Somebody please explain townhomes to me.

[mamasaurus]

I mean, I know what they are. I am just confused why people buy them. In my area, at least, because here most of them cost as much or more as a similar free-standing home. Is it really just that people don't want to have to mow the lawn and would rather pay an association fee than hire a lawn service? Are there other benefits, but I am not aware of them? There are a (very) few nice ones in my area that are less than a comparable house. Is this supposed to be the norm for them, but the local market is screwy?

This post brought to you by me finding some papers from when we were house-hunting 4 years ago and wondering WTF we were thinking almost getting a town house that cost 50k more than the list price of where we live now.

[speckledfrog]

This is a weird post. "Hey, townhome owners. That crap sucks big monkey balls. Why are you so sucky?" FTR, I don't own a townhome.

[Deleted]

well, let's see:

-they offer space that is more private than an apartment.
-they are more affordable in terms of cost per square foot than a SFH.
-they offer some private outdoor space that is typically easier to maintain.
-they offer a higher-density living option which both enables inhabitants to live closer to urban amenities and can be better for the environment.
-they are a valid, affordable, attractive living option.

so, um, can you explain why you're so condescending about them?

[mamasaurus]

Sorry, I didn't mean it to be picking on townhome owners.

I just feel like there must be something I don't know for them to be worth so much more than, say, an apartment-style condo. They both share walls with neighbors. They both have an association fee. Both have the exterior maintained while you are responsible for the interior. Both have rules about how you can paint, decorate, etc anything visible from the street. Is the lawn? Do people just really like to have a lawn? I am genuinely confused. I have seen some very nice townhomes, but they're so expensive. There is a 2 BR, 1 bath near here listed for $375k, with 2BR 2 bath houses on decent lots listed for $325K right across the street.

[moonfrogx]

We bought one several years ago - at the time, they were significantly cheaper than houses in our area, and we both worked long out of town hours. A mortgage was less than rent, and we didn't have to worry about repairing anything - so it was perfect! We stayed there 7 years until DS was big enough that we needed a lawn.

There are many days I miss the condo for the no-upkeep factor!

Also - many of the units were owned by people who rented them out, some just to make a small profit, others because they bought it when they were super cheap to have as a retirement home, so they didn't have to worry about all the maintenance a house requires.

[ECB]

Jan 23, 2013 13:06:38 GMT -5 cville said:

well, let's see:

-they offer space that is more private than an apartment.
-they are more affordable in terms of cost per square foot than a SFH.
-they offer some private outdoor space that is typically easier to maintain.
-they offer a higher-density living option which both enables inhabitants to live closer to urban amenities and can be better for the environment.
-they are a valid, affordable, attractive living option.

so, um, can you explain why you're so condescending about them?

Yeah, all of this.  In looking for our new home, *I* was perfectly content to buy a rowhouse (what I call them and what I grew up in).  Dh was the one who wanted SFH because that's what he grew up in.

Other than sometimes hearing your neighbors, I don't see what's wrong w/ buying one.  In MOST areas, they are a cheaper alternative than a SFH.  And quite honestly, I'd LOVE the lower outdoor maintenance involved compared to our present home! 

Everyone has different priorities in life, including the kind of home they live in. 

[Deleted]

you honestly don't see the difference between having above and below neighbors vs. side to side neighbors? seriously?

check out the square footage of these "expensive" townhomes near you. there are ones near my house that cost about what my house cost and, while they take up less land, they offer at least 1000 more square feet than my house does. if i had 4 kids instead of 1, i'd consider them.

ETA:  and, leaving aside the fact that not all townhomes are condominiums, i'm not really on board with the abject horror over restrictions on how you can paint your house.  i mean, i guess i could paint my house purple with lime green trim, but i wouldn't.  so the fact that i couldn't in a condominium wouldn't make me die of sadness.

[mamasaurus]

Jan 23, 2013 13:06:38 GMT -5 cville said:

well, let's see:

-they offer space that is more private than an apartment.
-they are more affordable in terms of cost per square foot than a SFH.
-they offer some private outdoor space that is typically easier to maintain.
-they offer a higher-density living option which both enables inhabitants to live closer to urban amenities and can be better for the environment.
-they are a valid, affordable, attractive living option.

so, um, can you explain why you're so condescending about them?

I am not trying to be condescending. I'm sorry.

In my area, some are not more private than apartments, more affordable than a SFH, not necessarily urban, and not necessarily affordable. I gather that this is not the norm in other parts of the country. Thank you for clearing it up for me.

[fuckyourcouch]

we almost bought one. i love the three story floorplan ones, absolutely love. there are some beautiful, modern ones in this city that are 100% up my alley style wise, price wise, and location wise.

in the end, the only reason we didn't is because there was not a practical way to be able to let the dog outside without a leash/supervision, and that sucks (for us). and we assumed the resale would be tricky.

[mamasaurus]

Jan 23, 2013 13:09:32 GMT -5 moonfrogx said:

We bought one several years ago - at the time, they were significantly cheaper than houses in our area, and we both worked long out of town hours. A mortgage was less than rent, and we didn't have to worry about repairing anything - so it was perfect! We stayed there 7 years until DS was big enough that we needed a lawn.

There are many days I miss the condo for the no-upkeep factor!

Also - many of the units were owned by people who rented them out, some just to make a small profit, others because they bought it when they were super cheap to have as a retirement home, so they didn't have to worry about all the maintenance a house requires.

OK, this makes sense. Thank you.

[karinothing]

I live in NOVA and actually had a similar question this morning while looking at a 700K TH. But in the end, that 700K TH was built in 2012 and is gorgeous and the 700K SFH was built in 1900. So there is that.

[Deleted]

Also, many times the exterior maintenance is also included. Not just lawn service, but roof and exterior cladding.

We created a town home in a four family flat. We are able to live in a neighborhood we would otherwise not be able to afford. We rent the two 1 bdrm units and it covers almost all of our mortgage, taxes and insurance.

[mamasaurus]

Jan 23, 2013 13:11:53 GMT -5 fuckyourcouch said:

we almost bought one. i love the three story floorplan ones, absolutely love. there are some beautiful, modern ones in this city that are 100% up my alley style wise, price wise, and location wise.

in the end, the only reason we didn't is because there was not a practical way to be able to let the dog outside without a leash/supervision, and that sucks (for us). and we assumed the resale would be tricky.

Three stories?!? That's another thing we don't have here, at least, not that I have seen.

[Deleted]

All the things Cville said.

And all the things people said about personal preference.

And also what Ash said but we live in the Boston area.

[Deleted]

Some of the townhomes in my area are beyond gorgeous.

I love the townhome we live in, although we rent. We have yard to play in and pretty landscaping with lots and lots of sidewalks for DS to rids his bike and we don't have to upkeep any of it. We only share one wall of one bedroom (we are an end unit). The house has lots and lots of upgrades (granite, whirlpool tub, massive closets). The amenities are like living at a resort. The pool and hot tub are beautiful and there is an entire grilling area with huge range top gas grills for our use. There is a 24/7 security guard that patrols the grounds all day and night. A built in car washing area. A playground. Our own attached gargae It is gated with a clubhouse. And on top of all of that it is in the most desirable area of town.

We could not get what we have in this rental for the same price if we tried to rent a single family house in a similar community. It would probably be $300-$400 more.

Granted, we got a steal on our rent price and we don't own so we aren't paying the HOA fees, but come on, you can't see why that ^ would be appealing to own?!?!

Oh, and my townhome is three stories. Garage and entrance on first, master, office, dining and living (including laundry room) on second, and the other two bedrooms on the third.

Our townhouse also has 4 bathrooms. I love it. We are considering buying it.

[revolution]

In my area, I am convinced it is just that they prefer to not have a yard or to have a small yard.

I don't live in an urban area and the townhouses are in walking distance to precisely nothing.

The cost of a townhouse is pretty much the same per square foot as a new house here.

When we were looking at buying a house, we were baffled by the townhouses in this area too - same price, same condition, less privacy. We could only assume the townhouse owners preferred to not take care of a yard.

I get where you are coming from if your area/market is like it is here.

[rupertpenny]

I live in a townhouse now that I hate. Mostly because it is crappy 80s builder basic construction, and I'm 94% sure my next door neighbors are drug dealers. I would much rather be in a SFH.

But I've also live in rowhouses in DC that were awesome and way better than any condo or apartment.

It just depends on where you are and what's available.

[Deleted]

We have almost 3000 square feet including basement in our townhouse. We are an end unit so we have windows on three sides. We are not a condo-style, so we maintain our own exterior and yard, which H enjoys doing. We have a gorgeous deck, two-car garage, hardwood floors, brand-new kitchen with stainless steel, granite, and double wall ovens. Brand new construction when we bought but the neighborhood is complete now. What part of this isn't sounding good if the only real downsides are more stairs and one shared wall?

In NoVA, townhomes like ours cost close to 500k. Single families with our square footage start at 700k. Not to mention the extra upkeep.

I think everyone else addressed it well, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents, because none of the posts you've made in this thread have changed your original tone that was a little messenger.msn.com/MMM2006-04-19_17.00/Resou

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2013 13:08:00 GMT -5 mamasaurus said:

Sorry, I didn't mean it to be picking on townhome owners.

I just feel like there must be something I don't know for them to be worth so much more than, say, an apartment-style condo. They both share walls with neighbors. They both have an association fee. Both have the exterior maintained while you are responsible for the interior. Both have rules about how you can paint, decorate, etc anything visible from the street. Is the lawn? Do people just really like to have a lawn? I am genuinely confused. I have seen some very nice townhomes, but they're so expensive. There is a 2 BR, 1 bath near here listed for $375k, with 2BR 2 bath houses on decent lots listed for $325K right across the street.

And the 2 bdrm is going for cheaper and will sit on the market longer.  2 bdrm detached homes are VERY hard to sell.  2 brdm townhomes move quicker.

[Deleted]

Also, I'd rather live in an area I like in a smaller place than live in an area I hate but have a SFH.

I don't like the burbs. I call where I am now more rural and people (like LilaFowler) laugh at me.

I like SIDEWALKS and having shit to do w/in walking distance.

[shepoz]

Our first house was a TH. It was a great house and we didn't really hear our neighbors on either side. We just didn't need much space and we had just uprooted our lives to move to a new area. A SFH at the time wasn't an good option for us. Once we got a dog and were planning to have a baby, we moved to a SFH with a big yard.

[Deleted]

i'm lol'ing that when you wrote, essentially, "why the hell would anyone want to live in these overpriced bullshit restricted homes" you didn't take a moment to think whether or not that seemed a wee bit high and mighty.

this is like saying "why are those assholes on the florida coast spending all of that money on single-story houses with metal shutters for? who wants to live all on one story and waste money on unattractive metal covers?!?" without acknowledging that the hurricane risk there is a bit higher than in st. louis.

[CurlyQ284]

I'm also in NoVa but about 40 miles away from DC. Out here, most construction is newish, 80s and earlier. Land is expensive so you can't get a small house with a yard. You get a townhouse, or you drop $500K for a McMansion with granite countertops. Now they are building mostly Luxury Townhouses, which are $400-$500 k. This is why I can't afford to live here!

[mamasaurus]

Jan 23, 2013 13:10:39 GMT -5 cville said:

you honestly don't see the difference between having above and below neighbors vs. side to side neighbors? seriously?

check out the square footage of these "expensive" townhomes near you. there are ones near my house that cost about what my house cost and, while they take up less land, they offer at least 1000 more square feet than my house does. if i had 4 kids instead of 1, i'd consider them.

ETA:  and, leaving aside the fact that not all townhomes are condominiums, i'm not really on board with the abject horror over restrictions on how you can paint your house.  i mean, i guess i could paint my house purple with lime green trim, but i wouldn't.  so the fact that i couldn't in a condominium wouldn't make me die of sadness.

The comps I was looking at were all within 300 square feet of one another, but yes, if they were bigger for the same amount of money, that's a good reason to cost more.

There are a lot of apartment here with only side to side neighbors. My sister just moved in to one; I actually thought it was a townhouse at first and asked if she was renting a sublet unit.

Paint is really NBD. My friends were fined $150 for putting up 3" Christmas window clings and fined again for having a hummingbird feeder, so that was what I was thinking in terms of PITA restrictions. The association had said no bird SEED so they thought it was OK, but no. That kind of "make the rules as we go" crap would make me furious.

[candreco]

Jan 23, 2013 13:12:45 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I live in NOVA and actually had a similar question this morning while looking at a 700K TH. But in the end, that 700K TH was built in 2012 and is gorgeous and the 700K SFH was built in 1900. So there is that.

I'm in NoVA as well, and this is one of the biggest differences in this area- townhouses are almost always newer than nearby SFH that are similarly sized, and less expensive because you're not paying for as much land.  A lot also come with extra amenities like playgrounds, pools, tennis courts, etc.  The one we sold over the summer did have an HOA, but was not a condo in the sense that we did our own exterior maintenance, yard work, shoveling, etc.

And also what cville said.  They're a more efficient use of space, espeically in areas like this with high population densities.

[Deleted]

^^ Some people have those restriction in SFH developments with HOAs.

Just FYI.

[mamasaurus]

Jan 23, 2013 13:14:31 GMT -5 @lazerus24 said:

Some of the townhomes in my area are beyond gorgeous.

I love the townhome we live in, although we rent. We have yard to play in and pretty landscaping with lots and lots of sidewalks for DS to rids his bike and we don't have to upkeep any of it. We only share one wall of one bedroom (we are an end unit). The house has lots and lots of upgrades (granite, whirlpool tub, massive closets). The amenities are like living at a resort. The pool and hot tub are beautiful and there is an entire grilling area with huge range top gas grills for our use. There is a 24/7 security guard that patrols the grounds all day and night. A built in car washing area. A playground. Our own attached gargae It is gated with a clubhouse. And on top of all of that it is in the most desirable area of town.

We could not get what we have in this rental for the same price if we tried to rent a single family house in a similar community. It would probably be $300-$400 more.

Granted, we got a steal on our rent price and we don't own so we aren't paying the HOA fees, but come on, you can't see why that ^ would be appealing to own?!?!

Oh, and my townhome is three stories. Garage and entrance on first, master, office, dining and living (including laundry room) on second, and the other two bedrooms on the third.

Our townhouse also has 4 bathrooms. I love it. We are considering buying it.

That does sound awesome, especially the playground. I am starting to think they suck at townhomes around here.

[fuckyourcouch]

Jan 23, 2013 13:13:50 GMT -5 mamasaurus said:

Jan 23, 2013 13:11:53 GMT -5 fuckyourcouch said:

we almost bought one. i love the three story floorplan ones, absolutely love. there are some beautiful, modern ones in this city that are 100% up my alley style wise, price wise, and location wise.

in the end, the only reason we didn't is because there was not a practical way to be able to let the dog outside without a leash/supervision, and that sucks (for us). and we assumed the resale would be tricky.

Three stories?!? That's another thing we don't have here, at least, not that I have seen.

yep. first story is garage, utility room/mudroom, storage, etc. also porch and exterior front door.
second story is living room, kitchen, the one we were looking at was an end unit with a fireplace and wraparound porch off the living room. there was also a bathroom on this floor.
third story is bedrooms and bathrooms (master and secondary).

the other thing we didn't like was no basement, and the HOA fees were a bit steep. but we loved the unit.

[lilafowler]

ETA: This was in response to ninjabride:

I AM laughing at you! I'd switch places with you if I wasn't a South Shore girl at heart.

[mamasaurus]

Jan 23, 2013 13:14:33 GMT -5 revolution said:

In my area, I am convinced it is just that they prefer to not have a yard or to have a small yard.

I don't live in an urban area and the townhouses are in walking distance to precisely nothing.

The cost of a townhouse is pretty much the same per square foot as a new house here.

When we were looking at buying a house, we were baffled by the townhouses in this area too - same price, same condition, less privacy. We could only assume the townhouse owners preferred to not take care of a yard.

I get where you are coming from if your area/market is like it is here.

Aha! Your market is the only one I know anything about at all aside from my own, because I was at one point considering moving to be closer to my dad. I think we are getting the short end of the townhome stick.