Bikers Vent

[punkinbutter]

I live in a very bike friendly area. There is a gorgeous trail that runs parallel to the main road. There are stores and restaurants that cater to the bikers. In turn, there are some very serious bikers in our area.

I've been baffled by the fact that the bikers continue to bike on the actual roads that are parallel to the trail. I've been informed that they do this because the trail is too easy for their training. Fair enough, but they scare the heck out of me. Apparently there are a lot of them on Saturday mornings on a narrow, windy country road that is 45-55 mph. Suddenly finding a biker in my path is quite scary. It is also slightly annoying that there is no safe way to pass them. One woman really scared me by having one of those child tent trailers on the back of her bike. Am I way overly cautious or does it just seem like bad sense to have on a road?

[grace]

I think it depends on the road and the biker.

I live in a very bike-friendly area, too, and I bike a lot. I'm very careful about following the rules, choosing roads with shoulders, etc. Shady bikers give all bikers a bad name.

[foundmylazybum]

::shrugs::
I also lived in a very bike friendly community with a path really similar to the one you described. People also biked on the road. The path we had was also a pedestrian path. Honestly as a biker who was trying to get in serious training I don't think it was realistic to use that path--you could realistically injure a pedestrian. As a runner if I saw someone zooming along doing hard core training on their bike..I'd wonder why they weren't on the road, and if they hit me I'd think they were completely reckless.

I 100% believe that bikers need to watch out on the roads, know the rules etc..

But if you--as a driver of a car that could kills a human KNOW that bikers are out and about--I also think it's your responsibility to be more aware.

It would seriously suck to kill someone.

[Deleted]

I only have issues sharing the road with casual bikers who can't follow bike laws and put everyone in danger.

Everyone else is good.

[punkinbutter]

I try to be mindful of the bikers. But this is a twisty road with blind turns. I know to watch out on the weekends but in my head cars would need to go 25 mph to make it safe for bikers on this particular road (like I said, its 45-55 depending on the part).
It is just two car lanes wide (the lanes aren't marked). I feel like some people put their training before safety.

[SusanBAnthony]

So question. I often bike with my 2 kids in a Chariot trailer (with a safety flag). We live in a small town, and once you get out of the town proper, you are basically on county highways @ 55 mph. However, there is no way for me to get places other than on those roads, so I ride on them. Is this bad? As a driver it doesn't bother me but obviously I am biased.

[Deleted]

Jun 16, 2012 18:56:06 GMT -5 punkinbutter said:

I try to be mindful of the bikers. But this is a twisty road with blind turns. I know to watch out on the weekends but in my head cars would need to go 25 mph to make it safe for bikers on this particular road (like I said, its 45-55 depending on the part).
It is just two car lanes wide (the lanes aren't marked). I feel like some people put their training before safety.

Still doesn't bother me. I grew up in the country and on a big winding hill. Cyclists would go through all the time. They know the risks.

[punkinbutter]

I guess we do come here to get different opinions I assumed that bikers prefer to stick to slower roads or faster roads with higher visibility or roads that at least offer a bike lane or shoulder. (I know that biking on the shoulder is a no-no in some areas but it seems like it would be nice to have a buffer). The cyclists may know the risks but I have no desire to have a collision with one even if I'm not at fault.

[diceeyes]

If it is legal for a bicyclist to ride in the road and you hit them coming up from behind, how is it NOT your fault?

Jun 16, 2012 21:27:20 GMT -5 punkinbutter said:

I guess we do come here to get different opinions I assumed that bikers prefer to stick to slower roads or faster roads with higher visibility or roads that at least offer a bike lane or shoulder. (I know that biking on the shoulder is a no-no in some areas but it seems like it would be nice to have a buffer). The cyclists may know the risks but I have no desire to have a collision with one even if I'm not at fault.

[Deleted]

I see both sides on this - on one hand, if there's a minimum speed and the cyclists go below it, they are the ones breaking the law, OTOH, it's important to yield to the vulnerable, OTTH, bikers never yield to runners (I get why, but I do think it's hypocritical to insist cars accommodate them but refuse themselves to accommodate runners). But regardless of who is right, I sideye the hell out of people who would put a child in that situation. The driver may well be at fault if there were an accident but the kid would still be dead. And having grown up in an area with windy roads and cyclists who loved them, I know fatal accidents happen enough to make me certain I'd never take a child on a road like that.

[Deleted]

Jun 16, 2012 19:02:59 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

So question. I often bike with my 2 kids in a Chariot trailer (with a safety flag). We live in a small town, and once you get out of the town proper, you are basically on county highways @ 55 mph. However, there is no way for me to get places other than on those roads, so I ride on them. Is this bad? As a driver it doesn't bother me but obviously I am biased.

Wait- you bike with your kids on the highway? Isn't that just nuts? Why would you do that?

[joenali]

Jun 16, 2012 22:55:24 GMT -5 elle said:

Jun 16, 2012 19:02:59 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

So question. I often bike with my 2 kids in a Chariot trailer (with a safety flag). We live in a small town, and once you get out of the town proper, you are basically on county highways @ 55 mph. However, there is no way for me to get places other than on those roads, so I ride on them. Is this bad? As a driver it doesn't bother me but obviously I am biased.

Wait- you bike with your kids on the highway? Isn't that just nuts? Why would you do that?

A safety flag won't stop a car from potentially hitting your kid trailer. I really think those are meant for trails not busy highways.

[Deleted]

Does the trail have a speed limit? The trails around me have a 15mph limit because they're shared with pedestrians. So any cyclist who is training or just likes to go fast uses the roads.

[SusanBAnthony]

Jun 16, 2012 22:55:24 GMT -5 elle said:

Jun 16, 2012 19:02:59 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

So question. I often bike with my 2 kids in a Chariot trailer (with a safety flag). We live in a small town, and once you get out of the town proper, you are basically on county highways @ 55 mph. However, there is no way for me to get places other than on those roads, so I ride on them. Is this bad? As a driver it doesn't bother me but obviously I am biased.

Wait- you bike with your kids on the highway? Isn't that just nuts? Why would you do that?

Yes. I bike for transportation, not exercise. Well, exercise, too. But in the case of being on a county road with a 55 speed limit, it would be for tranortation. How else a, I supposed to get place, there are no other roads once yu get out of town.

[foundmylazybum]

Jun 16, 2012 21:27:20 GMT -5 punkinbutter said:

I guess we do come here to get different opinions I assumed that bikers prefer to stick to slower roads or faster roads with higher visibility or roads that at least offer a bike lane or shoulder. (I know that biking on the shoulder is a no-no in some areas but it seems like it would be nice to have a buffer). The cyclists may know the risks but I have no desire to have a collision with one even if I'm not at fault.

You keep mentioning this windy road. Please for a moment out on your thinking cap and just think about why cyclists would be drawn to this road.

What generally blows my mind about posts like this is that if you know cyclists are going to be on that road, one day a week... Just slow down a bit for safety. It's not that hrd is it?

[punkinbutter]

I do slow down when I'm expecting cyclists on the road. However, I am not slowing down to the 25 mph that I think would be a safe share the road speed because then I put myself in danger of being hit from behind. **Checked the local rules. Apparently full lane use is only allowed if you are at full operational speeds. What I was trying to say before though was that I don't know what the legality of it would be if there was a collision, but it would be traumatizing to be involved either way.

I don't think there is a limit on bike speeds since I do see some people training on it (I assume they are training based on their clothes).

[Deleted]

Susan- I don't understand why you are biking for transportation with your kids on a highway when you say earlier you also drive. Although, really, even if you do no have a car I wouldn't put my kids in a bike stroller on a highway. I honestly think hitchhiking would be safer.

[aurora]

OP - Based on your post, it sounds like the cyclists are behaving within the law and you just need to slow down and pass when it is safe to do so. I live in a mountainous area with lots of steep curving roads and I simply don't believe there is absolutely no safe place to pass a cyclist going 25 mph on a road with a 45-55 mph speed limit. Sure, you might have to wait until you get around a sharp corner, but they have just as much right to be on the road as you do.

If you have a bunch of cyclists riding constantly abreast and taking up the full lane all of the time, that is a different story.

Jun 16, 2012 22:53:08 GMT -5 elle said:

...OTTH, bikers never yield to runners (I get why, but I do think it's hypocritical to insist cars accommodate them but refuse themselves to accommodate runners)...

And this is an inflammatory statement that is simply not true. I see cyclists yielding to runners all the time and I do it myself. It's the law. Are there some rude cyclists who don't obey? Sure. But it's nowhere near a "never yield" situation.

[SusanBAnthony]

Jun 17, 2012 8:52:55 GMT -5 elle said:

Susan- I don't understand why you are biking for transportation with your kids on a highway when you say earlier you also drive. Although, really, even if you do no have a car I wouldn't put my kids in a bike stroller on a highway. I honestly think hitchhiking would be safer.

Because we try to only drive the car when we need it, to reduce our carbon footprint. If I can get places biking within a reasonable time, and the weather is reasonable, I try to bike. I stay over as far as I can (on the shoulder if it is paved) and like I said these aren't main highways, they are county rds. IDK, until all the responses in this thread I didn't think it was any more dangerous or annoying than a single person biking on a regular road.

I am a pretty chill parent, maybe I am way off base, but this does not seem to me to be negligent. Shrug.

[grace]

Jun 17, 2012 11:37:00 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Jun 17, 2012 8:52:55 GMT -5 elle said:

Susan- I don't understand why you are biking for transportation with your kids on a highway when you say earlier you also drive. Although, really, even if you do no have a car I wouldn't put my kids in a bike stroller on a highway. I honestly think hitchhiking would be safer.

Because we try to only drive the car when we need it, to reduce our carbon footprint. If I can get places biking within a reasonable time, and the weather is reasonable, I try to bike. I stay over as far as I can (on the shoulder if it is paved) and like I said these aren't main highways, they are county rds. IDK, until all the responses in this thread I didn't think it was any more dangerous or annoying than a single person biking on a regular road.

I am a pretty chill parent, maybe I am way off base, but this does not seem to me to be negligent. Shrug.

This seems reasonable. I think a parent assesses safety and makes a choice, I don't see anything wrong with it. And I definitely respect the choice to drive as little as possible.

[Deleted]

Jun 16, 2012 17:21:47 GMT -5 punkinbutter said:

I live in a very bike friendly area. There is a gorgeous trail that runs parallel to the main road. There are stores and restaurants that cater to the bikers. In turn, there are some very serious bikers in our area.

I've been baffled by the fact that the bikers continue to bike on the actual roads that are parallel to the trail. I've been informed that they do this because the trail is too easy for their training. Fair enough, but they scare the heck out of me. Apparently there are a lot of them on Saturday mornings on a narrow, windy country road that is 45-55 mph. Suddenly finding a biker in my path is quite scary. It is also slightly annoying that there is no safe way to pass them. One woman really scared me by having one of those child tent trailers on the back of her bike. Am I way overly cautious or does it just seem like bad sense to have on a road?

This definitely depends on a lot of factors from my point of view - is the trail paved and wide enough for several cyclists (to allow traffic both directions)? Do pedestrians use the path? What do you mean by 45-55mph - do you mean the speed limit is 45 and people go 55? Is there no shoulder at all with narrow lanes? If the trail isn't paved, I would never use it. If it is but has a lot of pedestrians, it would be a nightmare to go any decent speed (>15mph). In my experience, bike/pedestrian paths are not useful for anyone doing a training ride or going somewhere, since women with strollers and dogs, as well as small children on bikes, tend to block the path frequently. Also, you say that the road is narrow and windy, but it doesn't make sense that the speed limit around winding turns would be 45mph, it's usually not safe to corner at those speeds if there's low visibility. I think any collision where a car rear-ended a bike would be 100% the driver's fault, for going too fast. Then again, I tend to assume that most drivers are idiots and are going to do the worst possible thing, since that assumption has kept me from getting hit before (I know that there are plenty of good drivers out there, but a lot of them do stupid, dangerous things). I'd have to see the road to decide whether to ride on it or try to find an alternate route. If I had kids, I'd probably be slightly more cautious and might take the path if it could accommodate traffic going at least 12mph and just accept that it would take longer to get wherever we were going.

[gumi]

I need to know more about this "trail". Is it smooth like a road? Is it also for runners, dog walkers, skate boarders, etc?

I see annoyance from non-cyclists quite a bit but the fact is that a road bike is for the ROAD - not for a sidewalk or for a trail.

When you say "serious bikers" I assume these are people going pretty fast. I know cyclists who bike 30mph - I know packs that go as fast as 40mph. It's not safe for these people to share a trail with recreational cyclists, kids on rollerblades and old people walking dogs.

I drive a car.
I ride a bike.
I get to see this issue through both sides. And, unfortunately it IS an issue. There are too many car-related cycling accidents and they often end in DEATH.

I dont care I have to slow down when I drive my car. And I dont care if you have to slow when I ride my bike. People need to pay attention, end of story. Just always assume there is a cyclist on the road in front of you.

[emilyj]

I agree with FMLB. You are obviously aware that there are cyclists out on this road on a specific day. Why not just proceed with caution down that road?

The safe way to pass them is to wait until you get a clear stretch of road, and then go around them. There is not question about that. A bike is a legal vehicle and has as much right to the road as you do. You should treat it like a car.

In a perfect world I would love to do all my training on roads with high visibility or bike lanes. But it's not realistic. It doesn't mean I'm putting my training before my safety, and I actually resent that implication.

[kams]

Speaking of baffled: I'm not really sure what the purpose of your post is. I understand venting, but I'm sure you're aware that there are several cyclists on this board. By saying things like we put our training above our safety, & you could possibly hit one of us from behind and it might not be your fault, I feel like you're being intentionally inflammatory. If you're not happy to obey the laws as they demand you yield to cyclists, maybe you are the one who is being more dangerous in this situation.

In response to your question about the bike trailer: As a parent, in my city, I would personally stick to trails. However, without clearly seeing the routes that other parents take, I can't make a judgement.

[sadlebred]

Slow down, share the road, it's the law.

[mrsmag]

Jun 16, 2012 23:45:34 GMT -5 @ameliapond said:

Does the trail have a speed limit? The trails around me have a 15mph limit because they're shared with pedestrians. So any cyclist who is training or just likes to go fast uses the roads.

This. We have a similar situation with a multi-use path (15 mph speed limit) that runs parallel to the road. If you use the path, there are tons of pedestrians, people on skateboards, kids on bikes, etc. If you use the road, then people honk at you and point to the trail.

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2012 10:58:54 GMT -5 aurora said:

OP - Based on your post, it sounds like the cyclists are behaving within the law and you just need to slow down and pass when it is safe to do so. I live in a mountainous area with lots of steep curving roads and I simply don't believe there is absolutely no safe place to pass a cyclist going 25 mph on a road with a 45-55 mph speed limit. Sure, you might have to wait until you get around a sharp corner, but they have just as much right to be on the road as you do.

If you have a bunch of cyclists riding constantly abreast and taking up the full lane all of the time, that is a different story.

Jun 16, 2012 22:53:08 GMT -5 elle said:

...OTTH, bikers never yield to runners (I get why, but I do think it's hypocritical to insist cars accommodate them but refuse themselves to accommodate runners)...

And this is an inflammatory statement that is simply not true. I see cyclists yielding to runners all the time and I do it myself. It's the law. Are there some rude cyclists who don't obey? Sure. But it's nowhere near a "never yield" situation.

I run on a run path next to a bike path, but where there's a 4 way intersection. I can count on one hand the number of "cyclists" who have yielded to me on that intersection. In fact, I don't think it's happened even once. Leisure riders will yield, but the cyclists that use it while training never do. I get it's easier for me to slow down and let the cyclists keep their speed, but technically, it's pedestrian right of way and the pedestrian is more vulnerable. So I do find it ironic when cyclists want cars to slow down to accommodate them on the road because I know damn well the cyclists (at least where i live) don't extend the same courtesy to runners. I'm all for not killing people, I also think the cars need to slow down and I am really pro-mandatory bike lanes, but let's be real. Cyclists can be plenty selfish about sharing with pedestrians too.

And I say this after getting in a huge fight with DH after a ride yesterday when he finished minutes ahead of me because he kept blowing through the pedestrian crossings while I stopped.

[katiecj]

My only pet peeve about cyclist is that when we are both at a stop sign nearby, they always dart out ahead of me. Causing me to go 25 behind them in a 50 zone until it's safe to past. It seems to happen a lot.
Would it really kill them to wait for me to go through the stop sign first? (And I'm talking about times that I actually get to the stop sign first, not after them.)

Otherwise, I try to be patient and remember that they have as much right as I do to use the road.

[sadlebred]

Something tells me the person with the child trailer IS serious about not wanting to always put her kids in a car, showing them how you CAN use alternative transportation, and getting some exercise at the same time. It happens all the time in my city, especially in town. Kudos to mom!!

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2012 7:03:21 GMT -5 jellymankelly said:

Jun 16, 2012 18:55:09 GMT -5 aswartzw said:

I only have issues sharing the road with casual bikers who can't follow bike laws and put everyone in danger.

Everyone else is good.

I agree, and someone with a child trailer on the back of their bike probably isn't that serious OR training for anything.

Don't twist my words. I said casual bikers who don't follow bike laws. I didn't say ALL casual bikers. I fully support anyone who uses a bike cart to transport her kids as long as she is following bike laws. Following bike laws is not putting everyone in danger. A bike trailer is not putting everyone in danger either.