January 2014 Book Club Discussion (spoilers)

[christy082]

So what did you think of The Ocean at the End of the Lane?

[christy082]

This was my first time reading Neil Gaiman, and I was unfortunately disappointed. I really didn't care for this book at all. I rated it 2 stars.

I guess I really didn't see the point of it. And I wanted more backstory on the Hempstocks. Also, I didn't really understand Ursula. She's this creature from another realm that wants to help people by giving them money but also has an extreme hatred towards the main character (which I guess I get because he was her portal into this world that she doesn't want to give up). Why was she so intent on staying in this world?

The descriptions in the book were great- I could imagine being there. But overall the book was just kinda dark and creepy to me (which doesn't usually bother me).

I don't know... I can't quite but a finger on why I didn't like it, but the book was just lacking for me, and I don't have any desire to read anything else by Neil Gaiman.

[aurora]

I had similar impressions about what was going on as loonylunalovegood - the Hempstocks were obviously not normal people, and I think their mission was to try to protect Earth from evil out there in the universe. I think Ursula's main purpose was to do mischief (I think of her as a sort of devil's sidekick - pretty common/necessary in fantasy literature).

I liked the telling from the 7YO perspective because it was different and felt fresh, even though overall it made the book seem more juvenile.

Although I didn't *love* the book, I enjoyed it and thought it was better than both of the other NG books I had read (Stardust and Neverwhere, so I'm at least glad I gave NG another shot).

One of the things I'm not sure I understood was the role of the boy in getting Ursula to stay. Remember how Lettie told him not to let go for anything, and he did (and that's when Ursula attached the portal)? I was also wondering if she needed to afix herself to someone on Earth in order to be able to stay in the first place, but I'm not sure if that was just my imagination or if it was supported by facts.

I need to run now but will come back to this thread later to discuss.

[christy082]

Jan 27, 2014 11:46:00 GMT -5 loonylunalovegood said:

I started out being horrified (the hole in the foot) to really rooting for him when he was running from Ursula to get to the Hempstock farm.

I have a previous love of Neil Gaiman through Doctor Who, his wife, and The Blogess, so I may be biased.

Re: the bolded, me too. 

I think I might be in the minority in how I felt about this book, based on other discussions I read on another site.  Although I've never read fantasy before, so maybe it's just not my thing. 

[Wallflower]

This was my first Neil Gaiman, and I don't think it will be my last. I enjoyed it, particularly because I never felt certain that it would all come out OK. I was quite worried for the boy, which tells me that I'd really become invested in his character. And I liked the ending, that he'd made trips to the farm and never remembered.

All in all, I was pleased to have read the book!

[rootbeerfloat]

I liked it better than the other Neil Gaiman I read (American Gods), but I still don't feel compelled to read more. I was really able to imagine this little village being terrorized by odd creatures from somewhere else. Ursula freaked me out, and I loved all three Hempstocks.

But I did feel like something was lacking at the end. I wanted to know more about his life after Lettie died. I guess he went on to have a fairly average life, but I wished I knew that being saved really saved him. I also wanted to know who's funeral he came home for... his dad's?

I agree that the hole in the foot was like a portal between worlds. She needed it to get in and to get out. So she couldn't kill him or let him escape to the Hempstocks, but she also couldn't manipulate him like she did everyone else.

[fatamy]

I tried to stay open minded through the whole novel, but it really didn't do much for me. Overall it just seemed incomplete. I liked the broader ideas but it fell flat. I loved the imagery and could picture myself in his little shed, running through the fields, etc.

Ursula was so easily 'beaten' and then disappeared. Yes, the bird things stuck around longer, but the climax of the story was so short and not very exciting. Also, it bothered me that Ursula was trying to seduce the father but then nothing came of that, either.

I liked how Lettie was still in the ocean and would come back once she healed, and the fact that he came back several times without really knowing when or how, but wished those things would have been developed.

It seemed very YA to me, but nothing I've read says it is.
Overall I gave it 2 stars, but think it had potential to be more.

[msmerymac]

I recently read the Graveyard Book, and this had a similar feel, but I don't think I liked it quite as much as the Graveyard Book. Interestingly, the GB is children's lit, and this is supposedly adult lit. Aside from there being a few "adult" things (mostly just sex) in this book, they didn't really feel markedly different to me in terms of style, etc. I also heard this was originally going to be a short story, which I can see.

I did feel like the Hempstocks and the story was pretty unique, but also with some classical fantasy elements.

[jcbarbee]

I am new here, to the Book Club Board, christy082 invited me from another board! 

I was very skeptical of the book at first, I thought the first part of the book was slow, and then 100 pages would go by and I didn't even notice it. I guess I really enjoyed this book, which surprised me. 

I definitely agree with everything loonylunalovegood said about the different planes. It was exactly my thinking during the entire book. 

I did like how he had come back at the end and did not know he had been there before, however, I wish he would get to meet Lettie, or it flash to when Lettie came back, even if it was hundreds of years later. It just left me wanting more. 

I was also wondering if he remembered his dad and the bathtub or if the relationship just dwindled because they didn't have anything in common. He mentioned he did not want that part to be taken away from his memory. I thought they needed some more explanation on that relationship. 

This was my first read by Neil Gaiman. I am not sure if I have the desire to read more or not, my list is so long as is, but it was an excellent read. 

EDT: to add more on a subject I forgot

The age range for this book doesn't seem quiet Adult or Children to me, I think it fit in the YA range. I do not think the affair scene was graphic enough to push it to Adult. 

[Vespasia]

Jan 27, 2014 13:46:08 GMT -5 rootbeerfloat said:

But I did feel like something was lacking at the end. I wanted to know more about his life after Lettie died. I guess he went on to have a fairly average life, but I wished I knew that being saved really saved him. I also wanted to know who's funeral he came home for... his dad's?

When he was in the fairy circle Ursula, or a manifestation meant to look like her, says that he'll always have a hole in his heart and will never feel fulfilled. I got the impression that this was somewhat true. He doesn't seem very happy as an adult. 

I don't think Ursula was set on seducing the dad so much as she wanted to give people what they desired. I could be mistaken there though since it certainly helped her to have the father under her sway. 

I also wondered about the father trying to drown the boy in the tub. The book mentions that the father had been beaten by his own father and made a big deal about never hitting his own kids but it's clear he has a temper. I feel like maybe he gave in to violent tendencies that he had otherwise controlled? Not sure that I explained that very well. 


Overall I really enjoyed this book more than I thought I would. The sample didn't pique my interest a few months ago but a third of the way in I was hooked. 

[Wallflower]

Oh wait, I forgot, I have read the Graveyard Book, so this wasn't my first Gaiman.

Oh how easily the brain forgets things. Like when I walk in a room, looking for something, but I don't remember what. Not that that just happened to me or anything.

[charlatti]

Jan 27, 2014 13:26:14 GMT -5 Wallflower said:

And I liked the ending, that he'd made trips to the farm and never remembered.

I loved that part of the ending for some reason. Maybe it reminds me of how you can hear stories about your childhood over and over but the memory isn't really there for a lot of those stories. I love the idea of jogging those back with a place or person but then losing them again.

I liked the book overall, though in some ways I feel like I didn't "get" it completely. In American Gods, it's so clear that NG is drawing on thousands of years of myths and legends, and I really loved that about it. I would guess there are similar origins for this one, but it's harder to see them. It seems more whimsical and less grounded.

[aurora]

Jan 27, 2014 13:46:08 GMT -5 rootbeerfloat said:

...I also wanted to know who's funeral he came home for... his dad's?...

For some reason I thought it was his wife's, but I don't have the book in front of me to check to see if that impression is grounded in reality.

I agree with everyone who has posted about really liking the end and realizing he keeps coming back to the farm and remembering, but then forgets when he is away.  I think this was the best plot element of the book and really left me with a positive impression.

[msmerymac]

Jan 27, 2014 14:45:14 GMT -5 Vespasia said:

Jan 27, 2014 13:46:08 GMT -5 rootbeerfloat said:

But I did feel like something was lacking at the end. I wanted to know more about his life after Lettie died. I guess he went on to have a fairly average life, but I wished I knew that being saved really saved him. I also wanted to know who's funeral he came home for... his dad's?

When he was in the fairy circle Ursula, or a manifestation meant to look like her, says that he'll always have a hole in his heart and will never feel fulfilled. I got the impression that this was somewhat true. He doesn't seem very happy as an adult. 

I don't think Ursula was set on seducing the dad so much as she wanted to give people what they desired. I could be mistaken there though since it certainly helped her to have the father under her sway. 

I also wondered about the father trying to drown the boy in the tub. The book mentions that the father had been beaten by his own father and made a big deal about never hitting his own kids but it's clear he has a temper. I feel like maybe he gave in to violent tendencies that he had otherwise controlled? Not sure that I explained that very well. 


Overall I really enjoyed this book more than I thought I would. The sample didn't pique my interest a few months ago but a third of the way in I was hooked. 

The narrator wouldn't eat any of Ursula's food and seemed to think that it was one way Ursula was controlling the family, since the parents and the sister were so enamored by her. I got the impression when the Dad tried to drown him in the bathtub that it was Ursula who was subtly controlling his thoughts or actions. 

[Dusky]

I'm generally not a big Gaiman fan but I actually liked this one. It had just the right touch of oddity for me.

[MrsAxilla]

Jan 27, 2014 14:14:57 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

I also heard this was originally going to be a short story, which I can see.

I think it would have worked much better as a short story.  I expect unresolved questions, hints and speculation in short stories - like who the Hempstocks really are and where they came from.  I feel like this book only told part the story, and maybe not even the most interesting parts.  

I did enjoy it, though.  I liked the young boy as the narrator and the fact that he'd been back to the farmhouse and didn't remember.  Like Vespasia pointed out, I think the boy went back periodically not only so Lettie could check in on him, but also because he had a hole in his heart and was searching for how to fill it.  

Also, did the boy have a name?  I don't think anyone ever addressed him by it...

[mrspez07]

This isn't a book I would have picked out myself.
I thought it was very descriptive and beautifully written, though the depth of the story was lacking, though maybe that's the point since it's a "recall" story of a man remembering an event at 7yo. The same way memories often lack detail and background. It is also solely from his perspective, so there is no ability for some of that background.
The parts with Ursula creeped me out and filled me with dread and I dragged on reading that part because I was worried it would go badly. His father' rage and attempt at drowning him were powerfully frightening, not just because of the actions but the lack of precedent or provocation.

[MrsAxilla]

I really didn't find the Ursala scenes scary. She was dealt with pretty easily. Also, the boy was the narrator, so we already knew he'd be ok.

[craftyesq]

I really liked this book, and am starting to think that I may be a fantasy fan. This is my second Gaiman and I have to say that I think I liked American Gods a little better.

He has such a defined writing style. While it may no be my preferred style it's so artfully done and so unique that I think I will keep reading his books. I don't know how to describe his writing style, but I bet I could pick it out if I was reading a bunch of books without seeing the author.

I actually thought he did a really god job of using a child as a narrator without making it a children's book.

[fayeelle]

The whole Ursula thing I just couldn't wrap my head around and therefore couldn't get into. For me, the entire middle part of the book was almost like a chore.  I don't feel like its bad writing or anything, I'm just not a fantasy girl.

I agree w/ christy082 - I want more backstory on the Hempstocks. I want to know about the world they came from, why they ended up here....more, more, more. They were absolutely my favorite which is why the last few chapters flew by for me. I felt like I really got into the book more right as it was ending. I also enjoyed the fact that he continued to return to the farm without any recollection.

If I had to rate the book it would be a 2.5-3 I think. I have mixed feelings about the book. Would I read it again? No. But I didn't hate it either and glad I read it. It was a little more slow going for me in the middle. I also have no desire to read another NG book in the future.

[katrana]

I really liked this book. It left a lot of questions but I thought it left it open to interpretation that way instead of just telling us the answers.

I thought it was very interesting that the narrator kept forgetting his visits back, and that they were bits and pieces from his childhood memories coming back to him. It kind of reminded me of "the silence" from doctor who (but in a good way, that the hempstocks were always there to help him but he would forget about them as soon as he went away). I find that as my son grows into different stages, I am remembering from MY childhood small things that I didn't know I knew/didn't know I forgot. It always gives me a weird feeling of deja vu/remembrance, so that part really resonated with me.

At the end, another part that really stuck with me was the suggestion that the elder Hempstock was all 3 of them at once "It was always only me" (can't remember the exact quote) which I thought was weird and wonderful. It made me REALLY question his memory, his recall, and how events might have actually happened. The "female Hempstocks" always stayed the same age, and really represent the major stages of female life: Child/YA, mother, grandmother/elderly. Was it just different manifestations of the same being the whole time? Is it a God parable? (of the trinity) If so, what does it mean that Lettie was in the ocean? She (God) gave her only son (daughter) to save mankind? (note, I am not actually religious at all, it is just the first thing that came to mind when reading and thinking over the story).

For me, the visit to the woods, Ursula, the scavengers- they were all used to tell the bigger story, that of how the universe is bigger than it might look at first glance, and how we don't even know WHAT we don't know about the universe....

[charlatti]

Jan 31, 2014 14:05:20 GMT -5 katrana said:

 

At the end, another part that really stuck with me was the suggestion that the elder Hempstock was all 3 of them at once "It was always only me" (can't remember the exact quote) which I thought was weird and wonderful. It made me REALLY question his memory, his recall, and how events might have actually happened. The "female Hempstocks" always stayed the same age, and really represent the major stages of female life: Child/YA, mother, grandmother/elderly. Was it just different manifestations of the same being the whole time? Is it a God parable? (of the trinity) If so, what does it mean that Lettie was in the ocean? She (God) gave her only son (daughter) to save mankind? (note, I am not actually religious at all, it is just the first thing that came to mind when reading and thinking over the story).

For me, the visit to the woods, Ursula, the scavengers- they were all used to tell the bigger story, that of how the universe is bigger than it might look at first glance, and how we don't even know WHAT we don't know about the universe....

I forgot about that! That was really interesting to me too. I did some googling and found the Triple Goddess myth ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Goddess_(Neopaganism) ) of maiden/mother/crone in one. I haven't finished reading about it, but it made me happy to know the origin. 
 ETA another link: paganwiccan.about.com/od/wiccanpaganhistory/a/MaidenMotherCrone.htm

I like your thoughts on the universe and how much we don't know. I think NG was definitely trying to make that point.

[aprilsails]

Jan 31, 2014 14:22:43 GMT -5 charlatti said:

Jan 31, 2014 14:05:20 GMT -5 katrana said:

 

At the end, another part that really stuck with me was the suggestion that the elder Hempstock was all 3 of them at once "It was always only me" (can't remember the exact quote) which I thought was weird and wonderful. It made me REALLY question his memory, his recall, and how events might have actually happened. The "female Hempstocks" always stayed the same age, and really represent the major stages of female life: Child/YA, mother, grandmother/elderly. Was it just different manifestations of the same being the whole time? Is it a God parable? (of the trinity) If so, what does it mean that Lettie was in the ocean? She (God) gave her only son (daughter) to save mankind? (note, I am not actually religious at all, it is just the first thing that came to mind when reading and thinking over the story).

For me, the visit to the woods, Ursula, the scavengers- they were all used to tell the bigger story, that of how the universe is bigger than it might look at first glance, and how we don't even know WHAT we don't know about the universe....

I forgot about that! That was really interesting to me too. I did some googling and found the Triple Goddess myth ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Goddess_(Neopaganism) ) of maiden/mother/crone in one. I haven't finished reading about it, but it made me happy to know the origin. 
 ETA another link: paganwiccan.about.com/od/wiccanpaganhistory/a/MaidenMotherCrone.htm

I like your thoughts on the universe and how much we don't know. I think NG was definitely trying to make that point.

DH really picked up on the fact that they were possibly all one and the same.

I really quite enjoyed this book, although I love highly descriptive authors and I found the setting very compelling.  I was sad while reading it though because I knew it was just too short to have complete explanations for all of the things I wanted to know.

I liked the retelling from the point of view of a 7 year old, which I often find annoying.  I felt it was very well done.  The creepy events in the book seem so much scarier when told from this perspective. 

[itsme]

Extremely late here. I just finished the book last night. I agree with everything christy082 said about this book. I didn't really get it nor was I interested enough in trying to figure out what everything meant. I felt I needed to finish the book to see what the hype was about but I struggled to get through it. I didn't care for the magical aspect. I am glad I read the reviews here becaue it has shed some light and now I understand a bit better.

One part I did enjoy was the end. I wondered if the guy was dead though. I know it mentioned he had kids and all that but at the end Old Mrs. Hempstock said the birds had torn out his heart. So was he dead this whole time but living in another realm? That really was the only part I was interested in understanding.

His dad died I believe. Not sure why I came to that conclusion but I thought the beginning of the story alluded to that.

[aurora]

Apr 2, 2014 11:42:38 GMT -5 itsme said:

Extremely late here. I just finished the book last night. I agree with everything christy082 said about this book. I didn't really get it nor was I interested enough in trying to figure out what everything meant. I felt I needed to finish the book to see what the hype was about but I struggled to get through it. I didn't care for the magical aspect. I am glad I read the reviews here becaue it has shed some light and now I understand a bit better.

One part I did enjoy was the end. I wondered if the guy was dead though. I know it mentioned he had kids and all that but at the end Old Mrs. Hempstock said the birds had torn out his heart. So was he dead this whole time but living in another realm? That really was the only part I was interested in understanding.

His dad died I believe. Not sure why I came to that conclusion but I thought the beginning of the story alluded to that.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it that way but I could see how the question would arise.  I took it more as Lettie saved his life but that he paid a price in forgetfulness.  That doesn't really answer your questions, though...it's been 2 months since I finished the book and I've already forgotten all the details that got me to that idea.