I HATE being in a union

[Jalapeñomel]

Oh no! DH took a job where he will be in the union, and we have no experience with it. But the health benefits look awesome.

[stephlove]

Jun 24, 2013 11:51:43 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Oh no! DH took a job where he will be in the union, and we have no experience with it. But the health benefits look awesome.

Don't be scared. Not all union experiences are bad. 

[macmars45]

Jun 24, 2013 11:51:43 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Oh no! DH took a job where he will be in the union, and we have no experience with it. But the health benefits look awesome.

My health benefits are awesome and I only work part time. (I am part of a union in case that wasn't clear.)

What the OP said can be true as well.

[bcv513]

My office isn't a union, and we still have lazy employees. I think people will either work hard or won't.

[kaybee85]

To piggyback on bcv513 I've seen the same thing both in and out of unions. Oh, and not only will there always be lazy people, there will always be people who bitch about change.

[lola]

Oh for crying out loud.

WORK breeds lazy, entitled employees. ALL WORK. This is not a union problem.

[gozf]

So leave your union.

[kaybee85]

If an employer is willing to put in the effort, a bad employee will be fired. I'm tired of the union being blamed for that. I know a few teachers who really shouldn't have a job, but they still have one, despite NOT having tenure/protection.

[jigsy]

What I've seen if DH union stuff is that often times, you hear about how the union saved some POS employees job...but that one story has 10 where the union did good by saving a good employees job, or standing behind employees who were being bullied by management.
If you have good, passionate leadership, onions can be great.

And I don't think it's a coincidence that the middle class and wages have shrunk as union membership has shrunk

[Jalapeñomel]

Jun 24, 2013 11:54:12 GMT -5 stephlove said:

Jun 24, 2013 11:51:43 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Oh no! DH took a job where he will be in the union, and we have no experience with it. But the health benefits look awesome.

Don't be scared. Not all union experiences are bad. 

LOL, I was just kidding, but I do hate lazy employees. 

[Deleted]

I am with the original poster. Unions protect but at times OVERLY so! I am talking about ADULT employees who you have to give numerious warnings to before you can even attempt to get rid of them.
Um...they are ADULTS, they know the rules, they should follow them. They are not 5 year olds who need to be reminded of rules.

I hate unions!!!!

[nsl]

I liked being in a union a lot more before I saw how one of our unions (thankfully not the one I belong to--I think there are four or five teacher's unions our faculty can join) thwarted our district's efforts to fire a teacher who was both lazy and had MULTIPLE arrests for domestic violence. I'm grateful for the support they provide in ensuring that our salaries and benefits stay competitive, and I'm sure if I was ever wrongfully accused of something work related I would be grateful for the legal assistance they'd provide, but they do make it very difficult to get rid of people who have no business in the classroom.

[stephlove]

Jun 24, 2013 12:16:23 GMT -5 @susan3589 said:

I am with the original poster. Unions protect but at times OVERLY so! I am talking about ADULT employees who you have to give numerious warnings to before you can even attempt to get rid of them.
Um...they are ADULTS, they know the rules, they should follow them. They are not 5 year olds who need to be reminded of rules.

I hate unions!!!!

This can happen with a union or without. I hear every day from H about his coworker that will sit and chat on her phone while everyone else is working their ass off. She'll disappear for 30 minutes at a time. She puts in no effort. AND SHE WAS JUST PROMOTED. He's not even in a union.

Yet, I am in a union, and everyone around me works their asses off on a daily basis. My union is currently fighting because our contract is up at the end of this month, and our employer wants to DOUBLE our cost for insurance and take away some of our other benefits. Without my union, I'd have to sit back and watch my paycheck shrink drastically even though I am performing and getting my job done. 

[papie]

Jun 24, 2013 12:05:47 GMT -5 gozf said:

So leave your union.

are you allowed? I think it is mandatory here to be part of the union if there is one.

That being said, I love my union. In such a big organization as a university, we would be powerless without it. It really helps with negotiating our work load, conditions, new hires, etc.

[kaybee85]

Jun 24, 2013 12:16:23 GMT -5 @susan3589 said:

I am with the original poster. Unions protect but at times OVERLY so! I am talking about ADULT employees who you have to give numerious warnings to before you can even attempt to get rid of them.
Um...they are ADULTS, they know the rules, they should follow them. They are not 5 year olds who need to be reminded of rules.

I hate unions!!!!

There usually has to be documentation of warnings and discussions either way, right? Posters here get the question asked immediately "Was there anything in writing?" regarding issues an employer may have had with them. If there were never warnings, the follow up advice is to fight it. 

Generally, this is where the problem is management, because they don't want to go through the trouble of following through with documentation.

[kaybee85]

Jun 24, 2013 12:24:19 GMT -5 papie said:

Jun 24, 2013 12:05:47 GMT -5 gozf said:

So leave your union.

are you allowed? I think it is mandatory here to be part of the union if there is one.

That being said, I love my union. In such a big organization as a university, we would be powerless without it. It really helps with negotiating our work load, conditions, new hires, etc.

It depends. In Florida, for example, we have 'Right to Work' laws, which means you have the right to work without belonging to a union.

[stephlove]

Jun 24, 2013 12:24:19 GMT -5 papie said:

Jun 24, 2013 12:05:47 GMT -5 gozf said:

So leave your union.

are you allowed? I think it is mandatory here to be part of the union if there is one.

That being said, I love my union. In such a big organization as a university, we would be powerless without it. It really helps with negotiating our work load, conditions, new hires, etc.

Many US states are 'right to work' states. You can stop paying dues, and leave the union, if you choose. 

[sydney02]

I'll take the bullshit with a union over bullshit without a union any day of the week. Union workers on average are paid more money for the same job as non union, have far better health benefits, holidays and overall total compensation.
Unions are pretty scarce in the south, so I now get to deal with lazy, entitled people for much less pay and benefits. Thanks Obama!

[sparkythelawyer]

Unions are a mixed bag. I have seen situations where there is a great relationship between the union and management, everyone co-exists peacably, etc. And I've seen unions who insist on such an acrimonious relationship with the employer it is impossible to work with them.

I've seen unions take a realistic approach to dealing with employee situations, taking into account the employer's issue and the employee's needs. Ive' also seen unions fight for the laziest, most incompetent and drugged out employee.

In short, it all depends on the union.

[flex]

I love my union and I work for the union: I'm a union rep.

It's been my experience that negative people are ALWAYS going to find a reason to bitch. And like pp's said, you're going to have self entitled people no matter where you go--union or not.

[flex]

Jun 24, 2013 12:56:32 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Unions are a mixed bag. I have seen situations where there is a great relationship between the union and management, everyone co-exists peacably, etc. And I've seen unions who insist on such an acrimonious relationship with the employer it is impossible to work with them.

I've seen unions take a realistic approach to dealing with employee situations, taking into account the employer's issue and the employee's needs. Ive' also seen unions fight for the laziest, most incompetent and drugged out employee.

In short, it all depends on the union.

Ditto!  It depends on the leadership of the particular local.  To be all inclusive about negativity with unions is the same as saying that all human beings are total assholes.  

[flex]

Jun 24, 2013 12:05:15 GMT -5 @rumpshaker said:

True, but unions make it exceedingly difficult to get rid of lazy, entitled employees.

Not true.  If Management is on top of things, they have the right to discipline.  But they have to apply "progressive discipline": verbal warning first, then a written warning, followed by suspension and/or termination.  Mangement TOTALLY has rights to do that--they just have to apply proper protocol laid out in the collective bargaining agreement.

Typically Management doesn't want to do that and tolerate poor performance until one day they snap and fire someone without apply progressive discipline, which is when the union steps in.

[sparkythelawyer]

Jun 24, 2013 13:22:39 GMT -5 flex said:

Jun 24, 2013 12:05:15 GMT -5 @rumpshaker said:

True, but unions make it exceedingly difficult to get rid of lazy, entitled employees.

Not true.  If Management is on top of things, they have the right to discipline.  But they have to apply "progressive discipline": verbal warning first, then a written warning, followed by suspension and/or termination.  Mangement TOTALLY has rights to do that--they just have to apply proper protocol laid out in the collective bargaining agreement.

Typically Management doesn't want to do that and tolerate poor performance until one day they snap and fire someone without apply progressive discipline, which is when the union steps in.

Meh, I won't go this far.

The current system allows the employee a wide degree of latitude all the while holding the employer to a perfect standard.  Many times, it is not that the employer has not provided progressive discipline, but they have a) not provided enough or b) the employee in question sucks in a wide variety of ways, but the reason for termination does not precisely match the precise cause for all of the discipline given.  

You can get away with a lot as a union employee, so long as you are not consistently a problem in only one area of your workplace performance. 

[flex]

Jun 24, 2013 13:49:55 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Jun 24, 2013 13:22:39 GMT -5 flex said:

Not true.  If Management is on top of things, they have the right to discipline.  But they have to apply "progressive discipline": verbal warning first, then a written warning, followed by suspension and/or termination.  Mangement TOTALLY has rights to do that--they just have to apply proper protocol laid out in the collective bargaining agreement.

Typically Management doesn't want to do that and tolerate poor performance until one day they snap and fire someone without apply progressive discipline, which is when the union steps in.

Meh, I won't go this far.

The current system allows the employee a wide degree of latitude all the while holding the employer to a perfect standard.  Many times, it is not that the employer has not provided progressive discipline, but they have a) not provided enough or b) the employee in question sucks in a wide variety of ways, but the reason for termination does not precisely match the precise cause for all of the discipline given.  

You can get away with a lot as a union employee, so long as you are not consistently a problem in only one area of your workplace performance. 

I'm basing my post on what I've seen with the Employers I've dealt with for eight years.  I don't agree that you can get away with a lot as a union employee.  Employers can make it exceedingly difficult with even good employees that they simply don't like.  I don't think of it as employees "getting away with it"--I see it as employees are a bit more protected than an at-will employee is.  Just sayin'.  : )

[sparkythelawyer]

Jun 24, 2013 13:54:23 GMT -5 flex said:

Jun 24, 2013 13:49:55 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Meh, I won't go this far.

The current system allows the employee a wide degree of latitude all the while holding the employer to a perfect standard.  Many times, it is not that the employer has not provided progressive discipline, but they have a) not provided enough or b) the employee in question sucks in a wide variety of ways, but the reason for termination does not precisely match the precise cause for all of the discipline given.  

You can get away with a lot as a union employee, so long as you are not consistently a problem in only one area of your workplace performance. 

I'm basing my post on what I've seen with the Employers I've dealt with for eight years.  I don't agree that you can get away with a lot as a union employee.  Employers can make it exceedingly difficult with even good employees that they simply don't like.  I don't think of it as employees "getting away with it"--I see it as employees are a bit more protected than an at-will employee is.  Just sayin'.  : )

Hey Flex!

Of course you are.  Just as I am basing my post on what I see professionally.  Our jobs have us on different sides of this theoretical table :-)

FTR? I really do not have a problem with unions per se.  And I do think that Unions exist to fight for all of their employees, both good and bad.  But that means, as an employer, you end up keeping bad employees longer than you want to sometimes, simply because your paper trail is not perfect.  *Shrug*

And I don't agree with mandatory membership, but that's a fight for another day :-)

[flex]

Jun 24, 2013 13:56:59 GMT -5 @rumpshaker said:

For the person that asked...no, I can't leave my union. Although my state is a Right to Work state, my union just negotiated a 10 year contract that supercedes the new law.

Where do you live?  

[flex]

Jun 24, 2013 13:59:57 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Jun 24, 2013 13:54:23 GMT -5 flex said:

I'm basing my post on what I've seen with the Employers I've dealt with for eight years.  I don't agree that you can get away with a lot as a union employee.  Employers can make it exceedingly difficult with even good employees that they simply don't like.  I don't think of it as employees "getting away with it"--I see it as employees are a bit more protected than an at-will employee is.  Just sayin'.  : )

Hey Flex!

Of course you are.  Just as I am basing my post on what I see professionally.  Our jobs have us on different sides of this theoretical table :-)

FTR? I really do not have a problem with unions per se.  And I do think that Unions exist to fight for all of their employees, both good and bad.  But that means, as an employer, you end up keeping bad employees longer than you want to sometimes, simply because your paper trail is not perfect.  *Shrug*

And I don't agree with mandatory membership, but that's a fight for another day :-)

Actually it's not mandatory to be a member.  Labor law says you do not have to become a member.  But if you're in a non-Right to Work (for Less) state, you still have to pay the dues and fees as a condition of employment with an employer.

If you choose not become a member or wish to withdraw membership you already have, you can become a "fee payer".  Plus you can't vote in union elections, participate in the bargaining process and you don't get any of the additional perks that go with union members.  It's a personal choice not to be a member, but most people don't realize that they can opt out.

[taffy]

Pretty much what Flex said (my quote function is not functioning).  Texas is a right to work state but I cannot opt out of the union.  I also still have to pay dues.  What I can do is defer those dues to a charity instead of the union but then I would not get to vote nor would I get  other perks.  I believe I would still be covered by the union in that they would have to assist me if I were to need a union rep but I'm not sure. 

We just merged with another airline and our union changed.  Many of our flight attendants thought they would just not pay their dues in protest.  They just received certified letters that they would be terminated if their dues were not paid by x number of days. I go back and forth as to whether I want union representation.  I believe they were necessary at one point but I have a hard time seeing what they are doing for me now.  Our company breaks the contract on a daily basis and tells us to grieve it.  Our unions response usually gets us about 5 hours of pay....but doesn't stop the company from breaking the rules.  

 

[sporklemotion]

Jun 24, 2013 12:10:46 GMT -5 kaybee85 said:

If an employer is willing to put in the effort, a bad employee will be fired. I'm tired of the union being blamed for that. I know a few teachers who really shouldn't have a job, but they still have one, despite NOT having tenure/protection.

I agree 100%, at least when it comes to teachers' unions (i can't speak for other unions(.  There are mechanisms in place to fire bad employees.  Unions may seem to make things harder because they ensure due process, but this is good protection for all employees.

[Chelle]

My union does a lot of good for me. It's the only reason I get paid even close to competitive wages. That being said, it also protects the bullies and horrible workers - we had a girl who was terrible to residents, rude to coworkers, and NOT DONE HER PROBATION and after she got fired (rightfully so in the eyes of every person at work) the union got her her job back. So very frustrating.