But the parents did make it during the conference time. Yes, it was poor planning to wait until the end, but it's not their fault there was a backlog. It's not like all three families planned to meet there.
We warned them all week. Neither parent in this particular family works.
I have a sign up sheet outside my door, but all the slots were filled. So when they showed up at 2:45, it was easy for them to see that I had no available times left.
Yeah, here's the deal. I've already taken personal time off work before I get there and see all your times for that day have been taken. That doesn't really help me at that point.
I agree your anger should be directed towards whomever came up with this horrible plan of a "first come, first serve" conference time.
And, I get that they don't work. However, the lack of respect for other people's time (no matter WHAT they do or don't do with that time) is a prevalent theme I'm getting from educators lately. It's no better to get there and see that you have to sign up to come back or sit around and wait until you can be seen.
We warned them all week. Neither parent in this particular family works.
I have a sign up sheet outside my door, but all the slots were filled. So when they showed up at 2:45, it was easy for them to see that I had no available times left.
Yeah, here's the deal. I've already taken personal time off work before I get there and see all your times for that day have been taken. That doesn't really help me at that point.
I agree your anger should be directed towards whomever came up with this horrible plan of a "first come, first serve" conference time.
And, I get that they don't work. However, the lack of respect for other people's time (no matter WHAT they do or don't do with that time) is a prevalent theme I'm getting from educators lately. It's no better to get there and see that you have to sign up to come back or sit around and wait until you can be seen.
Sure. I don't like the system either.
But upon seeing that there were no more available slots, they chose to stay here and pound on my door, AFTER I'd told them I wasn't available and would happily meet with them later. Son and Dad continued to be rude.
What they should have done, is looked at the schedule, gone home, and emailed me for a later meeting. I'd have happily responded (while internally grumbling that they should have come during conferences, but whatever) with two or three available times. Instead, they were rude.
Yeah, here's the deal. I've already taken personal time off work before I get there and see all your times for that day have been taken. That doesn't really help me at that point.
I agree your anger should be directed towards whomever came up with this horrible plan of a "first come, first serve" conference time.
And, I get that they don't work. However, the lack of respect for other people's time (no matter WHAT they do or don't do with that time) is a prevalent theme I'm getting from educators lately. It's no better to get there and see that you have to sign up to come back or sit around and wait until you can be seen.
THEY DON'T HAVE JOBS!!!!
can you stop pointing out facts, frkls? kthnx. (kiss)
Teachers are so disrespected, they work so much more than parents even understand and now this teacher has to make special consideration for these 3 families that couldn't even be considerate of this teachers time. Parents.
I don't think anyone's saying she should have extended the hours, just that it could have been handled better. Saying "conferences end at 3" implies that showing up at 2:45 for a 10 minute conference is okay. It's not her fault three families decided to show up for the last slot, but neither is it disrespecting the teacher to show up for the last slot.
It does sound like the parents' response could have been more understanding.
Sorry, I would be so pissed if I were one of those parents. Maybe they had a meeting or whatever on the ONE day you guys offered after-work sessions, and were like, "cool, they said I could go as late as 3pm, that's what I'll do" and then (in their minds) you shut the door in their face? Sorry, I know that you don't set the policy but it's absolutely reflecting on you poorly to those parents.
they don't have jobs!!
Dude. There could be any number of legit things that they have going on that prevented them from being able to make it on that one specific day. Doctor's appts, parent-teacher conference for one of their other kids (since they're usually held the same days district-wide), therapy appts for an autistic child, etc etc etc. You're missing the point that they were told the window was until 3pm and they showed up within that window.
Yeah, here's the deal. I've already taken personal time off work before I get there and see all your times for that day have been taken. That doesn't really help me at that point.
I agree your anger should be directed towards whomever came up with this horrible plan of a "first come, first serve" conference time.
And, I get that they don't work. However, the lack of respect for other people's time (no matter WHAT they do or don't do with that time) is a prevalent theme I'm getting from educators lately. It's no better to get there and see that you have to sign up to come back or sit around and wait until you can be seen.
Sure. I don't like the system either.
But upon seeing that there were no more available slots, they chose to stay here and pound on my door, AFTER I'd told them I wasn't available and would happily meet with them later. Son and Dad continued to be rude.
What they should have done, is looked at the schedule, gone home, and emailed me for a later meeting. I'd have happily responded (while internally grumbling that they should have come during conferences, but whatever) with two or three available times. Instead, they were rude.
Did you tell them, when you saw them show up at 2:45 "I'm sorry, I don't have any more time today. Can we reschedule" or did you wait for them to figure it out on their own?
Who cares if they don't have jobs? I'm a stay at home parent - that doesn't mean I want to sit around in a hallway waiting for someone. It doesn't meant that I don't schedule my day. I don't think OP should have missed her appointment or not pumped but this is not the parents' fault at all. They were told to come any time before 3 and they did. I guess it's fine if 6 families show up at once and 1 of them has to wait an hour? Because only the teacher's time is precious?
Dude. There could be any number of legit things that they have going on that prevented them from being able to make it on that one specific day. Doctor's appts, parent-teacher conference for one of their other kids (since they're usually held the same days district-wide), therapy appts for an autistic child, etc etc etc. You're missing the point that they were told the window was until 3pm and they showed up within that window.
they showed up during that window to see that the TIME SLOTS WERE FULL! she was busy with other families until 3 and then needed to pump and leave so she couldn't extend her hours. And this stupid policy isn't her idea.
So what? She is supposed to leak bodily fluids all over herself while she talks about Junior's math grades and miss her doctor's appointment?
Dude. There could be any number of legit things that they have going on that prevented them from being able to make it on that one specific day. Doctor's appts, parent-teacher conference for one of their other kids (since they're usually held the same days district-wide), therapy appts for an autistic child, etc etc etc. You're missing the point that they were told the window was until 3pm and they showed up within that window.
so, why does their legit thing trump sugarbear's legit thing? they were told for a week that it was a first-come-first-serve deal and that it ended at 3pm.
But upon seeing that there were no more available slots, they chose to stay here and pound on my door, AFTER I'd told them I wasn't available and would happily meet with them later. Son and Dad continued to be rude.
What they should have done, is looked at the schedule, gone home, and emailed me for a later meeting. I'd have happily responded (while internally grumbling that they should have come during conferences, but whatever) with two or three available times. Instead, they were rude.
Did you tell them, when you saw them show up at 2:45 "I'm sorry, I don't have any more time today. Can we reschedule" or did you wait for them to figure it out on their own?
This is buried somewhere in the first page: My exact wording was something like, "I'm so sorry. Conferences end at 3 and I've got to be somewhere at 3:45. We can reschedule later." Their son gave me a snotty response and so I closed the door.
Parents were told in at least three emails that they should not wait til the last minute.
I offered to reschedule (I realize that I should have written this in the OP when I wrote, "I told them I had to scoot.").
They were rude.
I closed my door.
Why is their time worth more than mine? If they complained to my principal about the set-up, fine. I wouldn't blame them. But they expected me to stay. Why are they special?
Post by vanillacourage on Oct 28, 2013 14:35:42 GMT -5
I am not saying she should have thrown open the door and welcomed them in. I'm saying it's a crappy system that unfortunately reflects poorly on her. Sorry OP, but it didn't help the situation to be sort of "sorry not sorry" and close the door in their face. I know they could not have known you were in there pumping (and that bit isn't really their business), but it being obvious that you were still inside, seemingly just hanging out, made a bad situation worse.
Out of curiosity, why is your principal so opposed to time slots? My son is just in K and we signed up for slots at back-to-school night the first week.
Did you tell them, when you saw them show up at 2:45 "I'm sorry, I don't have any more time today. Can we reschedule" or did you wait for them to figure it out on their own?
This is buried somewhere in the first page: My exact wording was something like, "I'm so sorry. Conferences end at 3 and I've got to be somewhere at 3:45. We can reschedule later." Their son gave me a snotty response and so I closed the door.
Who cares if they don't have jobs? I'm a stay at home parent - that doesn't mean I want to sit around in a hallway waiting for someone. It doesn't meant that I don't schedule my day. I don't think OP should have missed her appointment or not pumped but this is not the parents' fault at all. They were told to come any time before 3 and they did. I guess it's fine if 6 families show up at once and 1 of them has to wait an hour? Because only the teacher's time is precious?
Its the nature of a first come first serve system. Yes, it is fair that if 6 families show up around the same time that the last family has to wait. That's how it goes, welcome to life.
Who cares if they don't have jobs? I'm a stay at home parent - that doesn't mean I want to sit around in a hallway waiting for someone. It doesn't meant that I don't schedule my day. I don't think OP should have missed her appointment or not pumped but this is not the parents' fault at all. They were told to come any time before 3 and they did. I guess it's fine if 6 families show up at once and 1 of them has to wait an hour? Because only the teacher's time is precious?
Its the nature of a first come first serve system. Yes, it is fair that if 6 families show up around the same time that the last family has to wait. That's how it goes, welcome to life.
A poorly arranged life, yes. Normal people make appointments.
And I've totally missed the humor in this. How incredibly awkward it must have been to have to pump wondering if they were standing outside the door! I'm glad they weren't still pacing out there when you were finished. I wonder if the parents were thinking you had a secret passageway or just climbed out the window. LOL.
I am not saying she should have thrown open the door and welcomed them in. I'm saying it's a crappy system that unfortunately reflects poorly on her. Sorry OP, but it didn't help the situation to be sort of "sorry not sorry" and close the door in their face. I know they could not have known you were in there pumping (and that bit isn't really their business), but it being obvious that you were still inside, seemingly just hanging out, made a bad situation worse.
Out of curiosity, why is your principal so opposed to time slots? My son is just in K and we signed up for slots at back-to-school night the first week.
Good question. We change it every year. Some years, I have 80 students and 5 minutes to meet with each (WTF? That never works). Other years, parents have signed up for a 20 minute slot, which is almost too long for some kids.
I guess the short answer is, someone always complains about whatever system we have.
I'm a social worker so I always leave time before/after anything it planned to meet with clients. It's the nature of my work to meet they client's needs, not the other way around.
Yes, I wish I lived in a world where no one arrived late, or at the same time, or unannounced -but it's so MUCH MORE IMPORTANT to meet with parents who show up AT ALL, than to hold them to some schedule.
You had to pump and you had to go, that's fine. It's perfectly fine to set that boundary. But it just seems so tragic that you missed an opportunity to meet with parents who WANTED to talk with you. And now you seems annoyed that they demanded you time next week!
Your choice.
I on the other hand think it's important that they learn to respect my time as much as they respect their own. As a teacher I contractually worked 8:15-4:30. I was available to parents by appointment only 7:30-4:30. I had a mom twice try to schedule after my work hours. Sorry, I have to pick my kid up from daycare before it closes. I take time off from work for my appointments (doctors, kids' stuff etc), no reason you shouldn't have the same expectation.
OP's conference thing is stupid (lobby to get those scheduled in advance!!!). But there is no reason for her to stay past 3pm, especially if she's willing to reschedule next week.
Its a poorly set up system, that is all there is to it. I don't know why, but the "they don't have jobs!!!!!" comments are annoying to me. And trust me, I work at a job where I deal with the general public and frequently have people stand me up for scheduled appointments, so I understand the frustration.
Post by speckledfrog on Oct 28, 2013 14:50:53 GMT -5
I am so sick of people here getting all worked up because the OP wasn't their version of perfect and assuming OP was completely incapable of making the best decision for the circumstances for which she had all the pertinent info. Everyone's an expert in everything. I'm with frkls, I might need to take a break. It's asshole city around here recently.
Post by thebreakfastclub on Oct 28, 2013 14:55:11 GMT -5
I wonder if people would think differently if the parents in question showed up at 1pm, and there were 10 other parents waiting, and people waited for 2 hours and still couldn't get in.
Because I would have liked to take a 1/2 vacation day on Friday so I could show up for the conference after lunch.
I agree that having no time slots is an invitation to backlog and disaster. I would not be annoyed that they wished to reschedule.
I am not saying she should have thrown open the door and welcomed them in. I'm saying it's a crappy system that unfortunately reflects poorly on her. Sorry OP, but it didn't help the situation to be sort of "sorry not sorry" and close the door in their face. I know they could not have known you were in there pumping (and that bit isn't really their business), but it being obvious that you were still inside, seemingly just hanging out, made a bad situation worse.
Out of curiosity, why is your principal so opposed to time slots? My son is just in K and we signed up for slots at back-to-school night the first week.
Good question. We change it every year. Some years, I have 80 students and 5 minutes to meet with each (WTF? That never works). Other years, parents have signed up for a 20 minute slot, which is almost too long for some kids.
I guess the short answer is, someone always complains about whatever system we have.
This just sounds like a lose-lose situation all the way around.
The only thing I have to add is I hope you can convince your principal there are more time intervals between 5 & 20 minutes and those who don't need as much time will balance out those who need extra. How does he think a doctors office works? Dang man. So frustrating.
I am not saying she should have thrown open the door and welcomed them in. I'm saying it's a crappy system that unfortunately reflects poorly on her. Sorry OP, but it didn't help the situation to be sort of "sorry not sorry" and close the door in their face. I know they could not have known you were in there pumping (and that bit isn't really their business), but it being obvious that you were still inside, seemingly just hanging out, made a bad situation worse.
Out of curiosity, why is your principal so opposed to time slots? My son is just in K and we signed up for slots at back-to-school night the first week.
Good question. We change it every year. Some years, I have 80 students and 5 minutes to meet with each (WTF? That never works). Other years, parents have signed up for a 20 minute slot, which is almost too long for some kids.
I guess the short answer is, someone always complains about whatever system we have.
I had ~100 kids each year. We only saw homeroom parents for formal yearly conferences so no teacher had to meet with more than 20ish sets of parents. We were free to set our schedule but did have to offer a sign-up sheet (for example, if I can meet after school but not before, then I just didn't put early slots on my sign-up sheet). I don't see why this has to be hard for your principal to understand. It sounds like he's micromanaging it.
ETA: I understand your annoyance, though. Some parents were habitually disrespectful of my time and rude to boot. Most parents were great, though. I've had parents no-show/no-call on an after hours conference then demand that I schedule another after hours conference with them. Fuck that noise. If you stand me up when I'm here on my own time, you can come during my conference period.
Well I wouldn't be annoyed at having to meet with the parents at another time, because I've always had to find time to meet parents if they want to meet.
My oldest has time slots this year, but every time I have gone to conferences at my time (her school has conferences monthly, so I have gone twice now) I have had to wait. Usually 30-45 minutes because other parents came late, causing each subsequent appointment to be late.
Last year we had open classrooms like OP. It never failed to see parents coming at the last minute to talk to the teachers. We would be done talking to the teacher, walking around looking in the library/at the artwork, etc and see a bunch of parents waltzing in 5 minutes to the end of the scheduled conference time. Which would mean the teachers are late getting out if they accommodate the parents, and at DD's school they would stay.
There is no good answer to entitled, twatty parents. And in most cases the schools will not stand up and say no to them. They just let the teachers have to deal with it.
I understand and realize that you had an urgent need to pump. And there was no easy way to communicate that to the families.
But closing the door at 3 pm, on the dot, in the faces of 3 families (2 of which have issues), and sitting alone in your classroom for a half hour just reinforces the very worse parent-teacher interaction stereotype.
And you sound absolutely annoyed that they demanded a conference. Don't you WANT them to meet with you?
I also had a doctor appointment at 3:45. I really had no choice. What would you have done?
I would have said something to the effect of, "I'm sorry, but I need to leave. Please contact me tomorrow and we will set up a time to meet next week." instead of acting like I owed them nothing and "scooted" out the door.
ETA: I've gone back and read this again. I think I'm just gleaning something from your tone here, and may be I am wrong. It sounds like you are pissed you have to meet with these particular parents at all. It is like, "Well, they didn't show up at X time in this absolutely crappily set up system the school has set up to address this so GAH, I'm going to have to like, meet them at a different time. Don't you know these parents are problem parents with NO JOBS and snotty kids? Ew. AND, they complained to the principal! About this crappy system and my inability to make it magically fit their needs! So lame."
I may be reading far more in to your tone than I should, but you sound resentful that they dared to expect to meet with you at all even though they showed up within the allotted time but could not meet with you.