Has this been discussed? I absolutely understand that this family is grieving, but wouldn't the fact that essentially no medical establishment in this country is willing to take your child, help you see that she is gone? The fact that the coroner would have to release her body out of state says a lot.
Jahi McMath: Oakland brain-dead girl could be removed from ventilator today By Natalie Neysa Alund, Thomas Peele and David DeBolt Oakland Tribune Posted: 12/30/2013 08:00:02 AM PST | Updated: about 6 hours ago
OAKLAND -- The family of Jahi McMath was scrambling Monday to find a facility that will take the brain-dead Oakland girl as a 5 p.m. deadline to remove her from a ventilator approaches.
A Los Angeles-area long-term care facility withdrew its offer over the weekend to accept the 13-year-old, leaving a New York hospital as the only apparent option, her mother and attorney said Sunday.
Sam Singer, a spokesman for Children's Hospital Oakland, said it was the hospital's understanding, based on media reports, that two California facilities and the New York hospital have backed out on the family. The New York facility has not contacted Children's Hospital Oakland, Singer said. Jahi McMath Jahi McMath (Omari Sealey)
Jahi's family and their attorney have not confirmed those reports.
"This is one of the most tragic situations imaginable," Singer said. "No amount of prayer, no amount of hope, no amount of any medical procedure will bring her back."
With the deadline looming, Jahi's lawyer, Christopher Dolan, could file an emergency appeal to keep the girl on the machine. She underwent a tonsillectomy and two other procedures at Children's Hospital Oakland on Dec. 9 to treat sleep apnea and other issues. After she awoke from the operation, her family said, she started bleeding heavily from her mouth and went into cardiac arrest and was later declared brain dead.
"I just found out that the facility my daughter was supposed to be going to has backed out," Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, wrote on the family's fundraising website early Sunday. "My family and I are still striving to find a location that will accept her in her current condition."
That leaves an unnamed New York hospital "as our last, last hope," Jahi's lawyer, Christopher Dolan, said. The facility is run by an "organization that believes in life," Dolan told The Associated Press.
But in a statement issued Sunday, a spokeswoman for Children's Hospital said its doctors said no one from any other medical organization has been in contact with it to discuss a transfer of the 13-year-old.
"Our physicians have yet to receive a single call or message from the facility under consideration," Cynthia Chiarappa wrote. "We have been waiting since Friday -- when we were first told by the family lawyer of a potential facility that might accept the body of Jahi -- for a call from a physician to discuss with our medical staff what may be necessary to transfer the deceased."
Dolan said the unnamed Los Angeles-area facility withdrew its offer because it didn't want media attention or to jeopardize its relationship with its doctors, who refused to treat someone who's been declared brain dead.
As Jahi's family prepared for a Sunday afternoon fundraiser at an Oakland church to help pay for a possible airlift, it remained unclear what will happen in the hours ahead.
Doctors at Children's Hospital have refused to perform a tracheotomy for breathing and insert a gastric tube for feeding, procedures that are needed in order to transfer Jahi, saying it is unethical to perform surgery on a deceased person.
"Discussion about performing medical procedures upon a dead body presents unusual and complicated questions. Until there is a definite commitment by a facility to accept Jahi's body upon specified terms, I don't think I can tackle those issues," hospital lawyer Doug Straus wrote in a letter to Dolan that Chiarappa released Sunday afternoon.
Straus also wrote that the hospital needs to be presented with a "lawful transportation plan" and written approval from the coroner to send her body out of state.
Several doctors, including one appointed by a Superior Court judge, have determined that Jahi is brain-dead and will not recover. Alameda County Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo on Tuesday ruled that Children's Hospital may remove Jahi from a ventilator at 5 p.m. Monday unless an appeal is filed.
Although Jahi was declared brain dead, her family says they believe she is still alive and have fought to keep her on a ventilator even as doctors at Children's Hospital urged them to accept her death.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
Post by cattledogkisses on Dec 30, 2013 16:41:57 GMT -5
I've been following the story and I think that this is the right decision.
I understand how painful it is to have to let someone you love go in this fashion, as I went through something similar with a family member last year, but the poor girl is dead. There is nothing more that medicine can do for her. I do hope that the family is able to get grief/loss counseling.
I thought of the family earlier as I calculated the time difference and called my CA family. I can't fathom what these final hours are like for them. In a way I hope that no other hospital coming in at the 11th hour to take the girl will allow them to start the healing process. Moving her to another facility seems like it would drag their heartache on indefinitely.
Post by NewOrleans on Dec 30, 2013 16:45:11 GMT -5
I feel nothing but terrible for her family. Not because I agree with them, just that I can see their grief in how they want to believe she will come back to them.
Meanwhile in TX, that pregnant woman is still not allowed to die.
I think they have in their minds that she's in a coma and not brain dead. That one day she might open her eyes, it's sadly not the case. When you are deemed to be brain dead...no activity in the brain, there is no coming back.
I feel for them, I really do, I can't begin to imagine holding my child's hand and it feeling warm to the touch and then being told she will never wake up.....I also think the hospital has been less than compassionate to this family and has acted pretty shady. But I think the family needs to let her go, donate her organs and help some people out who are on the list.
My friend's little sister was riding her bike in Sept. and was hit by a guy who blew a .3. She was declared brain dead and they turned of the machines. Her organs helped a man and two babies.
I think they have in their minds that she's in a coma and not brain dead. That one day she might open her eyes, it's sadly not the case. When you are deemed to be brain dead...no activity in the brain, there is no coming back.
I feel for them, I really do, I can't begin to imagine holding my child's hand and it feeling warm to the touch and then being told she will never wake up.....I also think the hospital has been less than compassionate to this family and has acted pretty shady. But I think the family needs to let her go, donate her organs and help some people out who are on the list.
My friend's little sister was riding her bike in Sept. and was hit by a guy who blew a .3. She was declared brain dead and they turned of the machines. Her organs helped a man and two babies.
Please explain how the hospital has been shady. From everything I've read they've actually gone above and beyond for this family, including bending the hospital rules for them in terms of visiting hours/number of people allowed at one time/etc.
I think they have in their minds that she's in a coma and not brain dead. That one day she might open her eyes, it's sadly not the case. When you are deemed to be brain dead...no activity in the brain, there is no coming back.
I feel for them, I really do, I can't begin to imagine holding my child's hand and it feeling warm to the touch and then being told she will never wake up.....I also think the hospital has been less than compassionate to this family and has acted pretty shady. But I think the family needs to let her go, donate her organs and help some people out who are on the list.
My friend's little sister was riding her bike in Sept. and was hit by a guy who blew a .3. She was declared brain dead and they turned of the machines. Her organs helped a man and two babies.
Please explain how the hospital has been shady. From everything I've read they've actually gone above and beyond for this family, including bending the hospital rules for them in terms of visiting hours/number of people allowed at one time/etc.
the hospital involved as been FAR from shady. they've gone above and beyond the call of duty on this one.
"But I think the family needs to let her go, donate her organs and help some people out who are on the list. "
It's funny you mention this; I have family praying for her organs right now for another family member on deaths door if she doesn't get a new heart and two new lungs soon. She's also in the Bay Area. It's very macabre.
I think they have in their minds that she's in a coma and not brain dead. That one day she might open her eyes, it's sadly not the case. When you are deemed to be brain dead...no activity in the brain, there is no coming back.
I feel for them, I really do, I can't begin to imagine holding my child's hand and it feeling warm to the touch and then being told she will never wake up.....I also think the hospital has been less than compassionate to this family and has acted pretty shady. But I think the family needs to let her go, donate her organs and help some people out who are on the list.
My friend's little sister was riding her bike in Sept. and was hit by a guy who blew a .3. She was declared brain dead and they turned of the machines. Her organs helped a man and two babies.
Please explain how the hospital has been shady. From everything I've read they've actually gone above and beyond for this family, including bending the hospital rules for them in terms of visiting hours/number of people allowed at one time/etc.
Alyssa believes it is cruel that they used the word "dead" and "body" to describe her.
eta: I'm wrong. That was someone else. Alyssa just believes the hospital is shady.
The only thing the hospital appears they may have been shady on was before brain death, in how they did or did not respond expeditiously to the bleed that led to brain death. But we don't really how they did or didn't respond because they can't answer. All we know is what the family has said and considering their inability to accept scientific evidence that their daughter is dead, I'm not going to say they are most reliable in the facts of the hospitals actions.
The only thing the hospital appears they may have been shady on was before brain death, in how they did or did not respond expeditiously to the bleed that led to brain death. But we don't really how they did or didn't respond because they can't answer. All we know is what the family has said and considering their inability to accept scientific evidence that their daughter is dead, I'm not going to say they are most reliable in the facts of the hospitals actions.
If I'm being charitable I'm hoping it's their grief that prevents them from hearing the science.
The only thing the hospital appears they may have been shady on was before brain death, in how they did or did not respond expeditiously to the bleed that led to brain death. But we don't really how they did or didn't respond because they can't answer. All we know is what the family has said and considering their inability to accept scientific evidence that their daughter is dead, I'm not going to say they are most reliable in the facts of the hospitals actions.
If I'm being charitable I'm hoping it's their grief that prevents them from hearing the science.
I would help so. Or a stauch belief in God will always heal.
The only thing the hospital appears they may have been shady on was before brain death, in how they did or did not respond expeditiously to the bleed that led to brain death. But we don't really how they did or didn't respond because they can't answer. All we know is what the family has said and considering their inability to accept scientific evidence that their daughter is dead, I'm not going to say they are most reliable in the facts of the hospitals actions.
its my understanding that she went into cardiac arrest post op and while they were able to bring her 'back' there was a substanial amt of O2 depravation that lead to brain death.
Oh, you know I'm less charitable about the god part
For real, I do think I'd read they were religious and believed in miracles. And it doesn't help that it's in pop culture that people can come back from the dead, even a skeptical doctor experienced it and wrote a book. Except for that whole part about not actually being dead.
I will say that the hospital spokesperson I saw on the news last night came off kind of exasperated/frustrated with this family and a wee bit dickish.
I can't blame them. This family is wasting the hospital's time and resources that could be used to save another life instead of making this poor dead teenager linger on.
I don't disagree, but it's bad optics, ya know? And Children's usually does better. Maybe the regular guy was on holiday.
I will say that the hospital spokesperson I saw on the news last night came off kind of exasperated/frustrated with this family and a wee bit dickish.
I can't blame them. This family is wasting the hospital's time and resources that could be used to save another life instead of making this poor dead teenager linger on.
Yeah. I'm with you. These people are exasperating. I can be sympathetic to their tragedy while still being frustrated at the time and expense.
Not to mention, I bet the hospital is sick of getting criticized when they know damn well they're right.
Post by decemberwedding07 on Dec 30, 2013 18:34:28 GMT -5
She underwent a tonsillectomy and two other procedures at Children's Hospital Oakland on Dec. 9 to treat sleep apnea and other issues. After she awoke from the operation, her family said, she started bleeding heavily from her mouth and went into cardiac arrest and was later declared brain dead. I had no idea that this was really even a possibility with something that routine. That's horrible.
I've been following it pretty closely, and yes, I feel horrible for the family and I totally get they are trying to do whatever they can to keep her here among the living.
I'm sure it's a combination of shock, grief, and not understanding the human body/medicine that makes them cling to hope or believe she really isn't dead. Even as a medical professional myself, I am sure that the shock aspect of it would make me not think clearly for a while if something happened to my child like this.
I really feel bad for the hospital, because I feel like despite the fact that they've done all they can, the family will still pursue a wrongful death or negligence lawsuit even though there likely was nothing that could have prevented this.
She underwent a tonsillectomy and two other procedures at Children's Hospital Oakland on Dec. 9 to treat sleep apnea and other issues. After she awoke from the operation, her family said, she started bleeding heavily from her mouth and went into cardiac arrest and was later declared brain dead. I had no idea that this was really even a possibility with something that routine. That's horrible.
DD had a ruptured artery and a blood clot after her tonsillectomy. Her doctor said there was a 2% risk of bleeding after the surgery. The bad thing about the tonsillectomy is that it started bleeding down into her stomach, so we didn't realize she was bleeding until she threw the blood up. She was also taking a nap at the time. They were able to cauterize the bleed, but she lost so much blood that she needed a blood transfusion. On the way to the hospital, I was googling bleeding after tonsillectomies and there was a teenage girl that died from the same thing DD had.
As I understand it, tonsillectomies are actually not as safe and routine as they may seem, because the tonsils are in such a blood vessel-rich area and so close to major arteries. And in children, you just don't have that much room for error because their bodies are so small.
As I understand it, tonsillectomies are actually not as safe and routine as they may seem, because the tonsils are in such a blood vessel-rich area and so close to major arteries. And in children, you just don't have that much room for error because their bodies are so small.
Yep. It's one of the reasons post-op instructions should include watching for increased swallowing. It's usually an early sign of a bleed, and bleeds in that area quickly become emergent situations.
As I understand it, tonsillectomies are actually not as safe and routine as they may seem, because the tonsils are in such a blood vessel-rich area and so close to major arteries. And in children, you just don't have that much room for error because their bodies are so small.
Yep. It's one of the reasons post-op instructions should include watching for increased swallowing. It's usually an early sign of a bleed, and bleeds in that area quickly become emergent situations.
My 4 year old had a tonsillectomy in November and this was one of the post-op instructions. They also told us more than once that if we saw one speck of blood, we needed to go to the pediatric ER immediately. I asked the doctor "one speck? Really?" He repeated "one speck"
My son was also prescribed Lortab for pain control... Tonsillectomies are no joke.