If I’ve learned anything from this site over the years, it’s that homeowners’ associations are evil and to be avoided. Sometimes you don’t have a choice, though: the home of your dreams or basic neighborhood amenities require it. And sometimes, as one Kentucky woman discovered, not joining the HOA means you can lose your house.
If that sounds farfetched, well, a quick look through the Consumerist archives shows us that it’s happened before. In one horrific case, a man set his house on fire after a court awarded ownership of it to his HOA over a dispute regarding…unpaid dues and fines he racked up during a dispute over a fence.
This happened in Lexington, Kentucky. According to TV station LEX 18, the 75-year-old bought the house back in 2007, but works as a horse trainer and isn’t home all that much. Apparently she didn’t have anyone grabbing her mail: the HOA claims that they’ve sent her dozens of letters and legal summonses since 2009.
The HOA dues in her neighborhood? $48 per year. She owes a total of $288. The homeowner says that she just tossed the letters she received, assuming that the HOA was some kind of social organization that collected money from residents to access the pool or something. “I didn’t know it was mandatory to join this…homeowners’,” she says with some distaste. “I told them, I’m not joining.”
The good news, if there is any in this situation, is that the company that now owns her house did not immediately throw her out in the street. Also, she did get some of the proceeds: about $80,000. She paid $125,000 cash up front for the house in 2007, and that’s about what the house should have sold for today.
HOAs do often foreclose on abandoned homes, but there’s a difference between “owner is frequently away on business and not good about reading her mail” and “owner has completely abandoned her house.”
In some parts of the country you can't really avoid them (especially in southern cities that have experienced booms-Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville, Dallas etc).
Also this woman was a moron. Everything we got when looking at houses included details about the HOA, dues, CC&Rs, etc.
In some parts of the country you can't really avoid them (especially in southern cities that have experienced booms-Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville, Dallas etc).
Also this woman was a moron. Everything we got when looking at houses included details about the HOA, dues, CC&Rs, etc.
You *can* avoid them though, it's just hard. Our city was mostly developed in the 90's and early 00's so HOAs are abundant, but we wouldn't even look at neighborhoods that had one. Sure, that left us with only a handful that we could afford living in but we knew that wasn't something we wanted to deal with.
In some parts of the country you can't really avoid them (especially in southern cities that have experienced booms-Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville, Dallas etc).
Also this woman was a moron. Everything we got when looking at houses included details about the HOA, dues, CC&Rs, etc.
You *can* avoid them though, it's just hard. Our city was mostly developed in the 90's and early 00's so HOAs are abundant, but we wouldn't even look at neighborhoods that had one. Sure, that left us with only a handful that we could afford living in but we knew that wasn't something we wanted to deal with.
For us it meant either urban living, over-priced gentrified neighborhoods with less than desirable schools or living on acreage.
In some parts of the country you can't really avoid them (especially in southern cities that have experienced booms-Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville, Dallas etc).
Also this woman was a moron. Everything we got when looking at houses included details about the HOA, dues, CC&Rs, etc.
She's an older woman and she paid cash for the house. She didn't even know what an HOA was - she thought it was a social neighborhood thing or something. She didn't want any of the services they were supposedly offering her, so she didn't understand why she should have to join and pay for it.
Nathan Billings, an attorney for the Masterson Station Neighborhood Association, said the association did not know anyone lived at the house. The court appointed a "warning order attorney," whose job it is to make an effort to track down defendants in debt cases.
The warning order attorney also tried reaching Boak by certified mail, but the letter was returned. Despite a warning from that attorney that Boak "has not been notified of the nature and pendency" of the foreclosure, the case proceeded anyway.
The home was sold and the proceeds were divided up, according to court documents, among the homeowner's association, attorneys, the master commissioner and Boak. Boak received about $88,000 from the sale of her house, about $40,000 less than it was worth.
I just think it's utterly absurd that some private organization should have the power to force you to join an organization you don't want to be part of, tell you what to do with the house that YOU paid for and YOU own, and they can take your entire house out from under you if you don't do what they say or if you don't even agree to join their organization. It's a travesty and I can't understand how it even exists in this country.
In some parts of the country you can't really avoid them (especially in southern cities that have experienced booms-Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville, Dallas etc).
Also this woman was a moron. Everything we got when looking at houses included details about the HOA, dues, CC&Rs, etc.
She's an older woman and she paid cash for the house. She didn't even know what an HOA was - she thought it was a social neighborhood thing or something.
Nathan Billings, an attorney for the Masterson Station Neighborhood Association, said the association did not know anyone lived at the house. The court appointed a "warning order attorney," whose job it is to make an effort to track down defendants in debt cases.
The warning order attorney also tried reaching Boak by certified mail, but the letter was returned. Despite a warning from that attorney that Boak "has not been notified of the nature and pendency" of the foreclosure, the case proceeded anyway.
The home was sold and the proceeds were divided up, according to court documents, among the homeowner's association, attorneys, the master commissioner and Boak. Boak received about $88,000 from the sale of her house, about $40,000 less than it was worth.
I just think it's utterly absurd that some private organization should have the power to force you to join an organization you don't want to be part of, tell you what to do with the house that YOU paid for and YOU own, and they can take your entire house out from under you if you don't do what they say or if you don't even agree to join their organization. It's a travesty and I can't understand how it even exists in this country.
Even if she paid cash for her house she should have had a real estate closing where she had to sign HOA paperwork. If the HOA wasn't disclosed she should be filing with her Title company and suing her realtor and closing attorney
Maybe things work differently in Kentucky, but here if you're buying a home in an area with an HOA, the seller is required to provide you with a copy of the HOA bylaws and covenants prior to closing. The buyer has to initial a document saying they've read them as part of the closing paperwork.
If HOAs aren't someone's thing, then no biggie. But this woman's a grownup who completed a grownup real estate transaction when she bought her house. If her due diligence was so poor that she didn't even know the basics of how her HOA worked, then I'm having a hard time mustering much sympathy for her.
Post by jillboston on Nov 16, 2013 12:56:36 GMT -5
I've never run across one in MA - and that's after almost 20 years of real estate law practice and 100's of closings. What do they even do? Collect trash? private security?
I've never run across one in MA - and that's after almost 20 years of real estate law practice and 100's of closings. What do they even do? Collect trash? private security?
Around here they typically collect money for the care of community property (parks, pools, playgrounds, neighborhood signs, etc.) and also provide regulations on things like keeping broken down cars in your driveway, mowing your lawn, and caring for your home. Some go as far as to regulate what type of swing set you can put in your backyard, what kind of curtains/blinds you can have on your windows and what colors you can paint your house, but those kind are a little less common.
Around here they only contract with services like trash if you're outside of city limits.
Why are homeowner's associations such a thing anyways? Why are they everywhere? What is the upside to them? I've only lived in apartments so I have no idea.
I've never run across one in MA - and that's after almost 20 years of real estate law practice and 100's of closings. What do they even do? Collect trash? private security?
Around here they typically collect money for the care of community property (parks, pools, playgrounds, neighborhood signs, etc.) and also provide regulations on things like keeping broken down cars in your driveway, mowing your lawn, and caring for your home. Some go as far as to regulate what type of swing set you can put in your backyard, what kind of curtains/blinds you can have on your windows and what colors you can paint your house, but those kind are a little less common.
Around here they only contract with services like trash if you're outside of city limits.
Hmmm. Does that mean there is a much lower corresponding property tax in that city/town? Or none maybe I imagine. Interesting. Thanks.
I've never run across one in MA - and that's after almost 20 years of real estate law practice and 100's of closings. What do they even do? Collect trash? private security?
In some places, they literally do nothing except take your money. I lived in an HOA like that - they did nothing at all. There was nothing to maintain, they provided no services, no facilities. But it was $190 a month just for the privilege of living there. One I lived in maintained a small playground that no one ever used and the neighborhood sign out front, but that was it. The one I live in now, we rent so we don't pay the dues, but they have a pool, a small clubhouse and a pond, and the dues go to maintaining those things.
H and I have both vowed to never, ever live in an HOA community again, but down South, they are incredibly hard to avoid. It's a huge, huge business here.
Why are homeowner's associations such a thing anyways? Why are they everywhere? What is the upside to them? I've only lived in apartments so I have no idea.
Because there are large HOA corporations who own them and they make a shitton of money off of them. And they have ties to the state legislators who make deals with developers to make all the communities HOAs.
Around here they typically collect money for the care of community property (parks, pools, playgrounds, neighborhood signs, etc.) and also provide regulations on things like keeping broken down cars in your driveway, mowing your lawn, and caring for your home. Some go as far as to regulate what type of swing set you can put in your backyard, what kind of curtains/blinds you can have on your windows and what colors you can paint your house, but those kind are a little less common.
Around here they only contract with services like trash if you're outside of city limits.
Hmmm. Does that mean there is a much lower corresponding property tax in that city/town? Or none maybe I imagine. Interesting. Thanks.
I've never run across one in MA - and that's after almost 20 years of real estate law practice and 100's of closings. What do they even do? Collect trash? private security?
In some places, they literally do nothing except take your money. I lived in an HOA like that - they did nothing at all. There was nothing to maintain, they provided no services, no facilities. But it was $190 a month just for the privilege of living there. One I lived in maintained a small playground that no one ever used and the neighborhood sign out front, but that was it. The one I live in now, we rent so we don't pay the dues, but they have a pool, a small clubhouse and a pond, and the dues go to maintaining those things.
H and I have both vowed to never, ever live in an HOA community again, but down South, they are incredibly hard to avoid. It's a huge, huge business here.
This seems so bizarre to me. MA has an ancient housing stock and cities and towns that have been in existence in quite a few cases for 350 years plus so I imagine that's why we don't have them.
Around here they typically collect money for the care of community property (parks, pools, playgrounds, neighborhood signs, etc.) and also provide regulations on things like keeping broken down cars in your driveway, mowing your lawn, and caring for your home. Some go as far as to regulate what type of swing set you can put in your backyard, what kind of curtains/blinds you can have on your windows and what colors you can paint your house, but those kind are a little less common.
Around here they only contract with services like trash if you're outside of city limits.
Hmmm. Does that mean there is a much lower corresponding property tax in that city/town? Or none maybe I imagine. Interesting. Thanks.
Our property taxes are very low. We have no state income tax and our property taxes on a $700k house are about $3500/yr in the best school district in the state.
Our HOA dues are a lot. They provide for several neighborhood parks, tennis courts, a club house, a couple swimming pools, hiking trails, bike paths, neighborhood events, etc.
Fun fact! HOAs originated to keep undesirable non-white people out of neighborhoods.
depts.washington.edu/civilr/covenants.htm No part of said property hereby conveyed shall ever be used or occupied by any person of the Ethiopian, Malay, or any Asiatic race, and the grantee, his heirs, personal representatives or assigns, shall never place any such person in the possession or occupancy of said property
and
No part of said property hereby conveyed shall ever be used or occupied by any Hebrew or by any person of the Ethiopian, Malay or any Asiatic Race...excepting only employees in the domestic service on the premises of persons qualified hereunder as occupants and users and residing on the premises.
In some places, they literally do nothing except take your money. I lived in an HOA like that - they did nothing at all. There was nothing to maintain, they provided no services, no facilities. But it was $190 a month just for the privilege of living there. One I lived in maintained a small playground that no one ever used and the neighborhood sign out front, but that was it. The one I live in now, we rent so we don't pay the dues, but they have a pool, a small clubhouse and a pond, and the dues go to maintaining those things.
H and I have both vowed to never, ever live in an HOA community again, but down South, they are incredibly hard to avoid. It's a huge, huge business here.
This seems so bizarre to me. MA has an ancient housing stock and cities and towns that have been in existence in quite a few cases for 350 years plus so I imagine that's why we don't have them.
This a Barbri question :-). Most HOAs can only bind for 50 years. If the housing stock is over 50 years there can't be a mandatory association
Hmmm. Does that mean there is a much lower corresponding property tax in that city/town? Or none maybe I imagine. Interesting. Thanks.
Our property taxes are very low. We have no state income tax and our property taxes on a $700k house are about $3500/yr in the best school district in the state.
Our HOA dues are a lot. They provide for several neighborhood parks, tennis courts, a club house, a couple swimming pools, hiking trails, bike paths, neighborhood events, etc.
You are in TN correct? It strikes me almost like a gated community.
Fun fact! HOAs originated to keep undesirable non-white people out of neighborhoods.
depts.washington.edu/civilr/covenants.htm No part of said property hereby conveyed shall ever be used or occupied by any person of the Ethiopian, Malay, or any Asiatic race, and the grantee, his heirs, personal representatives or assigns, shall never place any such person in the possession or occupancy of said property
and
No part of said property hereby conveyed shall ever be used or occupied by any Hebrew or by any person of the Ethiopian, Malay or any Asiatic Race...excepting only employees in the domestic service on the premises of persons qualified hereunder as occupants and users and residing on the premises.
Fun fact! HOAs originated to keep undesirable non-white people out of neighborhoods.
depts.washington.edu/civilr/covenants.htm No part of said property hereby conveyed shall ever be used or occupied by any person of the Ethiopian, Malay, or any Asiatic race, and the grantee, his heirs, personal representatives or assigns, shall never place any such person in the possession or occupancy of said property
and
No part of said property hereby conveyed shall ever be used or occupied by any Hebrew or by any person of the Ethiopian, Malay or any Asiatic Race...excepting only employees in the domestic service on the premises of persons qualified hereunder as occupants and users and residing on the premises.
Color me not surprised.
I see what you did there lol
In case it wasn't apparent, HOAs are a hot-button issue for me.
HOA's can suck. We pay $100 a year and don't even have a pool or any anemities for that matter. DH has been trying to get us a pool all year and started a petition. He got 151 yes signatures and 25 no's. Our HOA board is useless and doesn't do shit. We are sick of it. DH will run for the board in Feb.
H and I have both vowed to never, ever live in an HOA community again, but down South, they are incredibly hard to avoid. It's a huge, huge business here. [/quote]
That's the part that always stuns me. How do freedom loving, anti- socialist southern Americans fall for HOAs? It seems so paradoxical.
Another reason this New Englander will never move south! Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch using proboards
Around here they typically collect money for the care of community property (parks, pools, playgrounds, neighborhood signs, etc.) and also provide regulations on things like keeping broken down cars in your driveway, mowing your lawn, and caring for your home. Some go as far as to regulate what type of swing set you can put in your backyard, what kind of curtains/blinds you can have on your windows and what colors you can paint your house, but those kind are a little less common.
Around here they only contract with services like trash if you're outside of city limits.
Hmmm. Does that mean there is a much lower corresponding property tax in that city/town? Or none maybe I imagine. Interesting. Thanks.
Not really in our case - you just get some nicer amenities that otherwise the city couldn't provide in your neighborhood.
And although all of the things I listed above were deterrents, the main reason that we wanted to avoid an HOA was because of our dog (we have a pit bull). There are some HOAs around here that have breed restrictions and we didn't want to ever deal with the possibility of that.
Why are homeowner's associations such a thing anyways? Why are they everywhere? What is the upside to them? I've only lived in apartments so I have no idea.
In addition to the points that ttt already covered, there seems to be a lot of people who believe down to their toes that NOT having an HOA means living in constant terror that your neighbor is going to let his lawn go to seed, or paint his fence chartreuse, or open an auto body shop on his front lawn, which of course means that your property would then be worth about $.14. Because that ALWAYS happens when there's no HOA to prevent it. And these people are perfectly content to be told how to maintain their property if it means not having to risk the above scenarios.