Smoking guest - WDYT?

[winnied]

I think it's rude if a person doesn't clean up after him/herself. I don't think it's rude to smoke outside of someone's home. I think it would actually be considerate of you, as the host, to provide an ash tray outside.

I'm not a smoker but a lot of people in my extended family are/were. This isn't the place or time for you to dictate their personal choices.

[catbus]

I guess I'm in the minority, and am surprised to be. For such short visits, I think it's absolutely OK to request he refrain from smoking. Thirdhand smoke, including what clings to clothing, is very bad for babies and young children. If they were staying for full days, it would be a bit much to ask him to not smoke, but for an hour or two? He should be able to deal.

[JayhawkGirl]

Dec 4, 2013 13:47:43 GMT -5 thejen626 said:

If you don't provide an ash tray, what do you expect the smokers to do with the butts?

I ask my BIL to flush them. I hate the smell in my trash can.

[winnied]

Dec 4, 2013 14:57:19 GMT -5 catbus said:

I guess I'm in the minority, and am surprised to be. For such short visits, I think it's absolutely OK to request he refrain from smoking. Thirdhand smoke, including what clings to clothing, is very bad for babies and young children. If they were staying for full days, it would be a bit much to ask him to not smoke, but for an hour or two? He should be able to deal.

How is it better to have this rule for short-term visits and not long-term ones? Especially if you're concerned with third-hand smoke. 

[msmerymac]

3rd hand smoke can be mitigated if he washed his hands and changed his shirt when he came inside, too.

[maddysmum]

On the scale of rude, I think telling a loved one that they were not allowed to go outside and smoke would be ruder than a guest taking themselves outside to smoke.

Be proactive and put something out there for butts so you don't wind up crabby later and suck up the stink for a few hours, once in a blue moon because this isn't the hill you want to die on.

[Deleted]

I don't have a problem with them smoking as long as they are outside. However, throwing butts in the lawn is rude. Do you know for sure it was his though? We forever have people walking/driving by and throwing their butts in our lawn.

[catbus]

Dec 4, 2013 16:43:28 GMT -5 winnied said:

Dec 4, 2013 14:57:19 GMT -5 catbus said:

I guess I'm in the minority, and am surprised to be. For such short visits, I think it's absolutely OK to request he refrain from smoking. Thirdhand smoke, including what clings to clothing, is very bad for babies and young children. If they were staying for full days, it would be a bit much to ask him to not smoke, but for an hour or two? He should be able to deal.

How is it better to have this rule for short-term visits and not long-term ones? Especially if you're concerned with third-hand smoke. 

Well, it wouldn't solve the issue of the smoke itself, but I think it is reasonable to ask a smoker to refrain from smoking for a short period of time, but less reasonable for longer periods. It would be my way of finding a middle ground. Plus, if most of the OP's FIL's visits are fairly short, this would mitigate the effect of his smoking on her daughter. 

[catsarecute]

My FIL seems to have started smoking again and he was in our house this weekend, helping make plans for some projects in the nursery. He was in the room for all of 10 minutes but when he left, I had to open the windows because it smelled horrible.

I don't think I could ever say "please don't smoke before you come over to our house" and I have never noticed him leaving to smoke when he is there for a visit but I sympathize with you on this issue. It is a tough situation to be in because I am really sensitive to the smell of cigarettes and don't want my house smelling like them, even for a short time!

[jennistarr1]

Dec 4, 2013 14:26:02 GMT -5 ladygrey said:

Dec 4, 2013 13:57:24 GMT -5 Susie said:

It sounds to me like the fact that he smokes annoys you, OP, so there probably won't be any kind of compromise that satisfies you.  But they're family, so you should try.  Leaving butts around is poor form on FIL's part, but at the same time, what WAS he supposed to do with them?  You could probably help him smoke in a way that affects you less directly, and maybe even makes him feel more welcome/less ostracized for it - maybe an ash tray or something for butts that's further away from the door, and gently encourages him to smoke further from the house?

You're right, I am very annoyed with his smoking habit, so maybe this is just a "bitch eating crackers" kind of situation, lol.

As far as the butt disposal, I thought he would put the used butts in their car's ashtray (he does smoke in the car). I don't feel great about providing an ashtray at our home; it seems like that would be encouraging his habit, when everyone in the family is trying to support his quitting efforts. He did get an e-cigarette recently, so maybe that's a step in the right direction?

Cars don't have ashtrays anymore

[catbus]

Dec 4, 2013 19:01:29 GMT -5 jennistarr1 said:

Dec 4, 2013 14:26:02 GMT -5 ladygrey said:

You're right, I am very annoyed with his smoking habit, so maybe this is just a "bitch eating crackers" kind of situation, lol.

As far as the butt disposal, I thought he would put the used butts in their car's ashtray (he does smoke in the car). I don't feel great about providing an ashtray at our home; it seems like that would be encouraging his habit, when everyone in the family is trying to support his quitting efforts. He did get an e-cigarette recently, so maybe that's a step in the right direction?

Cars don't have ashtrays anymore

New cars don't come with ashtrays as standard equipment anymore, but there are definitely still cars on the road that would have come with them, and I do know that ashtrays are options on most, if not all, new cars.

[steph96]

My FIL also smokes and I hate it. Our couch reeks for days after he sits there. But I would still never even consider asking him to not smoke outside our home.

Hopefully the e-cigarette will help both you and your FIL.

[undecidedowl]

I find it interesting that people still consider smoking something worthy of such respect. I understand telling someone to get over a smell, but third hand smoke is more than just a smell, it is toxic. I am not going to go out of my way to be rude to someone who smokes, but I see nothing wrong with protecting my family and my home. The only reason I would MYOB is because I am anti-confrontation.

[agnes]

I find smoking disgusting. I think it's a horrible habit.

That being said, we know smokers. Family and friends. I love these people and I can't make them change, no matter how much I want them to.

We have an ashtray in our backyard.

[catbus]

So, since I was basically the lone dissenter until undecidedowl chief in, I wondered if I was really that weird, and asked H his opinion. His initial answer was that he wouldn't ask the person to refrain from smoking. Then I asked if his answer would be different if an infant lived in the home, and he said yes, especially if the smoker holds the baby. He agreed the third hand smoke is hazardous. So, that's his dividing line.

FWIW, I've read many recommendations (maybe it's an official AAP rec?) for smokers to bathe and change into clean clothes before coming into contact with an infant. I'm not exceptionally paranoid about my kid, but I definitely didn't want him held by anyone who had recently smoked.

Edit: I'm looking up sources on third hand smoke and SIDS. There's a lot out there... www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-third-hand-smoke
www.askdrsears.com/topics/parenting/child-rearing-and-development/bringing-baby-home/how-smoking-harms-babies/4-ways
www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/smoke/protect-your-baby.pdf
www.pregnancy.org/article/third-hand-smoke-affects-your-baby
m.parenting.com/entry/view/id/9843

[jennistarr1]

Dec 4, 2013 20:26:10 GMT -5 undecidedowl said:

I find it interesting that people still consider smoking something worthy of such respect. I understand telling someone to get over a smell, but third hand smoke is more than just a smell, it is toxic. I am not going to go out of my way to be rude to someone who smokes, but I see nothing wrong with protecting my family and my home. The only reason I would MYOB is because I am anti-confrontation.

I don't know  this to be true, any studies you can show me...I don't think it can be worse than other things in our environment like car exhaust...but I am willing to keep a dip en mind...and yes I do respect peoples right to smoke and think this prohibition is pretty American 

[Deleted]

Dec 4, 2013 13:50:19 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Dec 4, 2013 13:47:43 GMT -5 thejen626 said:

If you don't provide an ash tray, what do you expect the smokers to do with the butts?

That's no excuse to throw them in someone's yard. My dad will put them out and put them in his pocket for later disposal or throw them in the garbage when he comes back inside.

Wouldn't that smell worse? If you're that sensitive to smoke, it's probably better he smokes outside and puts the cigarette outside. I don't think it's rude if he is smoking outside. If you want, request he moves away from the house and give him something to dispose the cigarette in, maybe an old jar or bottle. 

[thejen626]

Dec 4, 2013 20:26:10 GMT -5 undecidedowl said:

I find it interesting that people still consider smoking something worthy of such respect. I understand telling someone to get over a smell, but third hand smoke is more than just a smell, it is toxic. I am not going to go out of my way to be rude to someone who smokes, but I see nothing wrong with protecting my family and my home. The only reason I would MYOB is because I am anti-confrontation.

I think cigarettes (and smokers really) are foul and disgusting. I have less than zero respect for cigarettes.

However, I'm not going to be rude to my DH's aunt that smokes. I ask her to wash her hands, and obviously no one is smoking around me or my kids, but a lot of people smoke in DH's circle, so I tolerate it, and try to make it easier for them, and me.

[barefootcontessa]

I think you have to decide if this is a battle worth fighting. All the adults on my husband's side are smokers. They leave their butts in our yard, granted it is large but still. And they want to play with the kids and hold the baby while they are here and after they smoke. I have so many other issues with them that I just look the other way but I think they are inconsiderate at best. It seems like in your case they could refrain for an hour or so. I do not think that is unreasonable. Also I do not think this is an MYOB situation because this behavior occurs in your home and affects you and your family.

[undecidedowl]

Dec 4, 2013 22:12:08 GMT -5 jennistarr1 said:

Dec 4, 2013 20:26:10 GMT -5 undecidedowl said:

I find it interesting that people still consider smoking something worthy of such respect. I understand telling someone to get over a smell, but third hand smoke is more than just a smell, it is toxic. I am not going to go out of my way to be rude to someone who smokes, but I see nothing wrong with protecting my family and my home. The only reason I would MYOB is because I am anti-confrontation.

I don't know  this to be true, any studies you can show me...I don't think it can be worse than other things in our environment like car exhaust...but I am willing to keep a dip en mind...and yes I do respect peoples right to smoke and think this prohibition is pretty American 

There are studies showing that third hand smoke contains carcinogenic toxins and that it is mutagenic.  What is lacking are clinical outcomes, but I'm willing to make the leap that it's not good.  Of course there are many other things in our environment that are also damaging but this is one I can avoid and will.  It's quite a jump to prohibition when we were talking about private property rather than legality, but I don't see how this is an American issue when smoking bans are being enforced worldwide.  I think it's crazy that we continue to allow production of tobacco while things like HFCS are being banned in Europe, but that's politics.


mutage.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/4/381.abstract
ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/07/25/ntr.ntt110.abstract
www.pnas.org/content/107/15/6576.short
ajplung.physiology.org/content/301/1/L1

catbus also posted some links about how this impacts babies and children due to their low weight per exposure, increased contact with areas where contaminants settle, and decreased ability to metabolize the toxins.

[thejen626]

Dec 5, 2013 1:53:25 GMT -5 @applesauce said:

Dec 4, 2013 23:35:42 GMT -5 thejen626 said:

I think cigarettes (and smokers really) are foul and disgusting. I have less than zero respect for cigarettes.

However, I'm not going to be rude to my DH's aunt that smokes. I ask her to wash her hands, and obviously no one is smoking around me or my kids, but a lot of people smoke in DH's circle, so I tolerate it, and try to make it easier for them, and me.

you are killing me in this thread. is this the same aunt your wine post was about?

Unfortunately NO, his whole extended family is like this. They are (mostly) nice people, but they definitely are a different culture than how I was raised. I have no idea how my DH ended up so differently than the rest of them.

[barefootcontessa]

Dec 5, 2013 11:27:38 GMT -5 thejen626 said:

Dec 5, 2013 1:53:25 GMT -5 @applesauce said:

you are killing me in this thread. is this the same aunt your wine post was about?

Unfortunately NO, his whole extended family is like this. They are (mostly) nice people, but they definitely are a different culture than how I was raised. I have no idea how my DH ended up so differently than the rest of them.

I ask the same thing about my DH on a regular basis.  

[Deleted]

I agree with the others.  Ok to smoke outside, give him something to use as an ash tray.  

MIL used to smoke in our garage. I assume she thought it was the same as outdoors. But, no, not even close. It was gross. 

[Marmee]

I would be fine with them smoking outside & the smokers I know provide themselves an ashtray (typically a soda can or similar) if there isn't one provided. Then just toss it when done. If its cold removing their jacket usually takes most of the scent away. I'm not picky about it, I grew up with a Mom who smoked in the house, car, etc. so I'm pretty tolerant. (She quit 30yrs ago).

[mrssandro]

MYOB

[SJ]

We have family members who smoke. My parents for example always smoke outside, wash their hands afterwards, and wear special "smoking" clothes/jackets.

I have rarely/never seen them smoke outside of their own yard.

I would definitely stress to them that they need to wash their hands carefully before holding the baby.

If it was someone else that I felt less comfortable with, I would be ok if they went outside to smoke. I would provide an ashtray or a can or bottle or something. I agree it is rude to litter in the yard.

I can't even imagine someone smoking INSIDE my home, and would never allow that.