S/O kids riding on laps

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2013 20:23:32 GMT -5 lolaburns said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:20:06 GMT -5 @pcloadletter said:

I kind of lol that the cops are going to be concerned with kids out of seats in a closed park. They likely have better things to do

This is what my H said.

I was talking in the small chance of an accident you would probably be ticketed. Not that cops are sitting there ticketing people as them come in.

[kkfeb04]

Dec 1, 2013 19:34:50 GMT -5 charlielove said:

I'm gonna pull up a seat next to you and give this face.

[charlielove]

Dec 1, 2013 20:20:40 GMT -5 showdogz said:

I guess I really don't understand how people are afraid of a hayride that may go on a road either. Tractors drive on the road all the time. I guess I don't get it and it may have to do with where we live. I live in actual farm country, maybe some people are referring to cities?

Because you would be on the road in an open trailer with an unrestrained child. It doesn't have anything to do with living in farm country or not.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2013 20:24:00 GMT -5 @thadsrad said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:19:38 GMT -5 @lindy said:

They would probably ticket you if an accident (fender bender) occurred even if you weren't at fault.

Probably. I see that outcome as about as likely as an accident in these mythical drive through light displays. I'm not jaywalking across mass ave in Boston (anymore) and I wouldn't go to a light display with 700 cars driving 20 miles an hour.

That's fine. I'm not telling anybody they can't do it. I'm just saying I would not do it. Legality is one reason, chance of being rear ended is the other main reason. Same way we all forward face at different times, use blankets in cribs at different ages. We all have different comfort zones. I'm not comfortable with it. I also used the angel care monitor for a year so maybe I'm not the best person to ask.

[showdogz]

Dec 1, 2013 20:24:00 GMT -5 @thadsrad said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:19:38 GMT -5 @lindy said:

They would probably ticket you if an accident (fender bender) occurred even if you weren't at fault.

Probably. I see that outcome as about as likely as an accident in these mythical drive through light displays. I'm not jaywalking across mass ave in Boston (anymore) and I wouldn't go to a light display with 700 cars driving 20 miles an hour.

But they do exsist:
www.thecountrychristmas.com/

[eav2c]

In Nashville, there's this. On the main city roads. Its a traveling tavern. Lots of drunks and beer and crazy. I'd like to know how it is legal?

Anyways, back to the actual topic. I guess because a hay ride is not on a road of any sort that I am not bothered by it and it goes like 5mph. On a road, some crazy asshole could slam into you. Not worth the risk.

[devonpow]

I'm such a city girl...I had no idea tractors went on actual roads. I've been on plenty of hay rides, but they have always been in orchards, etc. going about 1 mile per hour, lol.

That is all i have to contribute to this conversation.

[showdogz]

Dec 1, 2013 20:27:13 GMT -5 charlielove said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:20:40 GMT -5 showdogz said:

I guess I really don't understand how people are afraid of a hayride that may go on a road either. Tractors drive on the road all the time. I guess I don't get it and it may have to do with where we live. I live in actual farm country, maybe some people are referring to cities?

Because you would be on the road in an open trailer with an unrestrained child. It doesn't have anything to do with living in farm country or not.

Well, open trailer I could see being a bit nervous. All the wagons I've seen have sides on them though.

[Faevantastic]

I'm just throwing this into the loop... the Christmas light shows here are in closed parks and they actually have signs that asks you to keep your headlights off (as well as keep your speed slow). Pretty sure driving without headlights on in the dark isn't legal either.

[charlielove]

Dec 1, 2013 20:30:50 GMT -5 showdogz said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:27:13 GMT -5 charlielove said:

Because you would be on the road in an open trailer with an unrestrained child. It doesn't have anything to do with living in farm country or not.

Well, open trailer I could see being a bit nervous. All the wagons I've seen have sides on them though.

I meant any kind of trailer or apparatus that is attached to a tractor/truck. Sides or no sides.

[showdogz]

Dec 1, 2013 20:36:51 GMT -5 charlielove said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:30:50 GMT -5 showdogz said:

Well, open trailer I could see being a bit nervous. All the wagons I've seen have sides on them though.

I meant any kind of trailer or apparatus that is attached to a tractor/truck. Sides or no sides.

Yeah, I just don't see that big of a deal here then. The kid is on your lap if they are young. If you don't think they will stay there, I wouldn't take them in the first place. I also rode my horse on the side of roads when I was young if they were busy. On my own dead end 0.5 mile road, I'd take my horse to the end bareback with just a halter and she would run as fast as she could back home as I held on in the middle of the road. Best times of my life. 

I imagine if you are from the city, you gasp at the thought of that. But growing up, that is what me and my friends did. That is what I meant by regional differences.  

[charlielove]

Dec 1, 2013 20:44:12 GMT -5 showdogz said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:36:51 GMT -5 charlielove said:

I meant any kind of trailer or apparatus that is attached to a tractor/truck. Sides or no sides.

Yeah, I just don't see that big of a deal here then. The kid is on your lap if they are young. If you don't think they will stay there, I wouldn't take them in the first place. I also rode my horse on the side of roads when I was young if they were busy. On my own dead end 0.5 mile road, I'd take my horse to the end bareback with just a halter and she would run as fast as she could back home as I held on in the middle of the road. Best times of my life. 

I imagine if you are from the city, you gasp at the thought of that. But growing up, that is what me and my friends did. That is what I meant by regional differences.  

I grew up in the country. I rode horses and ATVs in fields all by myself, but not on roads. We just have different perspectives.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2013 20:44:12 GMT -5 showdogz said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:36:51 GMT -5 charlielove said:

I meant any kind of trailer or apparatus that is attached to a tractor/truck. Sides or no sides.

Yeah, I just don't see that big of a deal here then. The kid is on your lap if they are young. If you don't think they will stay there, I wouldn't take them in the first place. I also rode my horse on the side of roads when I was young if they were busy. On my own dead end 0.5 mile road, I'd take my horse to the end bareback with just a halter and she would run as fast as she could back home as I held on in the middle of the road. Best times of my life. 

I imagine if you are from the city, you gasp at the thought of that. But growing up, that is what me and my friends did. That is what I meant by regional differences.  

Not addressing the hayrack topic but just your comments on what you did as a kid.  Generally speaking, doing stuff now that you did as a child because you did it doesn't mean it is safe of should be done again.  There is a reason child deaths have gone down by like half since the 1970's.  

[rxbeth]

I don't even know what's going on in this thread! *streaking by*

[showdogz]

Dec 1, 2013 20:53:28 GMT -5 @lindy said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:44:12 GMT -5 showdogz said:

Yeah, I just don't see that big of a deal here then. The kid is on your lap if they are young. If you don't think they will stay there, I wouldn't take them in the first place. I also rode my horse on the side of roads when I was young if they were busy. On my own dead end 0.5 mile road, I'd take my horse to the end bareback with just a halter and she would run as fast as she could back home as I held on in the middle of the road. Best times of my life. 

I imagine if you are from the city, you gasp at the thought of that. But growing up, that is what me and my friends did. That is what I meant by regional differences.  

Not addressing the hayrack topic but just your comments on what you did as a kid.  Generally speaking, doing stuff now that you did as a child because you did it doesn't mean it is safe of should be done again.  There is a reason child deaths have gone down by like half since the 1970's.  

People ride their horses on the road still. Not just me. Every summer. And I was doing this in the 90's, so.... Horseriding in general is not safe. I think about doing that still. I really did love it. And I imagine if I ever get a horse again and the kids want to ride them down to the cornfield via the road, I'd let them.

[lolaburns]

Dec 1, 2013 20:25:27 GMT -5 @lindy said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:23:32 GMT -5 lolaburns said:

This is what my H said.

I was talking in the small chance of an accident you would probably be ticketed. Not that cops are sitting there ticketing people as them come in.

IDK... In NYC cabs it isn't against the law to not have an infant or toddler in a car seat. I just have a differing perspective. I fly without putting L in a car seat on the plane. I assess the risk of 5 mph in a relatively controlled environment as very low for an incident the same as colliding with the Jetway or another airplane on a plane. Or worse yet, crash but then being restrained would be the least of my worries.

You think doing this is ok... Cool. You don't... Cool! It's a personal decision whether abiding by a law or not.

[spaghetticat]

Dec 1, 2013 20:13:08 GMT -5 showdogz said:

Dec 1, 2013 20:00:50 GMT -5 @lindy said:

I'm surprised nobody who wants to do a lap ride is addressing the legality? Assuming its 100% safe, it's still illegal. We smash people for early FFing because of the legality so I don't see the difference.

Hay rack rides on a farm are legal, I don't know if they are legal on a street, but I have never seen one that way so I assume here it isn't.

Are you really that much of a law-abiding citizen? I mean ever jay walk in your life or absolutely not b/c it is illegal? I just find that reading everything in black and white is not my style. 

I have never been to a light show, but I kind of doubt that they are handing out tickets to parents who have kids on their laps. And it doesn't matter what age b/c seat belts are the law too. If I were to go, I'd bring my kid on my lap. I just don't think he can see as well on the side and inside a big car seat. Even if someone were to hit us, I don't see serious harm coming on if you turn your airbags off. People can run 5mph right? So it can't be much more dangerous than running with your kid in a stroller?

I gotta say, I'm surprised you would post this after your other carseat post.

I don't think all tractors/tractor rides are created equal, as seen in this post.

[Regina Philange]

This is totally irrelevant but I have gotten a fucking stupid ass jay walking ticket twice. I'm still pissed about it.

[thedahliharpa]

And then there are sleigh rides. All that dashing through the snow...and the jingling.

[lolaburns]

Dec 1, 2013 22:36:19 GMT -5 thedahliharpa said:

And then there are sleigh rides. All that dashing through the snow...and the jingling.

Don't forget the rowdy reindeer and horses.

[Regina Philange]

Dec 1, 2013 20:30:23 GMT -5 devonpow said:

I'm such a city girl...I had no idea tractors went on actual roads. I've been on plenty of hay rides, but they have always been in orchards, etc. going about 1 mile per hour, lol.

That is all i have to contribute to this conversation.

Oh and this for me too.

Eta: the one mile per hour hayride part. I've only been on a haunted hayride though. I think. So I wouldn't bring Lou on that yet anyways.

[Regina Philange]

Dec 1, 2013 22:42:00 GMT -5 @therealmc said:

Dec 1, 2013 22:36:02 GMT -5 Regina Philange said:

This is totally irrelevant but I have gotten a fucking stupid ass jay walking ticket twice. I'm still pissed about it.

How the shit do they enforce that?

Fifty dollar ticket! They pulled my H and I over in Long beach island because we ran across the street. It was the off season. We were taking our boating license test.

The other time I was in Tampa. Whoops. I deserved that one though. The LBI one, we did not!

Eta: we ran across the street to where our car was parked. He pulled us over once we were in the car.

[creamsiclechica]

I'm not really sure why we can't just agree to have different perspectives here. If I'm in my car, at any point, at any speed, my child is properly restrained in a car seat. It is the law, and it's the law for a reason, and honestly, we can't pick and choose exemptions to that for a reason too. Safety is paramount in this situation for me, and it's just not a risk I'm comfortable taking.

I wouldn't take them on a hayride until they're older, and the thought of buses still gives me anxiety. If that makes me a paranoid fun ruiner, than so be it, haha.

[jena]

Dec 1, 2013 22:36:19 GMT -5 thedahliharpa said:

And then there are sleigh rides. All that dashing through the snow...and the jingling.

And what if you crashed into a drifted bank and got upsot?!! Your jingling won't save you then!

[Dorothy Zbornak]

Dec 2, 2013 0:25:29 GMT -5 jena said:

Dec 1, 2013 22:36:19 GMT -5 thedahliharpa said:

And then there are sleigh rides. All that dashing through the snow...and the jingling.

And what if you crashed into a drifted bank and got upsot?!! Your jingling won't save you then!

Stellar use of the word upsot!

[shevacc]

At a closed street light show, I wouldn't take her out of her car seat bc I don't want her to think it's ok to sometimes ride in a car without one (and potentially fuel future "no car seat" tantrums). But I wouldn't side-eye other people for the safety factor. I wouldn't take G on a hayride yet since the one we saw most recently went ~10-15mph over bumps and the kids were squealing and hanging on.

[rubber pants]

I have no problems with hay rides. We have taken a bunch this year, and even went on one this past weekend while getting our tree. M loves them!

When in a moving vehicle, she will never be out of her carseat. Its not worth it. She can see the lights when she's older.

[laurack]

never heard of this drive by light show thingy. But assuming it was truly a closed road, and limit of 5mph I guess I wouldn't judge somebody who did this, assuming they had the child properly restrained for the journey to and from the area.

Personally I would not do it/take her out of her carseat in the car at any time. I am not comfortable with it.

However, I do other things that carry danger. I fly with her as a lap child and will with the next child. I have taken/would take her on a bus or a train. Sure trains and buses are statistically much safer than cars but is a train/bus safer than a car going 5mph in a closed road? I can only assume a bus travelling at speeds of 30-50mph in regular traffic would carry a higher chance injury/fatality statistically than the light show situation though I don't have the facts.

I am afraid of having her on a bus or a train but I will do it if I need to.

I am afraid when I carry her in my lap on the plane but not enough to pay $1,000 for an extra ticket.

Also I walk with her regularly as a pedestrian and some day she will ride a bicycle around the neighbourhood. All these things carry traffic related risks though they do not involve being in a car and unrestrained. Everything carries a risk.

I guess I'm saying, we all make choices and have our own comfort level. There are things I judge and vocally so- taking a child unrestrained in a car in regular traffic for any reason outside true emergency (this includes cabs which do not travel in invisible bubbles of safety), I frown upon. A deep frown.

Not taking some time to learn about carseat safety/outright ignoring carseat safety advice when provided it (about tightening straps, not wearing puffy coats, FF at a young age etc.) being unaware is one thing. Being presented the facts and ignoring them is another. This I frown upon.

But a lap child in a 5mph car procession or a hayride? I guess I just can't muster the outrage for this.