WI Peeps, how is the recall looking?

[y4m]

Jun 5, 2012 21:23:07 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Oh, and to add insult to injury, the Cubs are beating the Brewers 6-0. The fucking Cubs! Fuck it all today. Just fuck it all.

CUBS SUCK!!!

[y4m]

Jun 5, 2012 21:23:10 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I don't have a dog in the fight, but what bothers me is all the out of state money and the Koch brothers supporting him. It's gross.

Why is what Koch Industries does in elections so much more upsetting to you than what unions do?

[druidp]

Jun 5, 2012 21:23:10 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I don't have a dog in the fight, but what bothers me is all the out of state money and the Koch brothers supporting him. It's gross.

One could say money supporting unions over the top is equally gross. But if the Brewers are indeed losing... oh well.

[Deleted]

Koch brothers, unions, whatever. Walker got far and away more out of state money than Barrett.

My household will always hate Walker. He tried to slash my salary to 10 bucks an hour a couple of years ago, and my "overpaid" (bullshit) husband brings home about 3 grand less each year thanks to Walker. Plus, the WI GOP is now on an anti-gay crusade, and Kleefisch is a wackjob homophobe. So yeah, Walker can eat a bag of dicks.

[KaraOrNot]

Jun 5, 2012 21:32:14 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

My household will always hate Walker. He tried to slash my salary to 10 bucks an hour a couple of years ago, and my "overpaid" (bullshit) husband brings home about 3 grand less each year thanks to Walker.

I just want to ditto everything you are saying. I haven't had a raise in years and take home less than I did years ago. I guess I should be greatful that I don't have to pay my union dues?

[MrsAxilla]

I'm probably going to say something grossly ill-informed, and I don't have much experience with unions, but in general I'm in favor of workers' rights and union representation. Collective bargaining units elect their own representatives and get to vote on how the union represents them. Even workers who are unhappy that they have to be in the union theoretically have a say (sort of like our democracy is supposed to work). I'm not sure how strong the argument is that unions have too much power when a couple of rich guys can outspend them 8-1. The way it all went down in the first place was pretty political, and it wasn't exactly Wisconians (is that right? - lol) that were clamoring for change. I know money is speech and whoever yells the loudest and most often usually wins. I think the citizens of a state should have the power to make their own political decisions and when the vast majority of money is from outside the state, how exactly is that state best served? Just like Prop 8 and all the Mormans who don't even live in CA flexing their muscles to out-shout the people who live there - I just think its gross.

[dev22]

Jun 5, 2012 21:32:14 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Koch brothers, unions, whatever. Walker got far and away more out of state money than Barrett.

My household will always hate Walker. He tried to slash my salary to 10 bucks an hour a couple of years ago, and my "overpaid" (bullshit) husband brings home about 3 grand less each year thanks to Walker. Plus, the WI GOP is now on an anti-gay crusade, and Kleefisch is a wackjob homophobe. So yeah, Walker can eat a bag of dicks.

bNPR said Walker was allowed unrestricted donations (no limit on amount) because of a loophole that allows the governor to bypass campaign finance laws when they are being recalled. Because of that he was able to ridiculously outspend his opponent.

[y4m]

Wow--Walker got 36% of union households.

[josieposy]

Jun 5, 2012 21:47:37 GMT -5 y4m said:

Wow--Walker got 36% of union households.

I was just going to post this. Wow!

[druidp]

Jun 5, 2012 21:47:37 GMT -5 y4m said:

Wow--Walker got 36% of union households.

[msmerymac]

I actually hate the idea of a recall. But I also completely disagree with Walker. Conflicted...

[sporklemotion]

Jun 5, 2012 21:44:38 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I'm probably going to say something grossly ill-informed, and I don't have much experience with unions, but in general I'm in favor of workers' rights and union representation. Collective bargaining units elect their own representatives and get to vote on how the union represents them. Even workers who are unhappy that they have to be in the union theoretically have a say (sort of like our democracy is supposed to work). I'm not sure how strong the argument is that unions have too much power when a couple of rich guys can outspend them 8-1. The way it all went down in the first place was pretty political, and it wasn't exactly Wisconians (is that right? - lol) that were clamoring for change. I know money is speech and whoever yells the loudest and most often usually wins. I think the citizens of a state should have the power to make their own political decisions and when the vast majority of money is from outside the state, how exactly is that state best served? Just like Prop 8 and all the Mormans who don't even live in CA flexing their muscles to out-shout the people who live there - I just think its gross.

This is what I would have said if I'd had the words to. I'm pretty pro-union, though.

[IIOY]

Maybe Walker can send a clone to Philly. We need this.

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2012 5:55:03 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Maybe Walker can send a clone to Philly. We need this.

What? You want a smarmy college dropout who has half his administration facing a criminal investigation, who hates higher education, and who shits on working people? Please. This guy has made my life awful. You can do better than Scott fucking Walker.

[IIOY]

LOL, yeah, I'm not talking about his baggage, although I'm not sure anyone in Philly would bat an eye at most of this anyway. I confess to almost liking our current mayor, who seems far less insane and corrupt, and more intelligent, than the average Philly politician.

[marie427]

Jun 5, 2012 22:47:30 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

I actually hate the idea of a recall. But I also completely disagree with Walker. Conflicted...

This. Walker strikes me as a smarmy asshole but if I were a Wisconsinite(?), I don't think I would've shown up at the polls because I don't like recalls and wouldn't want to participate in one.

[Rainy Night in Soho]

Jun 6, 2012 6:18:12 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Jun 6, 2012 5:55:03 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Maybe Walker can send a clone to Philly. We need this.

What? You want a smarmy college dropout who has half his administration facing a criminal investigation, who hates higher education, and who shits on working people? Please. This guy has made my life awful. You can do better than Scott fucking Walker.

My husband works for UW. He got a raise last summer, but his net pay was still hundreds less per month bc of increases in employee contributions for retirement and health care costs (and his health care sucked anyway since we live out of network).

We were on vacation last week in the north woods- and 75% of the signs we saw driving were homemade Barrett signs!

[2curlydogs]

Jun 5, 2012 21:47:37 GMT -5 y4m said:

Wow--Walker got 36% of union households.

I would wager those would be the police and firefighter unions whose jobs and collective barganing rights he protected. ETA: At the expense of teachers, nurses, etc. But, oh! Budget crisis! Collective barganing is sucking the state dry!

And people are missing the big news story - they've called Racine County for John Lehman. Which means the balance of power has shifted in the state senate to the dems.

There'll be a recount, of course, but I'm pretty confident it'll stick.

So, suck it, Walker. Lets see you try and ram thru any legislation now, you jackass.

ETA: Also, my H refused to sign the recall petition because he, too, is opposed to recalls. But he also figured that since the recall petition went thru with such an overwhelming number (1/4 of the state's voting population, I think) that the people had spoken. So he voted.

And we're in Racine County. So HA! SUCK IT! SUCK IT HARD SENATE REPUBLICANS!

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2012 6:56:54 GMT -5 Rainy Night in Soho said:

Jun 6, 2012 6:18:12 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

What? You want a smarmy college dropout who has half his administration facing a criminal investigation, who hates higher education, and who shits on working people? Please. This guy has made my life awful. You can do better than Scott fucking Walker.

My husband works for UW. He got a raise last summer, but his net pay was still hundreds less per month bc of increases in employee contributions for retirement and health care costs (and his health care sucked anyway since we live out of network).

We were on vacation last week in the north woods- and 75% of the signs we saw driving were homemade Barrett signs!

I'm trying to educate myself more on political issues so I'm actually informed when I vote, but I wanted to talk about your statement since the Federal Government is also looking to raise employee contributions for retirement. How much did yours change and does it not bother you that there isn't enough money to fund the benefits you will get at retirement? Where should it come from otherwise?
Also, health care costs are rising across the board-not just for union employees, and some of that has to do with the Obama Healthcare reform. Do you think you could get better benefits as a private payer or thru your employer?
Do you think this wouldn't have happened if WI had a Democrat in the governors office?

[2curlydogs]

Jun 6, 2012 8:28:22 GMT -5 flygirl said:

Do you think this wouldn't have happened if WI had a Democrat in the governors office?

It probably would have, but not in the manner that Walker took.

Since you want to educate yourself, this is what he did. He fabricated a "budget crisis" by granting massive tax cuts to corporations under the guise of creating jobs (which it hasn't). Then he claimed that the only way to make up the shortfall was to cut collective bargaining rights. But only the rights of teachers, nurses, public defenders, etc. police and fire were exempt because he knew the move would cause a massive uproar and also because those unions donated heavily to his '10 campaign.

He then also cut funding to public education, public health services, sanitation, infrastructure, veteran services, etc.etc.

He the failed to deliver on the 250,000 new jobs he claimed his tax cuts would deliver. By any math, whether you believe the supposed jobs numbers he campaigned on in the recall or not, he failed miserably.

The legislature has also ramrodded thru several controversial bills on voter id, limiting what doctors can talk to their patients about with regards to abortion, what services they can provide, etc. etc.

In the meantime, like angry harpy said, half of his administration is implicated and/or indicted on campaign finance and corruption charges and Walker himself has been implicated as knowing it was happening.

Just to give you a small taste of the background here. I can't cite my sources but they're all out there from unbiased sources. I'd start with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

[Deleted]

Ditto 2curlydogs. And as for the benefits of public employees, please remember that he didn't just increase the cost of benefits. He gutted their collective bargaining rights even though the unions AGREED TO THE CONCESSIONS.

I can only speak to my family, but my husband gets paid SHIT to educate people's precious little snowflakes who lie and cheat their way through college. The biggest bright spot was that we got cheap healthcare and a nice contribution to his pension. He can make significantly more in the private sector, and he likely will be leaving academia in the next year or two.

Good luck finding qualified, dedicated people to put up with the politics of higher education as the budgets continue to be gutted, class sizes go up, and they are promised things like the glamorous salary of $36,000 minus significant contributions to their health insurance and pensions and almost no support for research or professional development.

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2012 9:06:54 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Ditto 2curlydogs. And as for the benefits of public employees, please remember that he didn't just increase the cost of benefits. He gutted their collective bargaining rights even though the unions AGREED TO THE CONCESSIONS.

I can only speak to my family, but my husband gets paid SHIT to educate people's precious little snowflakes who lie and cheat their way through college. The biggest bright spot was that we got cheap healthcare and a nice contribution to his pension. He can make significantly more in the private sector, and he likely will be leaving academia in the next year or two.
Good luck finding qualified, dedicated people to put up with the politics of higher education as the budgets continue to be gutted, class sizes go up, and they are promised things like the glamorous salary of $36,000 minus significant contributions to their health insurance and pensions and almost no support for research or professional development.

I'm glad he's leaving the educational field.

[secretlyevil]

I am sad for the Wisconite liberals.

[Deleted]

You really shouldn't be. He's great at what he does. I'm the one who hates his students. Those are my words, not his. Most of them are idiots with no sense of ethics.

But he's had six instances of plagiarism - that he caught - this semester alone. He's starting to conclude that his pittance of a salary isn't worth these headaches.

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2012 9:00:24 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

Jun 6, 2012 8:28:22 GMT -5 flygirl said:

Do you think this wouldn't have happened if WI had a Democrat in the governors office?

It probably would have, but not in the manner that Walker took.


He then also cut funding to public education, public health services, sanitation, infrastructure, veteran services, etc.etc.

He the failed to deliver on the 250,000 new jobs he claimed his tax cuts would deliver. By any math, whether you believe the supposed jobs numbers he campaigned on in the recall or not, he failed miserably.

The legislature has also ramrodded thru several controversial bills on voter id, limiting what doctors can talk to their patients about with regards to abortion, what services they can provide, etc. etc.

But this is what I'm having a hard time understanding. This is happening nation wide, no? Wasn't Obama just lambasted for not creating the jobs he said he would? This seems like the cart before the horse to me. Everyone wants funding for all these services, but no one is willing to raise taxes to pay for it. I understand giving tax cuts to companies takes away some of this money, but at the same time, in my state, many companies are leaving because of the high tax rate. In fact, they just cut jobs at Hutchinson Technologies here and are adding them in Wisconsin from what I understand. Everyone seems to tought that they are fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. To me the two can not be used together, unless you are saying we want fund programs in a fiscally conservative way-but does that ever happen? I doubt it. There is so much waste, and it makes me sad.

[secretlyevil]

Jun 6, 2012 5:55:03 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Maybe Walker can send a clone to Philly. We need this.

You can Rick Scott - I'm not sure who's approval rating is lower today - Scott or Walker. They seem to trade off.

[2curlydogs]

Jun 6, 2012 9:17:06 GMT -5 flygirl said:

Jun 6, 2012 9:00:24 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

It probably would have, but not in the manner that Walker took.


He then also cut funding to public education, public health services, sanitation, infrastructure, veteran services, etc.etc.

He the failed to deliver on the 250,000 new jobs he claimed his tax cuts would deliver. By any math, whether you believe the supposed jobs numbers he campaigned on in the recall or not, he failed miserably.

The legislature has also ramrodded thru several controversial bills on voter id, limiting what doctors can talk to their patients about with regards to abortion, what services they can provide, etc. etc.

But this is what I'm having a hard time understanding. This is happening nation wide, no? Wasn't Obama just lambasted for not creating the jobs he said he would?

WI had drastically lagged behind the rest of the nation in jobs creation. In fact, they have seen negative job growth in the private sector for the last 6 or 7 months while the rest of the nation was posting decent positive numbers.

The housing market also just posted something like a 28% foreclosure rate last month.

So, no. This isn't happening nationwide. WI is lagging horribly in recovery and has been since Walker took office.

I could talk about this all day but, unfortunately, I have a major presentation today and tomorrow so i'll be otherwise occupied...

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2012 9:06:54 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Ditto 2curlydogs. And as for the benefits of public employees, please remember that he didn't just increase the cost of benefits. He gutted their collective bargaining rights even though the unions AGREED TO THE CONCESSIONS.

I can only speak to my family, but my husband gets paid SHIT to educate people's precious little snowflakes who lie and cheat their way through college. The biggest bright spot was that we got cheap healthcare and a nice contribution to his pension. He can make significantly more in the private sector, and he likely will be leaving academia in the next year or two.

Good luck finding qualified, dedicated people to put up with the politics of higher education as the budgets continue to be gutted, class sizes go up, and they are promised things like the glamorous salary of $36,000 minus significant contributions to their health insurance and pensions and almost no support for research or professional development.

I recently read something about how back in the late 80s, early 90s the Federal Government had a hard time finding people to fill positions since you could make so much more in the private sector. They raised wages and benefits (not to the extent of the private sector) and it helped fill those positions. I find it ironic how many people are complaining now that people who work for the Federal government make too much, etc etc not that jobs in the private sector are floundering. Even the POTUS is slashing their wages. I want to find a candidate that truly addresses the jobs issue, taxes and helping the low and middle class. Does one exist???
ETA: I know I'm all over the place with my arguments but it seems there are so many things where one is damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

[y4m]

WI had drastically lagged behind the rest of the nation in jobs creation. In fact, they have seen negative job growth in the private sector for the last 6 or 7 months while the rest of the nation was posting decent positive numbers.

The housing market also just posted something like a 28% foreclosure rate last month.

So, no. This isn't happening nationwide. WI is lagging horribly in recovery and has been since Walker took office.

I could talk about this all day but, unfortunately, I have a major presentation today and tomorrow so i'll be otherwise occupied...

I thought I just read WI has lower unemployment than the national average?

[ttt]

Jun 6, 2012 9:14:14 GMT -5 @french75 said:

Jun 6, 2012 9:06:54 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Ditto 2curlydogs. And as for the benefits of public employees, please remember that he didn't just increase the cost of benefits. He gutted their collective bargaining rights even though the unions AGREED TO THE CONCESSIONS.

I can only speak to my family, but my husband gets paid SHIT to educate people's precious little snowflakes who lie and cheat their way through college. The biggest bright spot was that we got cheap healthcare and a nice contribution to his pension. He can make significantly more in the private sector, and he likely will be leaving academia in the next year or two.
Good luck finding qualified, dedicated people to put up with the politics of higher education as the budgets continue to be gutted, class sizes go up, and they are promised things like the glamorous salary of $36,000 minus significant contributions to their health insurance and pensions and almost no support for research or professional development.

I'm glad he's leaving the educational field.

Why? Because he wants to make more than $30k? Are teachers supposed to just teach out of the goodness of their hearts and not care about paying their electric bills or feeding their families?