Weeping cherry or mulberry or similar

[Deleted]

Do you have any weeping plant?  How do you like it?

I've been proposing to H to plant a weeping cherry at the front of the new house in the planting area in front of the front porch.  He's not 100% convinced it's the best one to put there.  He says it will block the front porch.  Of course, the image that always comes to mind is the following:



I have no idea how it will look over time.  LOL.    I'm not sure if it can be pruned to stay looking like the above.  I've seen crappy weeping plants, but I'm assuming it to be due to crazy pruning.

Anyway, I need a nice plant for that part of the house.  Flowering would be preferred.  And it has to have some height.

Is there a particular weeping plant that stays small (maybe at ~6-7ft height max)?

[Deleted]

Honestly, I despise any plant or tree that weeps. We had a few weeping willows in the barnyard we took down. They don't withstand wind and drops leaves and branches like crazy. The incessant mess drove me nuts. They were also impossible to prune decently without spending a fortune or taking forever.

I don't know where you live, but if you like that look is a flowering crab tree an option? They don't get too huge, they prune easily, get pretty blossoms but are sturdy and don't make a mess at all.

[Deleted]

Hmmm... I don't really want a tree. But want something that is not just green (or no leaves). The planting area is close to the house, so I wouldn't want a tree. And H doesn't want to block the porch.

[Deleted]

I've been looking at pics online. It seems like a japanese maple may be a better option. They are expensive though. Maybe we'll get a cheap weeping thing for now and replace it with a japanese maple later.

[susieq]

Mar 1, 2013 12:32:14 GMT -5 d0ri said:

I've been looking at pics online. It seems like a japanese maple may be a better option. They are expensive though. Maybe we'll get a cheap weeping thing for now and replace it with a japanese maple later.

Just be careful of the cultivar of japanese maple that you purchase.  There are some that stay very small but they will also be very expensive.  This is because they grow so  slowly it takes many years to get a sizable plant.  There are also many that get rather large. 

I would stay away from a mulberry.  They will produce fruit once they become mature and that can be a pain to deal with especially if they are near a walkway. 

[jhawks482]

I'm ok with weeping willows (appearance wise) but I think those weeping cherries are god-awfully ugly (with flowers//leaves and especially without) and as a lover of trees I don't say that hardly about any tree. Personally, I wouldn't plant one with the intention of it being temporary. Trees aren't temporary.
A Japanese maple would be an option, but you need to be facing the right direction (or at the very least, have afternoon and evening shade) because they can be tricky to grow. They aren't like other maples. What about a crepe Myrtle? They do get fairly big (like 20 feet) but wouldn't block much if pruned like a tree.
Try paging treedimentional if she doesn't respond here- her advice is great and she might be able to recommend something great for you!

[Deleted]

Mar 1, 2013 13:24:56 GMT -5 susieq said:

Just be careful of the cultivar of japanese maple that you purchase.  There are some that stay very small but they will also be very expensive.  This is because they grow so  slowly it takes many years to get a sizable plant.  There are also many that get rather large. 

I would stay away from a mulberry.  They will produce fruit once they become mature and that can be a pain to deal with especially if they are near a walkway. 

Thanks for the feedback. I saw a tamukeyama laceleaf maple at the nursery earlier this week. I think it has a $250 price tag on it. And it wasn't very big.

Oh, thanks for the info on the mulberry.

Mar 1, 2013 13:30:46 GMT -5 jhawks482 said:

I'm ok with weeping willows (appearance wise) but I think those weeping cherries are god-awfully ugly (with flowers//leaves and especially without) and as a lover of trees I don't say that hardly about any tree. Personally, I wouldn't plant one with the intention of it being temporary. Trees aren't temporary.
A Japanese maple would be an option, but you need to be facing the right direction (or at the very least, have afternoon and evening shade) because they can be tricky to grow. They aren't like other maples. What about a crepe Myrtle? They do get fairly big (like 20 feet) but wouldn't block much if pruned like a tree.
Try paging treedimentional if she doesn't respond here- her advice is great and she might be able to recommend something great for you!

LOL. OK. I just like the flowers.

Oh, good! The area gets an afternoon/evening shade. It's only in the morning and early afternoon (~1pm) that it gets full sun.

H doesn't like crepe myrtle. But I guess I'll mention it when we meet with the landscaper. It could be our cheapest option for now until we get the $$$ Japanese maple. LOL.

ETA....  treedimentional?  I have not seen her post here on H&G.  Do you think I can page her here and she'll see it?  Or should I page her somewhere else?

[nikolita]

I have a weeping mulberry tree in my front yard and I like it. Its only about 5 feet tall and the branches don't really have a whole lot of girth...

My only advice is to never put a crabapple tree or anything with berries where there is foot traffic or where kids play. It tracks in on shoes and stains things. We had one in the front yard of a rental and it drove me CRAZY!!!

[jhawks482]

Yes, TD posts here, mainly when the topic of landscaping/trees comes up. You could page her here or on the gardening subpage.

[megs68]

We have this tree in our front yard and I hate it! It looks gorgeous like your picture for maybe two weeks in the spring and the rest of the time it just looks droopy and unkept. It is hard to mow under too, since the branches hang down. The leaves are not a vibrant green either, they're like a yellowy-gray-green color. ugh.

[auntie]

Not a huge fan of the weeping cherry. They were very popular around the time my house was built, but then so were mauve, mullets and shoulder pads. Oh, and the goose wearing a muffler wallpaper borders.

My neighbor across the street has a beautifully kept one in his side yard- that puppy is huge. Like too big to be that corner tree anchoring your landscape. He has to trim suckers at the base as well as the shoots that pop up each years as new growth to maintain the weeping shape. The guy on the next street didn't and his tree sort of looks like it's having a bad hair day.

I don't care for Crepe Myrtle either. How about a magnolia? I have a Jane that'll grow to about 15-18'H and can be trained as a multi-trunk tree or left to be more shrub-like. It blooms a little on the late side, isn't bothered by frost or snow. Blooms over a period of weeks and isn't so dense it blocks a lot of light.

I also have a Stewartia which is pretty spindly and pretty. It's very slow growing. It blooms in June which is pretty cool.

[treedimensional]

Hey- if you don't want a tree, why are you even asking about a weeping cherry?
Why not get a weeping peashrub or a tree hydrangea? Or a Physocarpus standard? There are so many options for small, flowering weeping shrubs.
Where do you live?

[Deleted]

Mar 2, 2013 21:37:44 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

Hey- if you don't want a tree, why are you even asking about a weeping cherry?
Why not get a weeping peashrub or a tree hydrangea? Or a Physocarpus standard? There are so many options for small, flowering weeping shrubs.
Where do you live?

Thanks for replying. I need something with height, preferably in the 5-6ft max height. I've seen so many people who planted some weeping plant 2ft from their house. I guess a part of me is assuming some dont really grow into trees?

Oh, and it doesn't have to be a weeping thing. We really like the camellia japonica (love the flowers!) but we feel it doesn't belong at the front of the hoise and be the focal point.

Thanks, I'll check your recommendations.

We just spoke to a landscaper and went through the plants/trees we like. He said he'll check on the Japanese maple and see if he can get it for a great price. He highly recommends it for the space in the front yard.

Here's a snapshot of the landscape plan. The one marked "D" is the plant/tree in question. It's about 5-7ft from the house.

[treedimensional]

Ugh, not another maple.
Please plant something else. The world doesn't need any more maples.
Japanese maples are just maples. There is nothing exotic about them. They're overprices maples.
Now I will step down from my maple soapbox.
Seriously, there are so many choices. Is your landscape guy educated? Does he have a relevant college degree? Horticulture? Biology? Landscape Design? Environmental Studies? Or is he just another low-bid, mow and blow company (undervaluing my profession)?
Is he able to recommend other things? Things that Home Depot doesn't sell? Does he know anything about design principles?
Before you trust him with this, find out if he's actually qualified to offer such advice.
I just don't want you to get screwed!

[Deleted]

Mar 2, 2013 22:51:24 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

Ugh, not another maple.
Please plant something else. The world doesn't need any more maples.
Japanese maples are just maples. There is nothing exotic about them. They're overprices maples.
Now I will step down from my maple soapbox.
Seriously, there are so many choices. Is your landscape guy educated? Does he have a relevant college degree? Horticulture? Biology? Landscape Design? Environmental Studies? Or is he just another low-bid, mow and blow company (undervaluing my profession)?
Is he able to recommend other things? Things that Home Depot doesn't sell? Does he know anything about design principles?
Before you trust him with this, find out if he's actually qualified to offer such advice.
I just don't want you to get screwed!

LOL.  Honestly, I don't know much about his background. All I know is he's in the landscaping business. His opinion, he doesn't think a weeping cherry is good enough for the space when I mentioned it as one of the things I've considered. 

Any suggestion for the "D" in the drawing? Here's my lame mockup of the landscape. The "D" is the red Japanese maple in the pic.

[treedimensional]

Good morning again.
I asked about his credentials because most people working as "landscapers" or "landscape contractors" have none. On the job experience doesn't make up for lack of continuing education.
Did you have a chance to look at the Physocapus standard and the tree hydrangea? Or the Siberian peashrub? What did you think? Because I can make more suggestions when I have time to log on and check back here.
I also have some issues with the design. You need something between the two windows on the right. What are the foundation plants? Japanese holly or boxwood? And are the other things arborvitae? You need native flowers. I can't see the whole thing, but this looks like a man-made desert (cannot support life in the bottom food chain- not sustainable). There's too much lawn and not enough trees, shrubs, and flowers.

[Deleted]

treedimensional. Can you PIP which physocapus? Is it the diabolo? Is it a shrub?

Is there a good website to look at pics and plant description (height, etc)?

The tree hydrangea looks very pretty, and also the syberian pea shrub. I'll ask the landscaper about them.

On my lame mock up, I used emerald green arborvitae, a row of compacta holly, blue star juniper and the Japanese maple. The landscaper recommended to replace the holly with azaleas, and leave/make some space for annuals. That's just what's right next to the house.

Away from the house, we also plan on having a group of 3-4 roses. Then along one side of the driveway and around the mailbox, we talked about planting verbena. Use english laurel around the electrical transformer. Plus 2 trees at the front. H wants October glory maple or bald cypress for the trees. I don't want either of the trees since I feel they will grow too big to cover the house.

Oh, and in the future we want to add planting area along the other side of the walkway. That's the main reason we're focusing on shrubs that doesn't turn into sticks in the winter for the ones right next to the house. We want something that stays green all year long. Then for the other side of the walkway, we can use non-boring plants in the future. That's H an I's thought process. Is it a good one??? I have no idea.

[Deleted]

What would you recommend between the windows on the right? There's only a 3ft space between the house and walkway so we can't really put a shrub/tree/plant (flowering/not) that grows wide. That's the reason we chose an arborvitae to have some height.

[treedimensional]

www.panoramicfarm.com/catalog/plant/physocarpus-opulifolius-seward-pp-14-821-summer-wine-r-common-ninebark-10-wholesale-nursery-grower

Google "physocarpus standard" images to see more. Yes, it's a shrub because you stated a couple of times that you wanted something pretty small (5'-6') so that would be a small/medium shrub.

I've already expressed my opinion about maples in general, but if I had to choose the WORST POSSIBLE maples, they would, without any doubt, be Autumn Blaze and October Glory. I can't begin to list all the reasons why these are such horrible, man-made mutant trees. If I had to give you one simple rule to follow, it would be to avoid planting anything that is sold at any big box or discount stores. Bald cypress is great, but even better would be to plant two different species that nobody else in the neighborhood has planted.

For the narrow space betwwen those two right windows, you could do a Little Gem Magnolia and prune it to the wall, like an espalier. They look great that way. Also may other options for that space. Pyracantha would be fantastic there as well (and I don't particularly even like Pyracantha, so that's saying a lot).

If the landscaper suggested using Encore azaleas instead of Japanese holly or boxwood for a foundation plant, I agree with that, because they flower profusely and it's CRITICAL to provide food for bees and other insects.

[pickle123]

What about a magnolia tree? We have one that will produce yellow flowers in our front yard.

[pickle123]

Ahhh never mind. That wouldn't work so close to the house. Knockout roses? Althea (sp) bush?

[treedimensional]

Oh, and you need at least a few LARGE trees. Just don't place them directly in front of the entryway, for design reasons. But your house is large and very grand- you NEED big trees to play up the size and stature of your large, stately house. Big trees are in the correct scale. Then, you fill in the understory with layers of smaller trees and shrubs, then add flowers and other low growing stuff.

[susieq]

Mar 3, 2013 13:55:34 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

For the narrow space betwwen those two right windows, you could do a Little Gem Magnolia and prune it to the wall, like an espalier. They look great that way. Also may other options for that space.

Really?  She only has three feet of space there.  While I agree something needs to be there keeping that large of a tree contained in that small of a space will quickly become daunting unless one is an avid gardener and enjoys pruning constantly.  It will also impact maintenance of the house. 

In my educated opinion I would have the planting bed cross over the sidewalk into the yard.  You could then plant something to give some height w/o having to worry about constant upkeep.  I dont know where you live so I cannot give specific suggestions as to your zone. 

In place of the japanese maple in that alcove to the right of the door have you considered something sculptural?  Even an over sized birdbath with smaller plantings around the base would work.  Again I dont know what zone you are in or what direction the house faces so I will not give any suggestions. 

In my area most landscape designers will be associated with reputable garden centers.  I would start there if you want another quote.  If they do not have someone they work with they will be able to recommend someone.

[susieq]

This is where I would go if I were designing the landscape for the area that I live in.
I would swing the bed way out on the left side of the house to be able to plant something of some size there. This will help to balance out the scale of the house being larger on the right side due to the garage(?). If you like the Little Gem Magnoilas this is where I would put one as long as it is far enough away(8+/- feet)from the house.

I do not mind the solid green foundation plantings as long as there is color elsewhere in the landscape. See if the holly 'Carissa' or Dwarf Yaupon do well in your area. They tend to grow to a more pleasing shape naturally and are not used as prolifically in landscaping. You can also get some color in variegated leaf patterns. Two shrubs that I really enjoy are Osmanthus 'Goshiki' and Osmanthus 'Variegatus'

[treedimensional]

Mar 3, 2013 14:13:51 GMT -5 susieq said:

Mar 3, 2013 13:55:34 GMT -5 treedimensional said:

For the narrow space betwwen those two right windows, you could do a Little Gem Magnolia and prune it to the wall, like an espalier. They look great that way. Also may other options for that space.

Really?  She only has three feet of space there.  While I agree something needs to be there keeping that large of a tree contained in that small of a space will quickly become daunting unless one is an avid gardener and enjoys pruning constantly.  It will also impact maintenance of the house.  

Yes, really. She has 3' feet of space between the house and the sidewalk in one direction, and many more feet side to side to allow for root extension. Most Little Gem magnolias only get about 12'-15' tall and an espaliered one could easily be maintained at 10'. I have one espaliered between my fence and my driveway in a similarly confined space that's doing very well, and there are 5 of them growing flat against a brick wall at Lewis Ginter Botanical Garden in Virginia. It is not such as fast growth tree that it requires pruning more than once a year, and it wouldn't be subject to wind shear if it's against a wall. That's my educated opinion.

[Deleted]

treedimensional and susieq --- I forgot to mention that the house is not complete and still missing details like window shutters.  After the shutters are placed, the exposed white brick between the windows on the right is only going to be ~4ft wide.

treedimensional ---  with the additional info above, I think a Little Gem Magnolia may be too wide for the space.  Btw, can you PIP your espalier little gem magnolia?  I'm curios. 

Is a Pyracantha a vine?

With the new info above, any new suggestion for the space?

When you say LARGE trees, how large?  My problem with large trees though is that, we have a small lot.    We had to sacrifice lot size for convenience/driving distance.  We could have built on a 2acre lot and added 10min to our commute, but the 10min was not worth it for us after adding total driving distance per day.  Anyway, from the walkway at the front of the house, we only have ~36ft of space to the street.  And from the driveway to the edge of our yard, we only have ~60ft.  So not very big front yard.  And with this tiny front yard, it may look odd to plant 2 different trees.  Would it? 

pickle123 ---  I'll check out the althea.  The flowers look awesome.

susieq ---  Thanks for asking what I thought about when I read little gem magnolia and espalier.    I'm at zone 6b (using plantmaps.com).

Regarding something sculptural, I prefer to stick with plants and not get into HOA taste preferences.  Not sure if you saw my post about them questioning our garage doors.  Ugh!

Thanks for the nice design.  We're definitely thinking about expanding the planting area in the future.  For now though, we're focusing on a nice base or phase 1 landscape.  We are focusing on minimum landscaping and get the house ready for us to move and settle in before baby #2 arrives.

The pink flamingo?  HOA will be calling me as soon as the flamingo hits the ground.  LOL.  I love flower boxes on windows!  Nobody else has one in the neighborhood.  I bet HOA will say no though. 

Thanks for the additional suggestions.    I'll look at them further.

[Deleted]

susieq --- Does the Osmanthus 'Goshiki' have pointy leaves? And the Osmanthus 'Variegatus' doesn't have pointy leaves?

[susieq]

Mar 4, 2013 10:13:28 GMT -5 d0ri said:

Is a Pyracantha a vine?

Pyracantha is technically a shrub.  It has long thin branches and can easily be manipulated into different shapes and forms.  This has a good picture of espalier. 

When you say LARGE trees, how large?  My problem with large trees though is that, we have a small lot.    We had to sacrifice lot size for convenience/driving distance.  We could have built on a 2acre lot and added 10min to our commute, but the 10min was not worth it for us after adding total driving distance per day.  Anyway, from the walkway at the front of the house, we only have ~36ft of space to the street.  And from the driveway to the edge of our yard, we only have ~60ft.  So not very big front yard.  And with this tiny front yard, it may look odd to plant 2 different trees.  Would it? 

You might only have space for one in the immediate front.  However to the side of the house or in the back are other options.  W/o seeing a picture of the entire lot it can be difficult to visualize.  I do not like large trees planted within 20 feet of each other or the house. 

susieq ---  Thanks for asking what I thought about when I read little gem magnolia and espalier.    I'm at zone 6b (using plantmaps.com).

I am getting mixed results when I google the hardiness zone of the little gem magnolia.  Most are saying zone 7 and warmer.  I would ask at a garden center and see what they say. 

Regarding something sculptural, I prefer to stick with plants and not get into HOA taste preferences.  Not sure if you saw my post about them questioning our garage doors.  Ugh!

The pink flamingo?  HOA will be calling me as soon as the flamingo hits the ground.  LOL.  I love flower boxes on windows!  Nobody else has one in the neighborhood.  I bet HOA will say no though. 

I was picking with the flamingo.  I dont have a lot of sculptural things to pull from in the design program that I have at home.  (There is also a poster on MM that used to post pics of them on a regular basis).  I do remember the garage doors.  Sticking with plants might be your best bet! 

Thanks for the additional suggestions.    I'll look at them further.

Both of the Osmanthus have prickly leaves   I have them planted here and my kids dont mess with them...

[treedimensional]

Google images of "espalier magnolia little gem" and you'll see tons of examples.
This site has images of espaliered Little Gem and Pyracantha: erthturf.com/AllAboutEspalier.html
My advice is based on known info, and the assumption that most people prefer low maintenance plants; it fits these criteria. I do agree that the planting beds should be much larger and not merely outlines of existing hardscape features.

Pyracantha is not a vine. Google "pyracantha" for detailed info.

My only new suggestion would be to limit the trees to "medium" (under 40') based on space.
I don't think two trees would look odd at all in that abount of space (I have 3 in an even smaller space in front of my house).

Osmanthus has spiney foliage. Google images for details. It is lovely and fragrant, however.

Althea is attractive, very fast growing, and host to a wide range of insects and diseases.

[treedimensional]

A word about USDA hardiness zones: the criteria used by the USDA for determining hardiness zones was amended during the G.W. Bush administration to become LESS accurate.
In the past, hardiness zones were redrawn using temperature information gathered over the previous decade.
When new temperature readings indicated that the zones were becoming hotter much faster than anyone anticipated, the Bush administration mandated that USDA create NEW zones, using 30 years of previous data, rather than only 10. This way, updated zone maps factor in the significantly cooler temperatures from 30 years ago. The current zone maps reflect this inaccuracy, and give the appearance that warming has slowed very dramatically.
Take the current USDA hardiness zone maps with a grain of salt. It's warmer than that.