S/O schools - thoughts on public vs private?

[americaninoz]

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the way it is here (in Sydney at least) that just about everyone we knows sends their kids to private schools (even if they financially can barely get by by doing that).
I grew up going to public school, as did dh.
But people are telling me that if you want a decent education here you have to go private?? really??
We have a few years yet to decide, but I'm just having trouble beliving that you HAVE to go private to get a good education? Especially now that we have moved to a good area....

I see tons of kids waiting for the buses in the morning - very few with uniforms for our local public schools. There are just SO many private schools to choose from too if you do go that route - argh I just have no idea what we'll do.....

[americaninoz]

what's it like in your country?

[frlcb]

Oh man. I think I posted about this before, this has been a huge struggle for us over the past year for ds. He will be in pre-k in the Fall and I love the preschool he has been in, so would have been thrilled to send him there another year. But, our public school is just ok, in a county that pretty much sucks, in a state that definitely sucks.

I would say given where we live most of our friends are split, some are doing public elementary and will switch to private in middle school. We decided to go ahead and start private school in the fall, so he will be there through 8th grade, then switch to a private high school.

FWIW, I went to public school as well, in this same state, but it was the best schools in the state. We chose not to move to the suburbs but rather live in the city so we knew we would have this dilemma. I do think parental involvement is huge, and that you can get a great education at the right public school. But, seeing what we get at the private school, in terms of smaller classes, more outdoor time (which is HUGE for me), better facilities, etc, then I do think he will get a better education at a private school.

Even though we have made our decision I am still stressed

[americaninoz]

I just get the feeling that it's looked down on here to send your kids to public schools. My dh went public (in the area next to where we are now actually.....) but people say 'it used to be good, now public's not good'
I don't know - it's hard to know what's the truth. I guess maybe in the next year or 2 I should actually go visit our public school and see what I think of it. Religous private schools are cheaper here than the fancy private schools, but we're not overly religous so I don't know if I want to do that either. *sigh* so hard
and I like the idea of our kids knowing local kids too - but I swear like 90% of kids in our area go to private schools all over the city!! so bizarre compared to how I grew up/went to school in the states...... in MN only 'rich' kids went to private school, and everyone in our area went public!

[expatjen]

In India you'd have to go to private school to get a good education. There a tons here to choose from, but they are all quite competitive to get into. DS will definitely be going to a private school. I had a public school education in the US and it was totally fine

[clickerish]

Mine will probably go to private, but that is for a specific reason. We want our child to be equally bilingual in either language, especially in the case we have to switch schools with academic moves to a different system. I went through the "toss the kid into the system and see if it swims" which was pretty traumatic and want to at least eliminate the linguistic barrier for ours. The public schools in the US, if they offer anything, generally offer bilingual for kids who speak Spanish at home but need to learn English--that's not what we want. We want the kid to actually be taught, say, math in Spanish. You can't get that in public.

But I have no problem with public schools necessarily. If the language bit weren't so important to us, we'd definitely make it a serious contender.

[americaninoz]

I just find it hard to believe that after moving to a nice area where all the houses cost over a million dollars, that the public schools are rubbish??? how can that be?

[americaninoz]

I'm wondering if it has more to do with perception? Sydney is very 'what school did you go to?' - but does that really matter in the long run? as long as whatever school you went to is good?

[knittable]

It's more complicated than that. And Sydney is a special case, too.

But, for a start, the "what school did you go to" isn't usually a snobby question, it's a way of connecting, figuring out who knows who. But, that's only true if you're mixing with the middle class. The upper class will absolutely look down on you for having attended a Catholic school and not Kings. Keep in mind that because Australian private schools just top up their public money with fees, $20,000 for Kings is mind-blowingly expensive (added to which your name has to be put down before you're born).

[americaninoz]

yea dh said a lot of kids in our area go to Kings - I see what you're saying (I guess because we used to live in a wealthy area that's why we heard it like that so much....)
But is there really that huge of a difference between public schools in a good area (I'm talking middle class here - as that's what we are) compared to say a religous school? does it really just depend on the area? I just don't get it when people send their kids to a private school but can BARELY afford to get by (mortgage, no holidays, etc). We MIGHT send dd private, but honestly if our local public is good I'd rather her go there - we have some selective girls high schools nearby that we could hopefully get her into for high school.....

[dpdw]

We have our kids in private schools. There are very, very, very few expats here who go the local/public school route. We decided against the local public school because 1) I don't like their teaching style, and 2) local schools are taught in Cantonese which we don't see the need of our children learning (we want them learning Mandarin) and would be a huge barrier in me being able to volunteer in the classroom (if that's even allowed in the local schools) and help with homework.

[allibally]

May 30, 2012 21:09:38 GMT -5 clickerish said:

Mine will probably go to private, but that is for a specific reason. We want our child to be equally bilingual in either language, especially in the case we have to switch schools with academic moves to a different system. I went through the "toss the kid into the system and see if it swims" which was pretty traumatic and want to at least eliminate the linguistic barrier for ours. The public schools in the US, if they offer anything, generally offer bilingual for kids who speak Spanish at home but need to learn English--that's not what we want. We want the kid to actually be taught, say, math in Spanish. You can't get that in public.

But I have no problem with public schools necessarily. If the language bit weren't so important to us, we'd definitely make it a serious contender.

I don't know. There might be some public school options like this actually. I'm never really researched this but have heard about it in one of my classes. You never know plus there are the public charter schools.

I don't think we would send our kids the private school route unless the neighborhood is just terrible. I've looked into the school report cards for a couple of schools in Chicago. It gives you a breakdown of the testing ect. The school might not have high performance but that's usually due to the social-economic background of the students and if they are ELL.

The only other way I see us choosing private is that we just suck at teaching the kids German. Then we might hightail it back to Europe or take the cost of private schools.

I went to public school. It was really small ratio was usually 17:1. Grade sizes were never more than 30 children usually.

[Shreddingbetty]

DH went to private school all the way. His daughters did as well. We are raising our nieces and the 17 y/o is in public HS here because she would not have survived at the private HS due to her lack of education when we got her (she was starting HS when we got her 3 years ago). The lack of education in her case wasn't so much because of the school (their school was actually pretty good) she and her little sister went to but more so the total lack of parental involvement and many missed school days.

DH was always in favor of private school but having his niece in the local public HS has really reinforced his belief. The public school system here sucks big time. 70-80% of HS graduates from here that go onto college need remedial classes once they get to college. Niece gets great grades with minimal effort but isn't really learning much (in her freshman year she had a history class and they were not allowed to take the books home to study so we ended up buying it for her). They really teach to the lowest denominator here so everyone can move through and somehow graduate. Of course there are kids that do just fine but it still doesn't compare to the work that DH's daughters had to do at their school.

Youngest niece started in 4th grade and is going to private school and will be going to private HS (out of town about 40-45 minutes away since we dont have private HS here). Kids in Public school here have way too much time on their hands due to the microscopic amount of homework they get. We have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the state for a reason. She needs to stay busy with school and after school activities and be around people that want to go to college. Oldest niece has lots of friends but very few of them have any interest in college. She is the only one of her friends who has taken the SAT. Granted there are several kids who do take the SAT and go to college, she just isn't friends with any of them.

I grew up in NL where HS is a lot more rigorous because they separate out different levels into different schools so the 6 year HS (HS starts in 7th grade) is really college prep. The 4 year HS is for kids who struggle with learning or just plain don't care and some kids will go to a trade school instead and become mechanics etc. Nothing wrong with that if that is what they want. I actually think it is great. Some kids just aren't college material but they still learn something and can make a living.

Of course there are some public schools that are awesome but we don't happen to live anywhere near them. The money for private school is worth it (to us anyway). If the current K-8 school were to disappear for some reason (don't think it will) I would more than likely send my DD out of town for private school once she is ready to go.

Our public school system her is on turn around status meaning they have to make some changes to get their kids up to par education wise. They also spend (unwisely) $13,000 per public school kid per year. That is more than what we pay for our k-8 private school tuition. Not sure what the city spends the $13000 on but it seems that could go a long way if it was spent wisely...then again, what do I know

[aMrsin09]

Isn't Bali a teacher? She can probably help.

H did/does send his kids to a private Catholic Aggi college (boarding) in the middle of freakin nowhere. It was to a) get them away from their mom as much as possible; b) Give them a better education than they would in the 400 person town they live in and c) expose them to other kids then the 400 person town had to offer. So in that way, private was much better.

I don't know that the education was any better. My SD graduated last year, has the vocabulary of a truck driver and the language skills of a 4th grader, but she still got an A in English. H called the school fuming. Turns out it was the teachers last year of teaching and she gave everybody an A.
My SS is doing much better. He will actually have a trade that doesn't involve animal husbandry and has one year towards his apprenticeship already. So again, for his kids, private was still better.

[VillainV]

May 30, 2012 21:11:34 GMT -5 americaninoz said:

I just find it hard to believe that after moving to a nice area where all the houses cost over a million dollars, that the public schools are rubbish??? how can that be?

When so many people bail on public school, the schools get worse. Then more people bail, and it's a vicious cycle. The quality of a school isn't just about how much money people make and how much of that goes in taxes to the local schools. Generally speaking, when you have students from a more affluent community, you also get the benefit of parents who might have more time to volunteer in the classroom (because they can afford to only have one income), and that parent-volunteer is more likely to be highly educated. Plus a ton of other factors that make a more diverse school a better place for kids....

It's sad when people bail on public school....but I guess I can understand.

[americaninoz]

yea that's a good point (duh) Bail - what are you thoughts on the matter? You'd be the resident expert I'd guess since you're a teacher here

[clogged]

While I lived in CA, I worked 7 days a week to afford private school. I skipped meals, didn't have cable, whatever it took.

a) CA schools are shit.
b) CA schools are overcrowded, so have an age cut-off. They are very happy to cut kids based on their age not their ability.
c) CA schools don't recognize gifted children as "special needs" so they pretty much ignore these kids in lower years and only marginally improve in higher years.
d) CA schools are low funded and the course offering and facilities reflect that.

Were private schools teh awesum? No. I still had to put in effort and still had to be selective. But they were a zillion times better than public.

Here, private schools are limited to International schools and ONE school for the highest spectrum kids. But there are so many options for public including religious based and learning methods, I could at least pick and choose my daughter's school based on her needs, what type of education they offer, and cleanliness (which sounds lame, I know, but the number of schools without soap in the bathroom for kids to wash their hands is scary. Or piles of dog shit on the playground).

[elenetxu]

Both DH and I work in the public system here, and if/when we have kids I hope to send them to the public system - that is if the current administration doesn't set the public system back 50 years like we fear is happening.

If, at any point, the kids express interest in private school I will support them. I spent two years at boarding school and I credit that experience for getting me where I am today. I will offer the same opportunity to my children once they are older.

[travelingturtle]

We're going to do international schools until we go to the states and we'll reevaluate.

I think the best for you is to go and check out how the schools compare.

[anna7602]

May 30, 2012 21:09:38 GMT -5 clickerish said:

Mine will probably go to private, but that is for a specific reason. We want our child to be equally bilingual in either language, especially in the case we have to switch schools with academic moves to a different system. I went through the "toss the kid into the system and see if it swims" which was pretty traumatic and want to at least eliminate the linguistic barrier for ours. The public schools in the US, if they offer anything, generally offer bilingual for kids who speak Spanish at home but need to learn English--that's not what we want. We want the kid to actually be taught, say, math in Spanish. You can't get that in public.

Happily, we can get this in public in NYC. When we get back next year, we're going to apply for both the Spanish-language bilingual program for DD and the French-language bilingual program in the NYC public system.

If she doesn't get into either, I'm not sure what we'll do. Not all public schools are created equal in NY. This is something I was completely baffled by when I first learned it, but even within the same small geographic area, one school's program is better than another's, different activities are offered, some have outdoor play spaces and others don't, etc. Subsequently, most parents end up applying for a spot at the better school, which makes it harder for everyone to get in.

We'll go through the whole lottery system next spring (for K, DD will still be in France for a large part of Pre-K) and I am holding out hope it all works out for us, but this is one of the reasons DH wants to get us out of NY long term.

In Paris, it seems like a lot of people go to public school and I get the feeling that the public system is quite good. We had to go private, however, because we moved here mid-year and couldn't be guaranteed a January spot at our local public school. We asked DD what she wanted for the fall and she said she wanted to stay at her current school instead switching again.

[azure]

Mine goes to private school. The public school that he would have had to go to has a bad reputation. If we move to another neighbourhood or town, then I would consider public, but now through his private school he is guaranteed a spot in one of the top Lycee in France.

[ktkl09]

If we are in the US, we will send our future kids to a private school.

I went to public elementary school and a catholic high school. My experience at public school was terrible, but I did much better in a private school.

If we're in Switzerland, I'm not sure what will we do. I would like my kids to go to the local school and have friends nearby, etc but if I am still working in a private school, they will probably come to my school. We have one (small) international school in our town, it's a Montessori method school and bilingual (English, French), they will most likely go there. I want them to be in a French and English environment also.

[Deleted]

I went to public schools, in Italy that's where the best education happens. Private schools are kind of rare and are usually attended by the kids that can't make it to their diploma so they go pay for one at a private school to be done with it. The rest are international schools.
Only my kindergarten school was private, my parents chose a Montessori school.

I have no idea what we will do/prefer to do once we have a school aged child. I don't see us ever moving back to Rome although I would really love for my child to be taught what I've been taught, in terms of curriculum, subjects, method of teaching etc. We might move back to Europe at that point, maybe to France.

Or maybe we'll find a good international school here in NYC, although I'm sure the financial aspect will be a huge deciding factor.

[frlcb]

May 30, 2012 21:09:38 GMT -5 clickerish said:

Mine will probably go to private, but that is for a specific reason. We want our child to be equally bilingual in either language, especially in the case we have to switch schools with academic moves to a different system. I went through the "toss the kid into the system and see if it swims" which was pretty traumatic and want to at least eliminate the linguistic barrier for ours. The public schools in the US, if they offer anything, generally offer bilingual for kids who speak Spanish at home but need to learn English--that's not what we want. We want the kid to actually be taught, say, math in Spanish. You can't get that in public.

But I have no problem with public schools necessarily. If the language bit weren't so important to us, we'd definitely make it a serious contender.

You can get that in public schools in some places. My nephews go to a public school in Arlington, VA and it is a full immersion school, and they do math, science, etc in Spanish. It is awesome.

[bail229]

Wow, I've never been an expert on anything before! Lol!
Anyway, I've been in public and catholic schools here. I think it's safe to say the public schools in your area would be good. You live in a very nice area so I wouldn't worry.
One thing that the catholic schools here are doing is this "open classroom" thing. Basically they have taken out the walls and have giant classrooms with a few teachers in it. Last year I taught in a room with 120 kids and 4 teachers. It sounds crazy but it was well under control. It does have some positives and negatives to it and I really think the success rate depends on the kids personality. I would never have done well in that type of environment as a kid because I was painfully shy, so I probably wouldn't have spoken at all. Some children thrive in that setting, just depends on the child Although there is a good chance that this may be phased out before G gets to school.
Also, in the next year or two they are implementing a national curriculum, so all schools will basically be doing the same things anyway.
Sorry, I don't know too much about private schools (except that they are expensive) and I know the most about catholic schools. If you PM me your local catholic school I can tell you what I know about it if you want. I went to public school growing up and will have no problem sending DS to our local public school (although I am waiting to see if "open classrooms" are still around in the catholic schools by the time we are ready to send him.)

Did this even make any sense?

[oneslybookworm]

DH and I don't have a preference either way, so long as the school is good. We both went public (including university), and my only problem with my high school was that we lived in a tiny town, so there weren't many electives offered.

That said, it will also depend a lot on the needs of our child(ren). If they need something that only private can offer, then we'll go private.

[Wanderista]

Yeah, I've been holding off about weighing in on this since it's a pretty long way off for me and a lot will probably change between now and then. I went to a public school in a well-respected district and I was in the "fast-track" program from basically first grade on. My public school experience was high-quality overall though I will say that I wish that I had been exposed to better and higher intensity foreign language training. There are schools like that for Spanish but there are generally less options like that for other languages (I'm talking about the States). I was in a pretty good foreign language program as far as the US goes but it was nothing like what is offered in most of Europe. I think that the US education is sometimes too general and needs to allow more specialization based on talents. That's one of the reasons that I left for college.

As far as my future child(ren)'s education goes. 1. I won't homeschool them. I didn't want to reply on that thread because it's a case of, "if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all." 2. I will definitely expose them to a lot during their non-school hours and if they are as curious as I was, they will be fine wherever they go. 3. I like the idea of Montessori for early childhood, I'd always kind of wished I could have done that. 4. I'll just make the determination based on whatever is best where I will be. I'm pretty sure they will develop well intellectually wherever they go (based on point #2), I will however consider switching them from one school to another if I don't like the social environment of the other kids. That's irrespective of whether the school is public or private.

[americaninoz]

thanks Bail - that does make alot of sense. I think what we'll do is just check out the local public school in the next few years and see what we think, and if we don't think it's good enough we'll consider private (or religious) schools. That's VERY interesting about the open room thing - yea I think G would NOT do well in that sort of environment, she's much too shy in a group environment. Thanks for that - will probably be asking you more questions as the time approaches (as we still have a few years up our sleeve.....

[mrsukyankee]

I went to private school because my dad taught there. If I had kids, they would go to private school because I work there. We live close to a good state (public) high school so if we wanted a British education, we'd be fine. Personally, I like the US system better.

[clickerish]

Thank you to those who informed me that bilingual education in the US might not be as impossible as we originally thought. Hopefully we can end up in an area that has this!