Update: Alternatives to GU, Chomps, Sport Beans, etc.

[gumi]

With a good diet, you can get 90 min of hard activity in. So, for a 2+ hours run, you do need fuel (starting at 45 min). But what you eat befor and after you runs is more important. Even powerbar advocates using real food first. No gels for breakfast! This is why weight loss and endurance events don't work together.

Sent from my SCH-I605

[Brit]

Update in OP. Clif's Notes: I tried ebeth's suggestion of super strength Gatorade plus foundmylazybum's idea of eating extra carbs for several days leading up to the long run, not just the night before. I didn't bonk. I'm not sure which component of that helped me, but I'll just keep both up since it worked.

[patches31709]

Jun 4, 2013 13:20:17 GMT -5 gumi said:

Jun 4, 2013 11:31:04 GMT -5 sadlebred said:

I think eating solid food is easier on the bike than running, brit.....

The problem while running is the digestion.  It takes too much energy to break down and digest things like peanut butter or figs.  A banana may be OK....I would like to see someone run with a banana in their pocket, hahahaha.  

Basically, digestion while running = gas in your tummy = bloated and crampy = do you dare to fart?  i think 99% who crap themselves only intend to fart.

During my last two HMs, I've had my DH hand me a peeled banana at the halfway point. I'm sure anyone that saw me with a banana for the next half mile or however long it took me to eat it was very confused.

[gumi]

Jun 7, 2013 7:22:45 GMT -5 Brit said:

Update in OP. Clif's Notes: I tried ebeth's suggestion of super strength Gatorade plus foundmylazybum's idea of eating extra carbs for several days leading up to the long run, not just the night before. I didn't bonk. I'm not sure which component of that helped me, but I'll just keep both up since it worked.

I wanted to go back to my "trainings" before posting any numbers, but here is what I have been taught regarding nutrition, specific to marathons:

- 8-12 grams of carbs daily for every 2.2lbs body weight (carbo loading a few days before a race)
- general daily carbs 5-10 grams per KG of bodyweight
- 1-4 grams of carbs per KG of weight 2-4 hours before training/racing
- 60-90 grams of carbs per hour when racing/training, appx every 20-45 minutes of racing/training. If you dont use a gel, but you use a solid (like a chomp) it's generally 1 piece every 10-15 minutes
- you should consume fluids to match the rate of sweat, which is generally 13-26oz every hour (you should not lose more than 2% of your bodyweight)
- use fuel which contains sodium
- paying attention to macnutrient intake in general since deficiencies make you feel fatigued
- 1 gram of carbs per KG of weight every hour for the first 4 hours post-exercise for recovery, along with 20 grams of protein within the first hour.   The faster you refill the tank, the faster you will recover.

I never have counted carbs, I have no idea where I fall in those numbers, but if you do count your carbs maybe that can give you guidance.   I just find if I eat a lot in general, I usually have plenty of energy.  BUT, I do not do marathons 

Re: only eating carbs the night before -
that IS one style of carbo loading.  It's actually a one day load (not one meal) and the amount of carbs you have to eat is INSANE for it to make any difference.  If I remember correctly, it's like 4,000 calories or something absurd.  

[Brit]

gumi - !!! You have my head spinning. So I put this into a spreadsheet to assess what it was asking of me, and, if I understand it correctly, I don't know if it is physically possible for me to eat enough high quality foods. I could probably get enough carbs/calories from junk food, but if we are talking clean eating style don't eat a load of crap...I don't know if I'm up for it. Without making myself crazy over counting carbs, I think it is safe to say that I should generally make carby food choices and that I should be sure to eat before and after exercise.

Speaking of recovery, for a long time I thought the chocolate milk after runs thing was a load of crap, but if I drink it on my way home from long runs or other hard workouts, my recovery is dramatically different from if I do not drink it. I'm solidly on Team Chocolate Milk now.

Re: The 4000 calorie carbo load, that is pretty much what I have heard as well. But, it seems a little bogus to me because if I am supposed to be able to store 5g of glycogen/kg of body weight, then I can probably store about 272g of glycogen (5g*54.5kg = 272g glycogen), so about 1000 calories. Granted not everything I eat is being stored as glycogen, but I can't imagine needing to eat 4000 calories to achieve that; I probably have a really lame and simplified understanding of how my body works though, so who knows?

[lavender444]

These are not at all pratical for long runs where you need to carry something, but my race over the weekend was handing these out at mile 9 and they were the most amazing thing I've ever had during a run. www.powerice.com/ Honey Stinger makes some good products, too. I have trouble with Gu but the HS products I was able to get down.

[gumi]

Jun 7, 2013 15:29:58 GMT -5 Brit said:

gumi - !!! You have my head spinning. So I put this into a spreadsheet to assess what it was asking of me, and, if I understand it correctly, I don't know if it is physically possible for me to eat enough high quality foods. I could probably get enough carbs/calories from junk food, but if we are talking clean eating style don't eat a load of crap...I don't know if I'm up for it. Without making myself crazy over counting carbs, I think it is safe to say that I should generally make carby food choices and that I should be sure to eat before and after exercise.

Speaking of recovery, for a long time I thought the chocolate milk after runs thing was a load of crap, but if I drink it on my way home from long runs or other hard workouts, my recovery is dramatically different from if I do not drink it. I'm solidly on Team Chocolate Milk now.

Re: The 4000 calorie carbo load, that is pretty much what I have heard as well. But, it seems a little bogus to me because if I am supposed to be able to store 5g of glycogen/kg of body weight, then I can probably store about 272g of glycogen (5g*54.5kg = 272g glycogen), so about 1000 calories. Granted not everything I eat is being stored as glycogen, but I can't imagine needing to eat 4000 calories to achieve that; I probably have a really lame and simplified understanding of how my body works though, so who knows?

See, since I never counted carbs, I am pretty clueless as to what is a lot of carbs or how many carbs are typical.

But if those numbers are high, then I guess the point is when you are marathon training, you need to have a high-carb diet if you want to feel good for the long runs (and races).  Obviously everything depends on your training...some people run 40 mpw when training and others run 100 mpw.  I guess though that if you are feeling like you are hitting a wall, increasing your carbs (and perhaps that means calories) is probably what you need to do.

Like I said, I do eat a lot of carbs.  I dont need math to know I eat more carbs than the normal person (since the trend is to not eat carbs).  I ran for 1:45 last weekend and never thought/considered fueling. I probably could have ran another 30 minutes, I was feeling pretty good.  But last month, when I my stomach bug, it took me about a week to have a good workout.  Even though I was properly eating like my old self, it took awhile to "catch up" from being sick.  So, while marathon training, I think the key is to never need to catch up -- always have the tank full.  And, you will be able to run harder/faster/longer this way.

I guess I would take your current carbs now and just slowly increase them until you feel like you can run 2 hours without fuel.