Guys I feel like pixy here! If we are going to discuss an article can people actually read it?
The journalist put a TON of work into it, including interviewing many people all over the world, including friends of the captain, to put together this piece.
And plus there are maps!! Maps!!
It is really well done and informative. Long, but worth it.
I tried reading the article, but couldnāt get through it in the time I had! Stupid work getting in the way of my current events. I will finish tonight.
The article was really long (like all Atlantic articles, I guess) but well done.
I am glad it sounds like the passengers died peacefully. It was an overnight flight, I hope many of them were sleeping and weren't even aware of something going wrong.
It is crazy to me that this could have been a suicide. I guess it happens, but why the hell end the lives of so many passengers along with yourself? That's nice that you want to die flying an airplane, but those people probably wanted to live. He really couldn't think of any other way to do this without harming everyone else? This makes me angry. It's also pretty darned scary. I know we can literally die anytime, anywhere, but an airplane is such a captive and controlled environment. The idea that the pilot of my plane could just decide that he wanted me to die is really pretty terrifying, even if the chances of that are extremely low.
Post by ChillyMcFreeze on Jun 17, 2019 14:50:16 GMT -5
Great read! This story haunts me so much because I was IN THE AIR on my way home from China when it all happened. I overheard two flight attendants talking about it and asked them what was going on. (In fact, I probably posted that in this very thread all those years ago!)
The Malaysian government sounds shady as hell. As the article says, it's dozens of people's screw ups that make it so we have zero definitive information. Nothing probably could have prevented this once it was in motion, but we could have had so many more answers if everyone were doing their jobs properly.
ok, I have had more time to think on this a bit and I just keep visualizing it all and feeling so...depressed. Sad. Terrified.
I picture the passengers immediately being terrified with the "g-force like speed" that they apparently had to go through, as well as the dropping of the (apparently useless) oxygen masks. That they panicked and tried to get their phones, etc, but by the time anyone could, they were unconscious. Even typing that makes me cry and feel anxious. I grasp at the idea that they were not alive when the plane hit the water hours later, but I cannot help but think they were terrified when they started to rapidly ascend out of nowhere.
I then picture this peace and quiet with the captain sitting in the cockpit for hours, just occasional alarms going off. No other sounds. And I get so angry and so sad just thinking of what was out in the cabin behind him.
I am frustrated that this was able to happen, that the govt there does not seem to be doing much on this anymore. I am so sad for those that lost their lives. And I am terrified that this could happen to me or a loved one.
From the beginning of the article, the primary question I had was why did the Malaysian government refuse to cooperate and provide information they knew.
āIt became clear that the primary objective of the Malaysians was to make the subject just go away. From the start there was this instinctive bias against being open and transparent, not because they were hiding some deep, dark secret, but because they did not know where the truth really lay, and they were afraid that something might come out that would be embarrassing. Were they covering up? Yes. They were covering up for the unknown.ā
This is the answer, and yet, it is so unsatisfying to me. They could have made all the difference in helping to bring peace and closure to those families and they didn't because they were hiding something they weren't even sure was there? That's so fucked up.
ok, I have had more time to think on this a bit and I just keep visualizing it all and feeling so...depressed. Sad. Terrified.
I picture the passengers immediately being terrified with the "g-force like speed" that they apparently had to go through, as well as the dropping of the (apparently useless) oxygen masks. That they panicked and tried to get their phones, etc, but by the time anyone could, they were unconscious. Even typing that makes me cry and feel anxious. I grasp at the idea that they were not alive when the plane hit the water hours later, but I cannot help but think they were terrified when they started to rapidly ascend out of nowhere.
I then picture this peace and quiet with the captain sitting in the cockpit for hours, just occasional alarms going off. No other sounds. And I get so angry and so sad just thinking of what was out in the cabin behind him.
I am frustrated that this was able to happen, that the govt there does not seem to be doing much on this anymore. I am so sad for those that lost their lives. And I am terrified that this could happen to me or a loved one.
Maybe you read this and what you're saying is still the image that is conjured up for you (which is fine and legitimate), but he does detail out that the cabin likely was depressurized shortly into the flight and that everyone on board died during that time. It seems unlikely that they were all alive when he crashed it into the ocean. I tend to agree with this assessment mostly because I think there would be some sort of evidence if there was an entire cabin full of people alive and well, freaking out about what was going on.
ok, I have had more time to think on this a bit and I just keep visualizing it all and feeling so...depressed. Sad. Terrified.
I picture the passengers immediately being terrified with the "g-force like speed" that they apparently had to go through, as well as the dropping of the (apparently useless) oxygen masks. That they panicked and tried to get their phones, etc, but by the time anyone could, they were unconscious. Even typing that makes me cry and feel anxious. I grasp at the idea that they were not alive when the plane hit the water hours later, but I cannot help but think they were terrified when they started to rapidly ascend out of nowhere.
I then picture this peace and quiet with the captain sitting in the cockpit for hours, just occasional alarms going off. No other sounds. And I get so angry and so sad just thinking of what was out in the cabin behind him.
I am frustrated that this was able to happen, that the govt there does not seem to be doing much on this anymore. I am so sad for those that lost their lives. And I am terrified that this could happen to me or a loved one.
Maybe you read this and what you're saying is still the image that is conjured up for you (which is fine and legitimate), but he does detail out that the cabin likely was depressurized shortly into the flight and that everyone on board died during that time. It seems unlikely that they were all alive when he crashed it into the ocean. I tend to agree with this assessment mostly because I think there would be some sort of evidence if there was an entire cabin full of people alive and well, freaking out about what was going on.
sorry, I was not clear. I know they were not alive when they hit the ocean and that it was moments after the cabin was depressurized. But for the moments that it did depressurize I imagine there was fear.
Maybe you read this and what you're saying is still the image that is conjured up for you (which is fine and legitimate), but he does detail out that the cabin likely was depressurized shortly into the flight and that everyone on board died during that time. It seems unlikely that they were all alive when he crashed it into the ocean. I tend to agree with this assessment mostly because I think there would be some sort of evidence if there was an entire cabin full of people alive and well, freaking out about what was going on.
sorry, I was not clear. I know they were not alive when they hit the ocean and that it was moments after the cabin was depressurized. But for the moments that it did depressurize I imagine there was fear.
Gotcha, yes. I have to imagine I would panic if the air masks dropped, so even if it didnāt last long and they didnāt realize they were losing consciousness, itās still horrible to think about.
Post by Velar Fricative on Jun 17, 2019 17:21:28 GMT -5
This is all super plausible and frustrating and tragic, but Iām hung up on the ābreadcrumbsā from the captain. It seems like a reach to believe that the simulation for this flight was his version of a suicide note. But, this entire planeās fate seems like a reach and it happened, so.
The death of the passengers was described as peaceful.
Really people should just spend the time reading the article. Itās a really well done piece on the theories and investigation and governmental incompetence. Plus random American dude who ingratiated himself with victim families and found most of the debris including the first piece.
For those of us that have been following this for 5 years, none is new information. Why am I supposed to give credence to this guy? There have been tons of articles by more experienced pilots and NTSB, etc. That have all given similar theories. That article isn't anything new now that I had the time to read it.
The death of the passengers was described as peaceful.
Really people should just spend the time reading the article. Itās a really well done piece on the theories and investigation and governmental incompetence. Plus random American dude who ingratiated himself with victim families and found most of the debris including the first piece.
For those of us that have been following this for 5 years, none is new information. Why am I supposed to give credence to this guy? There have been tons of articles by more experienced pilots and NTSB, etc. That have all given similar theories. That article isn't anything new now that I had the time to read it.
Why are you supposed to give a journalist at the Atlantic credence who aggregated all the available info, including data and extensive interviews and put it one piece? I donāt think I can answer that. I think thatās a personal call.
This is all super plausible and frustrating and tragic, but Iām hung up on the ābreadcrumbsā from the captain. It seems like a reach to believe that the simulation for this flight was his version of a suicide note. But, this entire planeās fate seems like a reach and it happened, so.
Right. That same pilot had that simulator for years with over 600 different routes and such.
This article is from Jeff Wise whom I respect immensely and describes the data found.
For those of us that have been following this for 5 years, none is new information. Why am I supposed to give credence to this guy? There have been tons of articles by more experienced pilots and NTSB, etc. That have all given similar theories. That article isn't anything new now that I had the time to read it.
Why are you supposed to give a journalist at the Atlantic credence who aggregated all the available info, including data and extensive interviews and put it one piece? I donāt think I can answer that. I think thatās a personal call.
Because he isn't the first one to write these articles and because he isn't a pilot and seems to know little about true navigation. Also because Jeff Wise and others analyzed his simulator....
He didn't do all this investigation on his own, it was already stated and completed. He doesn't get credit for putting bits of information together, rearranging it and posting it, which is all he did
Why are you supposed to give a journalist at the Atlantic credence who aggregated all the available info, including data and extensive interviews and put it one piece? I donāt think I can answer that. I think thatās a personal call.
Because he isn't the first one to write these articles and because he isn't a pilot and seems to know little about true navigation. Also because Jeff Wise and others analyzed his simulator....
He didn't do all this investigation on his own, it was already stated and completed. He doesn't get credit for putting bits of information together, rearranging it and posting it, which is all he did
Post by Velar Fricative on Jun 17, 2019 18:30:08 GMT -5
Jeff Wise has made some convincing arguments about stuff before but I think itās weird heās dismissive of the flight sim/suicide theory. And even if the Atlantic article is just āputting stuff together,ā it put stuff together pretty convincingly and I had never seen such thorough details before.
Why are you supposed to give a journalist at the Atlantic credence who aggregated all the available info, including data and extensive interviews and put it one piece? I donāt think I can answer that. I think thatās a personal call.
Because he isn't the first one to write these articles and because he isn't a pilot and seems to know little about true navigation. Also because Jeff Wise and others analyzed his simulator....
He didn't do all this investigation on his own, it was already stated and completed. He doesn't get credit for putting bits of information together, rearranging it and posting it, which is all he did
Actually, the author of the Atlantic piece is a professional pilot. His bio is pretty interesting.
Because he isn't the first one to write these articles and because he isn't a pilot and seems to know little about true navigation. Also because Jeff Wise and others analyzed his simulator....
He didn't do all this investigation on his own, it was already stated and completed. He doesn't get credit for putting bits of information together, rearranging it and posting it, which is all he did
Actually, the author of the Atlantic piece is a professional pilot. His bio is pretty interesting.
āWilliam Langewiesche, a former national correspondent for The Atlantic and a professional pilot, has written about subjects including aviation, national security, and North Africa.ā
After reading the article, I see the flight simulation not as a suicide note, but as preparatory steps and rehearsal. People do practice the way they are planning to kill themselves, it can be part of getting over that inherent need for self-protection. Obviously not everyone does this, but that's how it came across to me.
It is sad and scary. I appreciate this article compiling the work done by others and explaining it so clearly.
Because he isn't the first one to write these articles and because he isn't a pilot and seems to know little about true navigation. Also because Jeff Wise and others analyzed his simulator....
He didn't do all this investigation on his own, it was already stated and completed. He doesn't get credit for putting bits of information together, rearranging it and posting it, which is all he did
Actually, the author of the Atlantic piece is a professional pilot. His bio is pretty interesting.
"But to their chagrin, the evidence was slim. Zaharie had left no note. His family and friends had noticed no sign of mental disturbance. There was no evidence of political or religious extremism or of marital discord. He was under no financial pressure. He just didnāt fit the profile of someone who would kill hundreds of innocent people and take his own life in the process."
Most people who die by suicide don't leave a note. The family and close friends of most people who die by suicide say they appeared mentally and emotionally fine beforehand. There was evidence of marital discord, as shared by his best friend in the Atlantic piece.
So I don't give Jeff Wise a lot of credibility because his whole thesis is wrong.