyone who didn't make hours.
If they did, they never told me.
Maybe they were the ones who were asked to leave.
Oh, my firm is way oversahre - we can all see each others hours. Ends up in lots of drama. But most people continue on (if they want) not making their hours, but not all. It depends on the reasons - I'll just be frank, if its a not busy enough that year or so, my firm is usually okay (not large economic downturn bad). If its because firms are passive aggressive and withhold work from people they don't like rather than addressing it, then it can be a problem.
My friends and I effectively colluded, so they couldn't single any of us out for excessive praise or criticism. We all agreed to bill no more than a certain number of hours. All of us were within 30 hours of each other at the end of the year. LOL.
My friends and I effectively colluded, so they couldn't single any of us out for excessive praise or criticism. We all agreed to bill no more than a certain number of hours. All of us were within 30 hours of each other at the end of the year. LOL.
But this only works with people you really trust.
That's brillant. I'm in a strange spot because I'm the only one my year in my section so there is no direct comparison. I like it.
Post by hbomdiggity on Jan 8, 2013 22:08:52 GMT -5
Apparently it's becoming an issue with not making hours - but moreso in other offices so i don't know those associates as well.
I was told at my review last year that because it was my first year and otherwise had rave reviews, I was just getting the pay freeze with no partnership implication. Others were not so lucky and forced to reduced workload/pay (like 90%).
A partner went to bat for me last year and was essentially told there was nothing she could do, so I have a feeling it will be similar this year - you know because there is a "policy" that no one knows.
Apparently it's becoming an issue with not making hours - but moreso in other offices so i don't know those associates as well.
I was told at my review last year that because it was my first year and otherwise had rave reviews, I was just getting the pay freeze with no partnership implication. Others were not so lucky and forced to reduced workload/pay (like 90%).
A partner went to bat for me last year and was essentially told there was nothing she could do, so I have a feeling it will be similar this year - you know because there is a "policy" that no one knows.
Post by thedutchgirl on Jan 8, 2013 22:16:46 GMT -5
What is your hours requirement? And am I understanding that you've never actually met your requirement? I don't want to seem harsh, but perhaps you should review the post cosmos made last week about billing more hours.
As for my firm, I'm not really sure. No one in my group doesn't make hours, as far as I know. I know some people must not make hours, though. Based on our quarterly meeting reports. I think the non-litigation groups bill less.
Apparently it's becoming an issue with not making hours - but moreso in other offices so i don't know those associates as well.
I was told at my review last year that because it was my first year and otherwise had rave reviews, I was just getting the pay freeze with no partnership implication. Others were not so lucky and forced to reduced workload/pay (like 90%).
A partner went to bat for me last year and was essentially told there was nothing she could do, so I have a feeling it will be similar this year - you know because there is a "policy" that no one knows.
Are other people low, or are you the only one?
I made hours this year (barely, but I did) so now its an issue of the penalty for not making it last year.
From today's convo with the director of associate development, it seems that low hours were still an issue with some this year. So i think that's why the firm is taking such a hardass position.
If there's just a handful of you, you're in trouble, man.
Look. I've been there. Ok, well, not really been there because I never got a warning, but I saw that my hours were low, and I did something about it. Our office was slow, so I called up partners in other offices to send me work remotely, and my stay in NYC was the result of this proactive search for more hours.
I'm not saying that you need to bill 2460 hours, but you should look for work and document your requests for work. I had a boatload of e-mails showing that I'd made extensive efforts to look for work, and I got the hours (and then some) that I needed.
But, if I hadn't, I'd print all of those e-mails out and wave them all around when the powers that be inevitably asked me why I didn't make my hours. SEE? SEE? I ASKED FOR WORK! And then it wouldn't be on you. It'd be the firm's fault.
Does this make any sense? Do you think this is something you can do?
If you haven't already linked up with a partner who loves you (i.e., gives you all of his/her work and/or goes to bat for you otherwise), nobody is going to take care of you.
Find a patron saint or bust your ass to find more hours.
Small firm here. I posted about my situation last week (since has been deleted). But I haven't made hours since I've been here (although I did at prior firms). This year no raise (yet) and a shitty bonus.
My issue was cutting time and not accurately planning.
Other offices/practice areas seem to be more workload issues.
Wait, are you cutting your own time? Don't do that! That's the partner's job. Especially if, as it seems, you are a second year. Do your work. Pay attention to your realization rate but don't be consumed by it. And bill every second of everything you do.
My issue was cutting time and not accurately planning.
Other offices/practice areas seem to be more workload issues.
Wait, are you cutting your own time? Don't do that! That's the partner's job. Especially if, as it seems, you are a second year. Do your work. Pay attention to your realization rate but don't be consumed by it. And bill every second of everything you do.
Yeah, seriously. NEVER CUT YOUR TIME.
Yeesh.
Do we need to do Billing 101 here?
If I'm taking a dump and thinking about a case, I'm billing that shit.
Post by thedutchgirl on Jan 8, 2013 22:29:48 GMT -5
Small firms are totally different. It is either "we see you making partner here" or "we don't." It isn't at all structured like bigger, even medium-sizes firms.
So you made your hours this year, but they aren't promoting you because you didn't make them last year?
Uh.
Frankly, it sounds like there is something up with your firm; are there a lot of slow people? So maybe they are cutting things where they can because the budget is so tight?
I would be pissed.
Agree with miso, I definitely documented every request my slow year eventually. I even put them in my description of hours (asked XYZ partners in nonbillable).