Salary in the Netherlands?

[dutchgirl678]

As my screen name suggests, I am a Dutch native but I've been living in the US for the past 13 years. I have an American husband and two kids. There is a job opportunity for me in the Netherlands so we are looking at it and trying to figure out if we should pursue it and live in the Netherlands for a few years. I would love for my kids to be immersed and learn the language and be closer to their Dutch grandparents and uncles and cousin. And my husband is supportive too. I'm not sure how easy it would be for him to find a job, but it could be possible. Or he could start with taking some language courses and volunteering. 

Anyway, my current job is academic research in a computer science related field. I have a pretty good salary right now. The company that wants to hire me in the Netherlands is asking me what my expected salary is, but I have no clue, since when I left the Netherlands I was in academics and I was paid in guilders. I've been looking at some job postings and found a salary calculator. It looks like it varies from 3800-4500 euros gross per month, does that sound like a reasonable amount? I would say it is a senior software engineer kind of position. I am very specialized and this job fits my qualifications exactly. And there is only one other person in the Netherlands at the company that comes close to what I do and they have some people in Sweden, so it's hard to compare with them. Plus, we would have to move over there, so it has to be worth it. They already offered to pay for moving expenses, so that is nice. But we'd want to rent a house, probably just outside of Utrecht (east) and we would have to afford that on my salary alone.

If anyone has any experience or tips, I'm happy to hear it.  

[doctoranda]

The salary you mention sounds about right. You'll be able to rent a house too but I am not sure how everything else will hold up with kids and your husband not working. Do expect everything to be more expensive than you're used too. That was what I had to get used to after having lived in the US for 6 years. I can't help out since I don't have kids and most of my friends don't either. My cousin however has 3 kids and I think she does it on a similar (combined) salary as what you mentioned. Sorry, I'm not very helpful!

[Cheesecake]

That salary range sounds about right. You can always aim a little higher to see how much they're willing to negotiate.
If your H isn't working, you won't have to deal with kinderopvang and you will receive kinderbijslag. We only have one and she's only 16 weeks, so I really have no idea about the cost of older children yet.
Also, insurance will be way cheaper than you're used to, so you might save a bundle there (kids under 18 are free).

Honestly, I'd have a hard time living on that, but we own a house and still have our ols unsold condo and live in Amsterdam. Renting in Utrecht east will definitely be cheaper than our mortgage.

Sent from my Xperia Z, please don't mind typos!

[oneslybookworm]

Not sure on the salary range for that field, but when I worked in the NL, I brought in around 3800 EUR a month. However, there really wouldn't have been a way for me to live on my salary alone, so it was absolutely important that DH work as well.

Is your DH ok with the potential for not working? Not only would it be lost wages, but also lost experience on his part, which might make it harder for him to return to his field once you return stateside?

[dutchgirl678]

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it. My husband would like to work and I would hope that he would find a job in the vicinity as well. I just have no idea how long it would take for him to find a job. And if he could find a job that is in his field. We do have a decent amount of savings and when we sell our house and cars here and a bunch of other stuff we will add to the savings. I can see how living on just one salary is tight.

[dutchgirl678]

After talking with the guy at the Dutch firm and talking to some friends I gave him a range of what I would expect to make in industry and he said that was in line with what he was expecting. He didn't think that would be an obstacle to hiring me, so that's good news! I am talking to a few more people in the company this week but if all goes well I may get a job offer soon! I'm getting kind of excited about it!

[oneslybookworm]

Good luck!!!

[doctoranda]

Awesome!

[Cheesecake]

Cool!

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[dutchgirl678]

Thanks all! After all this talking back and forth I am getting quite excited about working for this company. It will be a big move for us but my husband is very supportive and I think the kids will transition pretty easily. I'm hoping we can move during the summer break so my oldest can start school in the fall there and doesn't have to change mid-year.

[Deleted]

So this might come across as snotty but I am trying to be realistic, not materialistic, OK?  

We lived in Amsterdam for 3 years and would have been hard pressed to live off 4500 a month.

I made 52,000 a year w/o the 30% ruling when we lived there.  In the Netherlands it was very common for companies to pay a 13th month BUT that 52,000 a year included my 13th month so my 52,000 was split over 12 paychecks instead of 13.  After taxes and health insurance, once a month I was paid approximately 4,000.  Our 2 bedroom piece of crap apartment in Amsterdam was 2,000 a month so that would have left us 2,000 a month for all of our other bills.  Our monthly budget was:

1,000 for creche (that was after a subsidy - we used an agency to pay our creche bill and they let us pay only what we owed instead of the actual amount of the care - if you have to pay up front and wait for reimbursement it would have been 1,800 a month)
300 for electricity
100 for cable / internet / phone
600 for groceries

So right there, with just minimum bills, we have run through my pay check.

We arrived in Amsterdam in October of 2008.  It took until June of 2009 for me to get permission to work.  I couldn't even look for a job until that came through.  From June to September I looked for work and stumbled across the a job that I started in October.  Turned out to be the best experience ever BUT I was out of work for an entire year.

Are you a Dutch citizen or a US citizen because if you're a US Citizen and your company can prove you are the only person they can find to do this specific job you can get something called the 30% ruling for taxes but if you're not, and you pay what the Dutchies pay in taxes, you're going to get taxed pretty heavily.

We had a package from my husband's company and it included quite a bit of stuff but these were the most important things:

Flights for all 3 of us back and forth to the US one time per year
Hotel and Meals until we could find an apartment up to 1 month (after that they had to put us up in a corporate apartment until found an apartment)
Real estate agent
The lease would be in THEIR name not ours
They would pay the security deposit on the apartment (that was expensive - because we weren't locals the landlord wanted two months rent)
Lease vehicle (we ended up taking the money they would have paid for the lease car and skipped the car)
They gave us a lump sum of $5,000 (dollars not euros) to move our crap - we could use it however we wanted
They paid all the costs to get paperwork taken care of for work permits and visas
My son wasn't school age but other people in husband's company had school aged kids and the company paid for their kids to go to International or British school

We ended up finding an apartment that worked well for us but it was semi-furnished (meaning walls and appliances but no actual furniture) so we had to buy all the furniture and extras off markplaats.

I'm sure there is more I am forgetting.  It is an amazing experience but seriously, you need to negotiate more than just salary  Good luck!

[dutchgirl678]

I don't see it as snotty at all, it is very helpful. I am a Dutch citizen, my husband is not. I agree with you that I should negotiate for more than salary. I haven't received any official offer yet so that would come with it. They did mention they would pay towards moving costs. Looking at rental houses in the area, it is a bit cheaper than Amsterdam. I have found houses with 3 bedrooms for 1000-1500 euros per month. My son would go to daycare only if DH got a job. My daughter turns 6 in June so she would go to 'groep 2'? I think I can have her be somewhat fluent in Dutch by the fall (I have spoken some Dutch to her over the last few years but need to ramp it up). Ideally I'd love for her to be in a bilingual school but it has to be easy to get to from where we live/work.

I know taxes are high there. But you also get a lot for that in terms of basic health insurance and what not. I think we can build up enough savings to last us for 6+ months with one salary. DH is well educated though and he already sent out some emails to contacts he has in Utrecht, so we'll see if anything comes of that.

[Cheesecake]

Feb 11, 2014 20:39:43 GMT -5 @jb said:

1,000 for creche (that was after a subsidy - we used an agency to pay our creche bill and they let us pay only what we owed instead of the actual amount of the care - if you have to pay up front and wait for reimbursement it would have been 1,800 a month)
300 for electricity
100 for cable / internet / phone
600 for groceries

Not to be weird, but how the hell did you spend 300 a month on electricity in a 2-bedroom place? I pay 220 a month in a 2300sqf house that doesn't have the greatest insulation for green electricity + gas. And we like our house warm! (we just set it so that when we aren't home, we're not heating and it's slightly cooler in the house when we sleep - 21-22 when we're up and about, 18 when we're in bed.)

And before reimbursement we pay about 550 a month for 3x6hrs of daycare per week. Fulltime daycare would come out to 1400 a month before reimbursement. So it pays to look around.

And we have expensive cable/phone & internet(100MBps down) for 45 a month. (slower =cheaper but DH wants the fastest...)

Just trying to give you another perspective as well.

Sent from my Xperia Z, please don't mind typos!

[Deleted]

Healthcare still costs adults money. We paid 220 euros a month and my employer paid part of it so it was like 300 euros a month total?

Cheesecake - our washing machine fit 3 shirts and a pair of underpants. When we were home the damn thing (and the dryer) ran constantly. I blame our electric bill on that

[Cheesecake]

Feb 12, 2014 19:33:14 GMT -5 @jb said:

Healthcare still costs adults money. We paid 220 euros a month and my employer paid part of it so it was like 300 euros a month total?

Cheesecake - our washing machine fit 3 shirts and a pair of underpants. When we were home the damn thing (and the dryer) ran constantly. I blame our electric bill on that

Ahhh, that explains it for sure. I've got a fairly big one (not American size, but 7kilos is still pretty good) and a fairly quick/low energy dryer.


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[Deleted]

washing sheets on our bed was a week long activity

[crimsonandclover]

Does anyone know what the rules are on the trailing spouse working in the NL? I know in Germany the trailing spouse (at least if both are non-EU) can't work - that was Pandi's problem. I, on the other hand, *can* work because my DH is German. I'd just double check on that before you plan/hope on him finding a job. I would think it would be ok since you're Dutch, but there are quite a lot of immigration rules in the EU states that make absolutely no sense to me.
doctoranda, maybe you can answer that question.

[Cheesecake]

I know bookworm was a trailing spouse, and she worked.
When you're here legally, I think it's pretty easy to get a work permit, especially when 1 of the spouses is Dutch.

Sent from my Xperia Z, please don't mind typos!

[oneslybookworm]

I was a "trailing spouse" and worked. However, my work permit was supposed to be automatic, and took 8 months. So...you'll have that. Don't anticipate anything going quickly.

[dutchgirl678]

A small update. The company is still interested in hiring me and they are flying me to their headquarters in Sweden this month to meet in person and extend a job offer. From our discussions it seems like the salary will be over 5000 gross per month. I am personally hoping for 6000 but we'll see if that is in their budget. At least with 6000 gross, that will be about 3600 net, we should be able to live on that for a while.

But my husband also had some good news. He emailed some people he knows in the Netherlands and may be able to make some new contacts in his field, so maybe it won't be too hard for him to get a job there. That would be our ideal. He is a transportation engineer and that skill is useful anywhere.

[travelingturtle]

Feb 17, 2014 1:55:41 GMT -5 crimsonandclover said:

Does anyone know what the rules are on the trailing spouse working in the NL? I know in Germany the trailing spouse (at least if both are non-EU) can't work - that was Pandi's problem. I, on the other hand, *can* work because my DH is German. I'd just double check on that before you plan/hope on him finding a job. I would think it would be ok since you're Dutch, but there are quite a lot of immigration rules in the EU states that make absolutely no sense to me.
doctoranda, maybe you can answer that question.

We're lucky because where we are in Germany, even though I am a trailing spouse, the city would give me permission to work if I secured a job. I've talked to several people about it at our immigration office. It may be because we're on a local contract, not sure. I think when Pandi first moved here they weren't on a local contract... or it could be a case of just being different from city to city. But, I should look into it at some point because we're interested in possibly moving to where she lives after here. 

[dutchgirl678]

Update: I got a job offer, but they are offering 5300 euros a month. I have some time to talk it over with my husband but I am really unsure right now on whether that will be enough to live on for a while until he finds a job.