WCM, pediasure, and yogurt aren't going well

[lauranicole91]

This is so frustrating! Pedi wants her to have at least two 3-4oz sippy cups of WCM or pediasure a day.

She would take one sip and then push the cup away. She does that for both WCM and pediasure.

Today she keeps screaming and pushing the cups away. She now doesn't even trust what's in the cup. We went to the park and it is super hot and humid here today. She was playing and sweating so got out her water and she refused it over and over and started crying. I literally had to pour it on her face to prove it was water before she forcefully took a couple sips.

Today at lunch I figured I'd feed her something that required a good swig of fluids to wash it down. She still refused both milks. So instead she ate her whole lunch sans drink and then screamed to get out of her high chair. Where she then climbed on me on the couch to nurse.

When I try to give her yogurt she only accepts two baby spoonfuls before she shakes her head crying.

I know this is only day 3 but I feel like its getting worse not better.

DH even said she was reluctant to take her breast milk sippy last night when I was at work.

Fwiw we've tried all different kinds of sippy cups, all of which she used to love before this while ordeal.

I know deep down she is just small and that I'm sure she doesn't have any sort of GI issues. But I can't help but feel self-conscious(for lack of a better word) about how tiny she is now. I see babies all day long at work. I see 4-6 month olds bigger than her. When I see another 15 month old I am blown away by their size.

I am not starving my child! She's just active. So why am I so upset with myself?

[Deleted]

What about a real cup? Like a dixie cup. That probably wont help. But honestly, *and this is probably flameful*, but I'd make chocolate milk out of the WCM and see if she would drink it. If she would, then maybe she will like it and be more willing to try different 'milks'.?? I just would be worried you'd be making a bad habit... but still, chocolate milk is STILL WCM.. so she'd at least be getting some still

[skiesthelimit]

I think what you are feeling is completely normal!!

My aunt and uncle are going through the same thing with their son. My aunt is tiny, like she was so excited that she hit 100lbs 9 months pregnant. She is short and thin, very thin, she eats a ton, but that is just the way she is. My little cousin is the same way. They were really stressed about it too because everyone made comments on how "small he was for a boy". He was totally off the charts. Doctor told them he was just going to be tiny like his mom and there was nothing they could do about it.

I know when my supply was low and X wasn't gaining I blamed myself, "Why can't I make enough milk for my baby?" It's hard being a mom. But please know you are doing great!! You are a great mom and are doing everything you can. She is just going to be petite like her mommy.

As for the WCM and yogurt, just keep trying. X refused sippies/bottles of BM for months at DC when he first started, now he can't get enough of it. Keep trying everyday and she may end up loving it.

Hugs Momma xox

[lauranicole91]

The yogurt we chose is already mixed with fruit and cereal. The fact that she isn't even wanting to drink anything out of her sippy makes me wonder if mixing will even help. Same with trying smoothies. It's like she's being forced to drink poison so now she assumes everything is poison! If it continues for several more days I may consider a bottle. Just depends on how desperate I get.

[ruby412]

Violet wouldn't accept WCM at first either. We had to very slowly mix it with formula (you could do BM) and also let it come down to room temp. After a few weeks of that, she would drink regular WCM and now she'll even drink it cold.

As for the yogurt, V will only eat hers from a pouch - we have these and they are great:

www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=little%20green%20pouch&sprefix=little+green+p%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Alittle%20green%20pouch&ajr=2

I'm sure things will improve. Change is hard, but there is no emergency here, right? So, just let her take her time and adjust to her new milks while still nursing.

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2013 14:00:18 GMT -5 lauranicole91 said:

The yogurt we chose is already mixed with fruit and cereal. The fact that she isn't even wanting to drink anything out of her sippy makes me wonder if mixing will even help. Same with trying smoothies. It's like she's being forced to drink poison so now she assumes everything is poison! If it continues for several more days I may consider a bottle. Just depends on how desperate I get.

We had that issue (not trusting whats in the sippy) because I was trying to give him prune juice after his surgery so he could poop. He of course hated it, and freaked out. He wouldnt even drink water after, he didnt trust me. It took like 2 days until he would drink anything (more than a few sips). So he woke up one morning and I did what I usually do - gave him his milk. He kind of forgot about the whole thing and willingly took it and drank it. Maybe you could stop pushing it for a bit - wait until she trusts the sippy again, and then kind of surprise her (with milk mixed with something/ smoothie/ choco milk, anything), and she'll realize it DOES taste good. Since now she wont even try it??? idk, just a thought! :-(

[lauranicole91]

Jun 27, 2013 13:58:15 GMT -5 skiesthelimit said:

I think what you are feeling is completely normal!!

My aunt and uncle are going through the same thing with their son. My aunt is tiny, like she was so excited that she hit 100lbs 9 months pregnant. She is short and thin, very thin, she eats a ton, but that is just the way she is. My little cousin is the same way. They were really stressed about it too because everyone made comments on how "small he was for a boy". He was totally off the charts. Doctor told them he was just going to be tiny like his mom and there was nothing they could do about it.

I know when my supply was low and X wasn't gaining I blamed myself, "Why can't I make enough milk for my baby?" It's hard being a mom. But please know you are doing great!! You are a great mom and are doing everything you can. She is just going to be petite like her mommy.

As for the WCM and yogurt, just keep trying. X refused sippies/bottles of BM for months at DC when he first started, now he can't get enough of it. Keep trying everyday and she may end up loving it.

Hugs Momma xox

Thanks. I guess I also feel like I am/was being so selfish for holding out on WCM. Everyone here seemed to be counting down till they could introduce it and drop nursing sessions and/or formula. But here I was refusing to disturb our nursing relationship, assuming she was being adequately nourished from me and her table food. But I guess not.

I know I shouldn't compare to other moms but my IRL friend has a 20 month old and at 1 month old. She nursed her toddler all through pregnancy and still now, along with her newb. Her 20 month old still hasn't had WCM. What am I doing wrong that that isn't an option for us?

I'm just too afraid that if she does take to these milk sippy cups she will begin to refuse me. Hello, my name is Laura and I'm addicted to breast feeding my child.

[lauranicole91]

Jun 27, 2013 14:13:42 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I think if she is drinking BM out of a sippy and still nursing that she'll do the same with WCM out of a sippy. I could be talking out of my ass, but if she were going to drop nursing b/c of the sippy, I think it would be due to relative ease of use rather than what's she's getting from the sippy vs. the boob. I mean, she drinks water and BM, right? So why not WCM and BM? They don't really taste alike at all, so she probably doesn't even know that they are similar.

The issue with these added milk sippies is that they are supposed to be in addition to what we already do. So even though she nurses all throughout the day and has water all throughout the day, she ALSO needs to take in two sippies of milk/pediasure. She doesn't normally take breast milk sippies when I am home. I only pump enough to keep a couple in the fridge for when I'm at work. So getting something other than water in a sippy from me is totally throwing her for a loop. I feel like I am forcing her on a cup as an alternative of me.

[shevacc]

To me, I think the trust issue is sooooo important. At least according to Ellyn Satter (http://www.amazon.com/Child-Mine-Feeding-Revised-Updated/dp/0923521518), it's much more likely that meddling with a child's feeding will backfire and cause the opposite issues you intend. Imagine if you went to a restaurant and you couldn't leave until eating the entire huge portion they served you? I know I'd be miserable and have a huge stomach ache. According to her research, forcing a child to eat more makes them associate mealtime with a tummy ache and fight even normal amounts of food, often causing them to lose weight/gain even slower.

If you want to offer WCM/pediasure, I'd get some different looking cups. That way she can trust that you'll have water in her normal sippies and will know what she's getting. Also, breastmilk has more fat than WCM so if she's willing to nurse, she's getting a MORE fattening food than cow's milk. Don't feel guilty for nursing her!

[joyhart02]

There is a lot of good advice here. I would try not to force it as much right now until she gets comfortable with the dippy again. Maybe get a new cup that looks different and I also suggest putting a small amount of chocolate or strawberry in it if it is the taste that is bothering her. Then gradually reduce the amount of sugary stuff. Or mix bm with the wcm and see if that helps her with a familiar taste.

It can be really hard and frustrating with the lack of understanding that they need to drink. Don't beat yourself up.

Can you soak some Cheerios or cereal in milk and then offer it to her?

Continue to offer breast feeding her and just have her milk cup available at all times.

Also don't beat yourself up with not producing enough. Your body is just changing and adapting to her needs. It might be tired and your boobies might be tired.

I know that my supply has drastically reduced. I know I even produced less all around with Calista than Lydia.

[ruby412]

What about, instead of forcing the drinking issue, just incorporating more fatty foods into her diet? Does she eat avocado and cheese regularly? V had weight gain issues for a while, so I understand the stress. But incorporating those foods really helped! Also, pb is a good one if you guys are doing that yet.

[devonpow]

Henry was super skinny (still is), very picky, and hated milk. Until he was about 2 we mixed in chocolate Carnation Instant Breakfast in his milk so he would drink it. It worked really well! After he hit 2 we didn't care about the extra calories as much and weaned him off the chocolate. He still isn't a big milk drinker, but will drink it.

[rubber pants]

OMG your doctor is being totally unreasonable! Some children dont accept WCM instantly. It took Marisa 4 months for her to willingly take more than 2 sips of WCM. She hated it and would vilontly shake her head "no" at the mere sight of milk.

Keep at it, but dont force it. Have you tried avacado? Its healthy with a ton of calories!

[silverjm]

The real concern is more calories, so I would start paying more attention to the food calories she's eating and try to sub in higher calorie foods whenever you can. If you can up her overall calorie intake then you don't need to stress as much if it takes awhile to introduce the WCM.

[mrsjaymay]

You've gotten a lot of great advice here. I just wanted to offer hugs to you. You are a GREAT mama, I promise! I hope that Pey gives in soon!

[laurack]

This is nuts! she is just a little thing, anyone can see she's not skin and bone and is just small! I believe your doctor is being unreasonable.

I agree with fatty whole foods. Matilda drinks no milk, she appears to hate cows milk and flings it at me and also became suspicious of her water for a while when I was trying to get her to drink the milk. Now I've just decided I'm fine with it.

She loves avocado and another thing I do is I give her a spoonful of baby DHA (fish oil - nordic naturals) most days. It has a fruit flavor and she loves it. High in fat. She also loves avocados and cheese, and yogurt as well.

I don't think force feeding is a great idea as she obviously has a good idea of her own appetite. Thats what they say, kids know how much they need themselves. Barring any medical issue, she is just taking in what SHE wants and needs. I think she's just fine.

And there's no reason you need to think your milk is suddenly inadequate! You aren't doing anything wrong.

[kdrake8]

Jun 27, 2013 13:57:00 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

Oh! Or gradually mixed the WCM with breastmilk in a sippy until you got to say, 1/2 and 1/2 and then gave her that? Sorry, this sounds frustrating.

this is what we did (except in a bottle). M wouldn't touch WCM at first.

[skiesthelimit]

Jun 27, 2013 14:10:49 GMT -5 lauranicole91 said:

Jun 27, 2013 13:58:15 GMT -5 skiesthelimit said:

I think what you are feeling is completely normal!!

My aunt and uncle are going through the same thing with their son. My aunt is tiny, like she was so excited that she hit 100lbs 9 months pregnant. She is short and thin, very thin, she eats a ton, but that is just the way she is. My little cousin is the same way. They were really stressed about it too because everyone made comments on how "small he was for a boy". He was totally off the charts. Doctor told them he was just going to be tiny like his mom and there was nothing they could do about it.

I know when my supply was low and X wasn't gaining I blamed myself, "Why can't I make enough milk for my baby?" It's hard being a mom. But please know you are doing great!! You are a great mom and are doing everything you can. She is just going to be petite like her mommy.

As for the WCM and yogurt, just keep trying. X refused sippies/bottles of BM for months at DC when he first started, now he can't get enough of it. Keep trying everyday and she may end up loving it.

Hugs Momma xox

Thanks. I guess I also feel like I am/was being so selfish for holding out on WCM. Everyone here seemed to be counting down till they could introduce it and drop nursing sessions and/or formula. But here I was refusing to disturb our nursing relationship, assuming she was being adequately nourished from me and her table food. But I guess not.

I know I shouldn't compare to other moms but my IRL friend has a 20 month old and at 1 month old. She nursed her toddler all through pregnancy and still now, along with her newb. Her 20 month old still hasn't had WCM. What am I doing wrong that that isn't an option for us?

I'm just too afraid that if she does take to these milk sippy cups she will begin to refuse me. Hello, my name is Laura and I'm addicted to breast feeding my child.

You're talking to the girl who still pumps twice a day at work so X can get BM at DC......  He hasn't had any WCM (he's MSPI) or alternative either, all he gets is water and juice once in a while.  I totally get it.  I'm addicted to BFing my child too!

[carawestt]

I wouldn't force the WCM or yogurt on her. High caloric foods seem like the best bet. Don't worry, you're doing a great job!

[lauranicole91]

Jun 27, 2013 15:24:34 GMT -5 skiesthelimit said:

Jun 27, 2013 14:10:49 GMT -5 lauranicole91 said:

Thanks. I guess I also feel like I am/was being so selfish for holding out on WCM. Everyone here seemed to be counting down till they could introduce it and drop nursing sessions and/or formula. But here I was refusing to disturb our nursing relationship, assuming she was being adequately nourished from me and her table food. But I guess not.

I know I shouldn't compare to other moms but my IRL friend has a 20 month old and at 1 month old. She nursed her toddler all through pregnancy and still now, along with her newb. Her 20 month old still hasn't had WCM. What am I doing wrong that that isn't an option for us?

I'm just too afraid that if she does take to these milk sippy cups she will begin to refuse me. Hello, my name is Laura and I'm addicted to breast feeding my child.

You're talking to the girl who still pumps twice a day at work so X can get BM at DC......  He hasn't had any WCM (he's MSPI) or alternative either, all he gets is water and juice once in a while.  I totally get it.  I'm addicted to BFing my child too!

Yay I'm not alone. As much as I hate pumping I still do it because I love that she continues to get BM while I am away. Haha.

The issue with the fatty food suggestion is that we have already been doing that for months already. Her low weight is not a new issue. We've had "weight gain issues" since her very first 2 day old appointment. She's always been a slow gainer and super tiny. Therefore we have always been feeding lots of high fat and high protein foods. Eggs, peanut butter, avocado, adding oil to her food, we've already been doing that for months.

I'm not trying to shoot down everyone's advice or anything, I do appreciate all the kind words.

Also I'd be afraid of what a second opinion would say. No one else "knows" her and the fact that she's always been tiny. So how would someone new help me?

[lauranicole91]

Jun 27, 2013 15:40:03 GMT -5 @pcloadletter said:

But I don't understand why her being tiny is such a bad thing? Is she underweight?

She's less than 17lbs at 15.5 months. Apparently it has become a cause for concern.

[lauranicole91]

Jun 27, 2013 15:52:32 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

What is involved in the gastro labs? Could you go ahead and request those now? If there are no issues, then there's no point in continuing to stress yourself and Pey out over this.

I'm not sure what all it entails. She just said "lab work". So I assume blood tests?

[thedahliharpa]

I would go back to just breastmilk for a week and then very very gradually try mixing in WCM. What is one more week of not having it going to do? She is a smart girl and the distrust and issues will only intensify if forced.
I'm not opposed to a Ovaltine type additive if needed but am not a big fan of the actions you are being asked to take (but I understand why you are trying to follow the advice).
You are doing a great job nursing her. WCM is not the holy grail of toddler nutrition. If she does have any sort of issue trust that the nursing has only made it better.

[hass2001]

I didn't have time to read all the responses but just wanted to mention chocolate milk or milk in a sippy with straw? Sam will only take milk from me out of her special straw sippy.

[skiesthelimit]

Jun 27, 2013 17:21:21 GMT -5 thedahliharpa said:

I would go back to just breastmilk for a week and then very very gradually try mixing in WCM. What is one more week of not having it going to do? She is a smart girl and the distrust and issues will only intensify if forced.
I'm not opposed to a Ovaltine type additive if needed but am not a big fan of the actions you are being asked to take (but I understand why you are trying to follow the advice).
You are doing a great job nursing her. WCM is not the holy grail of toddler nutrition. If she does have any sort of issue trust that the nursing has only made it better.

Well said!

[lauranicole91]

Jun 27, 2013 17:21:21 GMT -5 thedahliharpa said:

I would go back to just breastmilk for a week and then very very gradually try mixing in WCM. What is one more week of not having it going to do? She is a smart girl and the distrust and issues will only intensify if forced.
I'm not opposed to a Ovaltine type additive if needed but am not a big fan of the actions you are being asked to take (but I understand why you are trying to follow the advice).
You are doing a great job nursing her. WCM is not the holy grail of toddler nutrition. If she does have any sort of issue trust that the nursing has only made it better.

I was really hoping you'd find your way into this thread. .

According to DH (we talked about it after he came home from work today) she doesn't refuse it as much when he offers. I took a shower when he got home and she chugged quite a bit of the pediasure. He texted me a little bit ago and said she's drank a couple ouches of WCM as well. She doesn't get her breast milk sippy till before bed so I sure she will still happily take that as well.

I think she just does not like taking any form of milk from me unless it is from my boobs. She's been that way since we introduced bottles. I guess I shouldn't be surprised really.

[The Foozzler]

Jun 27, 2013 14:33:24 GMT -5 shevacc said:

To me, I think the trust issue is sooooo important. At least according to Ellyn Satter (http://www.amazon.com/Child-Mine-Feeding-Revised-Updated/dp/0923521518), it's much more likely that meddling with a child's feeding will backfire and cause the opposite issues you intend. Imagine if you went to a restaurant and you couldn't leave until eating the entire huge portion they served you? I know I'd be miserable and have a huge stomach ache. According to her research, forcing a child to eat more makes them associate mealtime with a tummy ache and fight even normal amounts of food, often causing them to lose weight/gain even slower.

If you want to offer WCM/pediasure, I'd get some different looking cups. That way she can trust that you'll have water in her normal sippies and will know what she's getting. Also, breastmilk has more fat than WCM so if she's willing to nurse, she's getting a MORE fattening food than cow's milk. Don't feel guilty for nursing her!

I was going to suggest the different cups. Milk was not going well for us at first. Now we have a specific straw cup that only contains milk. We never put it in the water cup. He was getting mad at first when he was surprised by the contents of the cup. Now he knows water is always in the sippy. Milk is always in a straw cup. I think it helped him to be able to know what to expect when he took a sip.

[skiesthelimit]

I found this chart on the kellymom site, looks like Human BM has more fat than whole cow's milk.
kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/milkcalories/

[meggabs]

I'm dreading our 15mo appointment. She'll be 15 months next week, but the appt isn't until the end of July. We think McKinley weighs about 20 pounds, not more than that. I'm worried the Dr will tell us (again) to see a nutritionist. It took us about 2 weeks for her to drop the bottle and take milk from the sippy, but she will only drink milk if we give it to her like a bottle (in the rocking chair laying down). She won't drink anything significant, milk or water, at meals. Her water intake adds up to about 5 ounces a day. DH thinks she needs the milk for calories. But I compared 4oz of milk, a cheese stick, and 1/2C of yogurt and they're all about 90 cal. We haven't done PB, she doesn't like eggs or avacado... I try to do a cheese stick, grilled cheese, and yogurt daily so she gets lots of fat. We have a designated water sippy and milk sippy and offer both at meals, though she drinks little of either. I know this is NO help, but I hope it makes you feel a little better. There's lots of good advice on here, and trust your gut!

[greenkitty98]

(((laura))) I have two different friends with two year olds, and they are pretty much the same size now as P was at a year. (So, just a little over 20 lbs at 2+ years.) They are totally normal and healthy, just tiny, so if there is nothing medically wrong with Peyton I don't think there is anything wrong with her being tiny.

Also, I agree with other pp's about not forcing food/drinks on her. It will cause way more problems with eating down the road.