Ok, help me decide what to do (long) (updated)

[hamster]

Sorry, you missed the details!

[Deleted]

Sometimes it is worth it to take a pay cut to get out of a bad opportunity or move on to a situation where there is more growth. The benefits, flexibility and growth all sound good. The one thing that would concern me is the 5 days PTO, that seems very low to me. My company sick, personal, vacation are all lumped together into PTO and we offer 3 weeks to start with. After 1 or 2 years it goes to 4 and at 5 years you get 5 weeks. Based on this I would be inclined to say no.

[aspentosh]

That is really really tough because of the PTO. 5 days is nothing. I remember some of what you've posted, but have you asked if they could add on an additional 5 days after those 90 days along with the raise?

The "pay cut" wouldn't bother me (if you can afford it) if it meant more security and I was happier. The PTO is what is killing the deal for me.

[hamster]

Jan 23, 2013 9:42:15 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

I'll go backwards and start with my bottom line thought and go back with more detailed questions. Given the state of your current job/company, I would take the new offer but still pursue the other opportunities. You wouldn't be the first person to leave a job after a short period and, frankly, in this economy I feel even more strongly that it's every woman for herself and you need to do what's best for you.

Questions:

• Can you ask for more paid vacation time? I know you said in your previous post that they said no to a salary increase but did you ask about vacation?
• Will your H also be fully covered under your health plan?
• What do you have to do to get the monthly bonus? How often do people not hit the target?

Overall, while the vacation time sucks I think the new opportunity sounds better than your current situation. I'd go for it and, as I said, simultaneously keep looking.

I suppose I could, but like I said, the ability to take time is more important to me than the ability to take paid time. I do get 10 days after three years. 

H is currently covered under his own employer, so there's no need to include him on mine. If he loses his job we're f'ed anyways, and would be needing to move asap.

I know the bonus is a points-based system. It's been communicated thus far that's it's pretty much a sure thing. Obviously the point of the bonus is that it's not, but I digress. They included it as part of my annual compensation package.

[Deleted]

It's unfortunate that the official PTO is so skimpy. But does the flexible hours kind of make up for it?

Case in point: a couple of times I've been out sick for, say, 4 hours on Monday afternoon. But I have so much work to get done I stay an extra hour on Tuesday- Friday to catch up. I end up not taking any PTO, and in some cases earning overtime, since I'm still working 40 hours/ week.

If you planned to go on a vacation, couldn't you work a lot early in the week so that you'd be able to take the end of the week off?

The PTO is crappy, but I'd be inclined to jump ship and continue looking for better options given the uncertainty in your current situation.

[hamster]

I will acknowledge that some of my hesitancy comes from quitting my current job. We're getting to the part I love. By leaving now, I'm leaving them in a huge lurch. And, because of the clusterfuck, I'm afraid that my leaving (or anybody for that matter, I'm not that conceited!) will be a psychological nail in the coffin. I realize none of this is my problem, but it's a small, close company so there's no way I can't admit it doesn't cross my mind.

[IrishBelle]

The communication issue would be a red-flag for me.  If that's what it is like now, its not likely to be any better as an employee.  On the other hand, knowing that the employees are happy and its a good place to work is huge.  I would likely take the offer but be open to other opportunites as well.  Can your DH go on your insurance, saving you that $150 per month that his plan costs?

[takeonyou]

Ask for more paid vacation time. It seems like that is your biggest issue and probably a very easy fix for them.

[LoveTrains]

I am also confused about why you wouldn't take the fully paid medical, dental & vision package from the new company. Why stay on your H's insurance if that is costing you $150/month? That should help to make up for the pay cut.

I would also try really hard to negotiate on the PTO. 5 days is terribly shitty, but maybe the flex hours do partly make it up for it. It sounds like a good company to work for based on the recommendation of your friend. But I agree that getting extra vacation time is a really easy benefit for them to add.

The worst thing is that the 5 days include sick. What if you got the flu? There goes your entire sick bank for the year. I have already been out three days in 2013 with the sinus infection of death, so there is no way I could take only 5 days PTO and be satisfied.

Based on what you have posted before about your current job, I would take this new opportunity. It sounds better than where you are now. I would give it a few months and if it is not what you were hoping, then I would continue to look. Rock n Voll is right, it is every person for themselves in this economy.

[hamster]

Jan 23, 2013 9:56:02 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

Jan 23, 2013 9:47:51 GMT -5 hamster said:

I understand that the ability to take unpaid time is a nice backup plan but why would you not at least ask for more paid vacation time?  It's one of the easiest things for a company to give you--I advised DH to do this and he got an additional week added on, which has made a big difference.  You did the harder thing already and asked for more money.  This is a much easier ask!  Don't short change yourself.  You even have a great point to make that you'd be leaving a higher salary position and need something to compensate for that.  I assume they don't know how badly you want to jump ship?

Also, why would you not move your H to your plan if it's fully paid for by the company and his has an OOP cost to him?

You make a good point. No, they don't know how badly I need out. I be sure to keep all that quiet.

And H's insurance is free for him. The only cost associated with his insurance is because he added me. 

[LoveTrains]

Jan 23, 2013 10:07:01 GMT -5 hamster said:

Jan 23, 2013 9:56:02 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

I understand that the ability to take unpaid time is a nice backup plan but why would you not at least ask for more paid vacation time?  It's one of the easiest things for a company to give you--I advised DH to do this and he got an additional week added on, which has made a big difference.  You did the harder thing already and asked for more money.  This is a much easier ask!  Don't short change yourself.  You even have a great point to make that you'd be leaving a higher salary position and need something to compensate for that.  I assume they don't know how badly you want to jump ship?

Also, why would you not move your H to your plan if it's fully paid for by the company and his has an OOP cost to him?

You make a good point. No, they don't know how badly I need out. I be sure to keep all that quiet.

And H's insurance is free for him. The only cost associated with his insurance is because he added me. 

So take yourself off of H's insurance, go to the new employer's insurance, and now you have netted $50/month. 

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2013 9:53:57 GMT -5 hamster said:

I will acknowledge that some of my hesitancy comes from quitting my current job. We're getting to the part I love. By leaving now, I'm leaving them in a huge lurch. And, because of the clusterfuck, I'm afraid that my leaving (or anybody for that matter, I'm not that conceited!) will be a psychological nail in the coffin. I realize none of this is my problem, but it's a small, close company so there's no way I can't admit it doesn't cross my mind.

hamster, I agree with rock-n-voll - every woman for herself.  I guarantee they are not staying up worrying about you.  

Given what you outlined above, I would absolutely take the new role.  Your biggest concern seems to be delays / disorganization - I'm hiring a LOT of people right now and we probably appear more disorganized / delayed than they would like because we are stretched thin (hence the hiring) and juggling a lot of candidates.  So - I'm empathetic to them!

I don't love the low number of PTO days (compared to what I am used to) but they don't bother you.  Full insurance is great.

I think you owe it to yourself to make the jump.  Do it, girl!!!!

[LoveTrains]

I just want to add that you should look at the compensation package in its entirety. Yes, the salary is a pay cut, but when you add in the value of the free insurance, you are netting $50. This doesn't take into account the lack of PTO, but I think you are misleading yourself when you say its a 4% pay cut, because its not when you add in the insurance.

[holly22]

I suggest seeing if you can negotiate another week of vacation time or get in writing that you can take unpaid leave without any issues.  This sounds like your biggest sticking point. You could say something like "The pay is less than I anticipated but to offset that would it be possible to get 2 weeks of vacation? (or however you want to ask)

The new job sounds like the initial pay cut will be worth it.  There is room for growth, and you know of someone that works there that has great things to say. Sometimes I think the hiring managers don't always know what they should be doing when trying to hire someone.

[lishie]

The insecurity it sounds like your current position has would make me interested in the new opportunity, particularly because it sounds like it offers more opportunities for you to do what you want to long term. I took a decent pay cut (8K) to get my current position, and in the two years since I've been able to get back to where I was and should surpass that shortly. It sounds as though the new opportunity may have the possibility of allowing you to earn more long term, which is good. The PTO is the glaring negative in my eyes. (a few years ago I went from 4 weeks to 2.5 weeks and it was a terrible change). However, if you would have the ability to possibly negotiate more, or ensure that you could take time unpaid (which it sounds like you will) and are ok with unpaid time, then I'd jump at the chance.

[chessie]

Ask for more time. Where I work you get 10 days until you work here for 5+ years then you get 14 days.. Very least its something. You get knocked on your butt with the flu there goes your time.

[vanillacourage]

I would for sure negotiate for more PTO.  5 days is ridiculous.  That said, I would take it IF they wrote into my job offer the guarantee of a bonus at the three-month mark, and guaranteed the ability to take at least 5 days unpaid in addition to the 5 days of PTO already provided. It's fine to give you crappy vacation and then wave their hand and say "oh, you can take more unpaid", but what happens if that request for unpaid time is denied?

I would also continue pursuing the opportunities that will get you a 50% pay raise. 

[dancingirl21]

I took a 10% pay cut to come to my current position. I also work at least 10-20 hours more per week. But, my commute is 15 minutes (1.5 hours before), my PTO is 23 days per year (compared to 13 before) and I'm liking what I do a lot more. So, you need to weigh the pros and cons of each option and figure out what makes the most sense for you. Unfortunately, it's usually not spelled out all the way for you.

[krystee]

I would take it as a stop-gap measure since your current job is a cluster and this new job puts you on the path to get one in your desired area. Five days of COMBINED sick and vacation time is not my idea of a company that treats its employees well, but if it gets you out of a bad situation and on the path to a better one, I'd do it.

[Deleted]

I would take the new job. The PTO sucks but otherwise it doesnt sound bad. I may feel differently if your current job was stable but since it is not, this new job sounds infinitely better than no job. And you can always keep looking if it turns out bonuses dont pan out or you cant take the unpaid leave you want.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using proboards

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2013 11:13:58 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

As an aside, carrots's and hamster's avatars always confuse me and I have to actively look to see which one of you is posting.

Ditto!

[Deleted]

I think you should ask for more vacation. I don't think that you should accept that as an unmoveable fact.

[Deleted]

Ditto PP, I woudl take the new job. Try to negotiate for more PTO but I would take it regardless. See how you like it and then decide from there if you continue looking or stay put.

[hbomdiggity]

The pto sucks, but I think your crazy not to take it.

And you owe your current employer nothing. Get them out of your head.

[hamster]

Sigh. Ok.

So I had a long talk with my mentor. She also works here, so she fully understands the environment here. She doesn't want me to leave, but everybody here is getting fidgety. Literally, everybody.

The PTO and no retirement is a red flag about how they really treat their employees. But the flex hours make up for most of it. The pay isn't that big of a deal, and I'd at least be doing more marketing stuff. I'm getting too niched here, and while I run that risk there, at least it's a small stepping stone.

Basically, I can't afford to not take it.

Ugh. Now, how do I quit?

[mokes]

Jan 23, 2013 9:47:51 GMT -5 hamster said:

Jan 23, 2013 9:42:15 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

I'll go backwards and start with my bottom line thought and go back with more detailed questions. Given the state of your current job/company, I would take the new offer but still pursue the other opportunities. You wouldn't be the first person to leave a job after a short period and, frankly, in this economy I feel even more strongly that it's every woman for herself and you need to do what's best for you.

Questions:

• Can you ask for more paid vacation time? I know you said in your previous post that they said no to a salary increase but did you ask about vacation?
• Will your H also be fully covered under your health plan?
• What do you have to do to get the monthly bonus? How often do people not hit the target?

Overall, while the vacation time sucks I think the new opportunity sounds better than your current situation. I'd go for it and, as I said, simultaneously keep looking.

I suppose I could, but like I said, the ability to take time is more important to me than the ability to take paid time. I do get 10 days after three years. 

H is currently covered under his own employer, so there's no need to include him on mine. If he loses his job we're f'ed anyways, and would be needing to move asap.

I know the bonus is a points-based system. It's been communicated thus far that's it's pretty much a sure thing. Obviously the point of the bonus is that it's not, but I digress. They included it as part of my annual compensation package.

I agree with everything Rock-n-Voll said. I would ask for more PTO. Even if unpaid time is possible, you probably don't know for sure that it's part of the culture to take unpaid time and if it would be frowned upon by co-workers or those higher up than your boss.  5 days is crazy, and it's not like you have extra holidays either.

[Deleted]

Good for you hamster.

Write your letter of resignation (very brief, you can google for some good simple templates) and give them two weeks notice. Have a meeting with your superior to hand over the notice and let them know you've found another position and are moving on. (Ensure you have the written offer in hand from the other company first.)

[jennistarr1]

I would respond "the only thing holding me back is the low PTO time" so you're putting it out there that it's a concern (they can't be surprised)

Can you crunch these numbers for us...take your current PTO minus the 5 the new company will give you. Now figure out how much your salary would be if you took those days unpaid.

[aspentosh]

Jan 23, 2013 11:44:12 GMT -5 RockNVoll said:

Are you going to ask for more vacation time??? I understand that you will take the position regardless but you will probably never have as much leverage as you have now, at least as far as New Employer knows. I just hate to see you not get a great benefit you could easily attain.

This. So much this.

But congrats on making the decision!

[SJ]

I didn't read all the other responses, but my gut says you should take it.