Do you not celebrate but rest of family does?

[Odonata]

I'm hoping this is a good place to post this question.

H and I are atheist but were both raised in Roman Catholic families.  Mine was pretty easy going with it - actually, I say that I was "raised Italian" because neither of my parents are strongly religious and so going to church and CCD was just something we did because we "had to".  Once I made my confirmation I was allowed to decide my own religious path (which is TOTALLY contradictory, I know).  My parents no longer attend church and God/Jesus was never mentioned in my house growing up outside of Sundays and CCD.

H's parents are "fire and brimstone" Catholics and are deeply upset about him not being part of the church.  They are very rude and insulting of the two of us.  Our marriage was difficult with them b/c it wasn't a religious ceremony.  They threatened not to come (we said fine - they came).  Mostly, they are controlling individuals ( I could go on and on) who get very upset when their adult children do not do things their way so the "not Catholic" part of our lives is just another thing they want to control and are frustrated they cannot.  At any rate, we've learned how to cope with their craziness and not let it affect us.

So we go over to both families for the religious holidays as we are invited.  I enjoy seeing the whole family together (at least my side!) and so it's a nice time, regardless of my practice.  However, we are expecting our first child, which of course, will not be raised Catholic and will not be waking up to an Easter Basket on Easter Sunday.  H and I are 100% OK with just saying "we don't celebrate that holiday."  It is my intention to celebrate certain key points in the year like the solstice and equinox (I'm more of a Pantheist) but not in any spiritual way.  I intend to celebrate them as times of change and since they do follow the Catholic holiday calender pretty well, my child will experience a gift exchange during Yule (Dec. 21st) and we will dye eggs and have flowers and candy for Ostara (first day of spring, usually right around Easter).  After all, many of the pagan foods, decor, and events were adopted by Christians.  So our kid won't necessarily be "missing out" on what their cousins are celebrating.  Also, we are the only in our families who do not celebrate the Christian holidays.

So - I guess I'm just looking for advice on how to handle the inevitable nonsense that will come with my ILs both before and after the baby comes.  Anyone deal with this?  

[panicked]

Keep repeating "this is the way we have decided to raise our child. The matter is not up for discussion. If you cannot respect that, we will leave."

[yoteach]

My husband and I were both raised in Christian homes and all of our siblings continue to raise their children in that faith. We are the only ones that don't practice any kind of religion. What we do is allow grandparents/aunts/uncles to share their faith with our kids and then when we are home alone, we will (as they grow older) have private conversations about them deciding what they'd like to follow/believe. We stay respectful of our families' beliefs and participate in small ways in the holidays. One of my husband's brothers is bending over backwards trying to "save" our family and that gets a little contentious, but we just follow the line that our kids will be able to make the decisions they want about religion when they are old enough.

[Deleted]

I say "you raised your kids in the way you thought was best. We are doing the same."

The grandparents know if they don't respect us and our parenting, they won't be welcome around the kids.

[Odonata]

Apr 20, 2014 10:17:41 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

I say "you raised your kids in the way you thought was best. We are doing the same."

The grandparents know if they don't respect us and our parenting, they won't be welcome around the kids.

We are trying to drive that point home with my ILs. They are the type to say something to the kids and make them feel bad. They feel they have some rights to how their grandkids are raised. My MIL said once "well my grandchild will know/do XYZ" and I responded with "my child is more important than your grandchild" She also feels she has say in our lives as well. Silly MIL.

[Birdie]

We haven't really had to deal with it yet, but we're both waiting for the baptism conversation with his parents. They'll accept whatever we decide, I'm just anticipating them asking soon when it will be.

Other than that, we still celebrate major Christian holidays like Christmas and Easter. We just don't celebrate the religious portion of them. I don't see it being a problem with our families.

[redheadbaker]

Apr 20, 2014 10:48:45 GMT -5 Odonata said:

Apr 20, 2014 10:17:41 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

I say "you raised your kids in the way you thought was best. We are doing the same."

The grandparents know if they don't respect us and our parenting, they won't be welcome around the kids.

We are trying to drive that point home with my ILs. They are the type to say something to the kids and make them feel bad. They feel they have some rights to how their grandkids are raised. My MIL said once "well my grandchild will know/do XYZ" and I responded with "my child is more important than your grandchild" She also feels she has say in our lives as well. Silly MIL.

It sounds like you need to move beyond driving your point home with words and start doing it with your actions. If they start insulting you around your kids, leave. If they still continue, stop visiting them altogether.

[VillainV]

I agree that it's your choice how you raise your kids. Having said that, I don't really think Easter baskets have anything much to do with the religious part of the holiday. I mean, candy, eggs, and toys aren't exactly Christian. So I don't think Easter baskets would be the hill I would die on. Neither H not I are Catholic (both come from catholic families) but we will do Easter baskets and some other secular traditions associated with Easter. As long as your ILs don't push religious aspects of the holiday.

Having said that, is there a specific reason you don't want them exposed to Christianity? If you intend to give them a choice of what/how to worship when they are older, the. I don't see the harm in a little bit of exposure. When they get older you can use that to explain that some people believe some things and some believe other things, but that you want them to be tolerant of different belief systems. Just a thought....

[ilikedonuts]

Apr 20, 2014 10:48:45 GMT -5 Odonata said:

Apr 20, 2014 10:17:41 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

I say "you raised your kids in the way you thought was best. We are doing the same."

The grandparents know if they don't respect us and our parenting, they won't be welcome around the kids.

We are trying to drive that point home with my ILs. They are the type to say something to the kids and make them feel bad. They feel they have some rights to how their grandkids are raised. My MIL said once "well my grandchild will know/do XYZ" and I responded with "my child is more important than your grandchild" She also feels she has say in our lives as well. Silly MIL.

Then you tell them that the very second that say anything to your child that makes them feel bad or the second they dont' respect your parenting, they will not be seeing you guys. Then when they do it (because you know they will), you immediately leave. Don't give them any power. If they disrepect you, then you don't have anything to do with them. Just because they are faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamily doesn't mean shit.

[Odonata]

Apr 20, 2014 11:05:01 GMT -5 VillainV said:

I agree that it's your choice how you raise your kids. Having said that, I don't really think Easter baskets have anything much to do with the religious part of the holiday. I mean, candy, eggs, and toys aren't exactly Christian. So I don't think Easter baskets would be the hill I would die on. Neither H not I are Catholic (both come from catholic families) but we will do Easter baskets and some other secular traditions associated with Easter. As long as your ILs don't push religious aspects of the holiday.

Having said that, is there a specific reason you don't want them exposed to Christianity? If you intend to give them a choice of what/how to worship when they are older, the. I don't see the harm in a little bit of exposure. When they get older you can use that to explain that some people believe some things and some believe other things, but that you want them to be tolerant of different belief systems. Just a thought....

First, we don't celebrate the holidays at all. It makes no sense to get gifts or candy for some random day. No one in the family get gifts for Jewish holidays just because. We either celebrate our not.

But the issue is not Easter baskets. My kid will be exposed to Christianity because we are invited to dinner with our families. I have no problem with the exposure at all. But my in laws will make a big deal about how we celebrate at home. And that I have issue with.

We will have our personal family celebrations but it will be around our personal traditions.

[Odonata]

Oh and I do want to add that I don't mind if anyone gives my kid some gifts for Christmas or Easter. We intend to it that some people celebrate this holiday called christmas/Easter. We have Jewish friends and have been invited over for passover seder and other celebrations. So the goal is to teach religious tolerance. But I'm not sure how to do that when half the family won't be tolerant to us.

[VillainV]

Odonata, I completely understand not wanting your ILs to disrespect your choices. I'm totally on board with that. But if you're okay with someone giving your kid a Christmas present, I don't understand why you wouldn't allow them to give him/her a small Easter basket, even if your family doesn't celebrate?

Eta:just re-read your post above. I wasn't suggesting YOU give Easter baskets just because of your ILs, just that you allow them to give Easter baskets if they want, which I see you're okay with :-)

[sillygoosegirl]

I think it's easier to just celebrate the Winter Solstice on December 25th and the Spring cross-quarter on Easter. You've got the day off work (probably). Everyone else is celebrating their holidays. The traditions are not coincidentally mostly the same.

[kermit]

We aren't religious at all but SO's family and to a lesser extent my family are. Our kid won't be going to church services but I don't see the harm in Easter baskets and the like. We agreed to baptism because it seems to be extremely important to SO's parents and neither of us think it makes any difference, so we don't really care. It's not something the baby will remember. They will have to make all the arrangements for it though.

[Odonata]

Yeah, sorry, maybe I wasn't clear with my OP, I was just typing as it came to me.

My "plan" for my child is to not hide religion but we won't be raising it in any as we are atheist. So he/she will know mommy and daddy don't believe in God or celebrate any of the religious holidays, but we will celebrate yearly milestones as a family as the seasons change (Yule, Ostara are the main ones that are near Christmas and Easter, respectfully.) I also don't want to do "secular" Christmas and Easter because I don't believe there is such a thing. That, in my mind, just changes the day from a meaningful event to a day to just get stuff, which I am against teaching. I am a minimalist as well and would like to prevent the notion that getting stuff is good and would rather focus on the family instead.

I fully intend to explain Christianity and Judiasm to my children and let them explore other religions as well. If they want to go to church with Grandpa, that is fine. My thinking of "celebrating" with the families is that we are being invited over by them to share in the celebration of their holiday and it is OK to accepts gifts and candy. Just like how I had a Yule party this year because it was on a Saturday. To me, I was celebrating the longest night of the year and the upcoming spring, everyone else was sharing warm times with family and friends. The same is true when we visit those who invite us for their religious holidays.

When my child is older, I intend to celebrate the equinoxes and solstices since they are important days for me, personally. I fully intend my child to make something (like a craft) for his/her grandparents to share that day as well. However, I know it'll be scoffed at by my IL's. And even before I became pregnant there were questions (asked rudely) about what we were going to do for these holidays and SHOCK that we wouldn't be providing our own Easter Bunny or Santa Clause myths. So holidays these days have always been a source of slight anxiety as I'm just TIRED of the topic being brought up. Things like "would you like to say grace?" have been asked of us from FIL, who also says things to H's young cousins about how "Odonata and H are going to go to hell because they have a problem with Jesus." I'm already sure that if that is EVER said to my child that will be the end of visits with grandpa.

I know I have to hold my ground, but when does it end? Don't they get that we aren't going to do what they want? It really spoils the "spending time with family" feeling that I try to focus on when I'm there. It's making me a bitter atheist, which I never was.

[wildfloweragain]

H's family has backed off so I don't push the issue in our family. Our kids ARE raised Catholic but I celebrate pagan holidays, so they get both. For example, we did 2 batches/styles of eggs - one for Ostara and one for Easter. I guess our issue is different because we are not pushing it right now and you are at the point where you need to. My MIL thinks witches=satanism and would flip if I had a conversation with her about being pagan. (She also thinks french people are evil, so I'm not going to change her mind.) She thinks we aren't very good Catholics and she knows we celebrate nature holidays as well. For her, I can say that I am celebrating the first day of spring and she continues on.

At some point something bad enough happens in a family that people realize that judging each other is just not that high on the list of priorities. In our case it was a death.

I recommend more space and not letting her make you feel badly.

[Odonata]

Apr 20, 2014 13:16:04 GMT -5 wildfloweragain said:

H's family has backed off so I don't push the issue in our family. Our kids ARE raised Catholic but I celebrate pagan holidays, so they get both. For example, we did 2 batches/styles of eggs - one for Ostara and one for Easter. I guess our issue is different because we are not pushing it right now and you are at the point where you need to. My MIL thinks witches=satanism and would flip if I had a conversation with her about being pagan. (She also thinks french people are evil, so I'm not going to change her mind.) She thinks we aren't very good Catholics and she knows we celebrate nature holidays as well. For her, I can say that I am celebrating the first day of spring and she continues on.

At some point something bad enough happens in a family that people realize that judging each other is just not that high on the list of priorities. In our case it was a death.

I recommend more space and not letting her make you feel badly.

Thanks - we've tried more space because of constant pushing on other aspects of our lives (not religion based) from them.  They are so invasive it is crazy.  But then we were summoned over there one day ( I thought they were going to tell us one of them had cancer or something) so they could sit us down and tell us how we are bad children and don't behave as family because we do not stop by unannounced as often as they thought we should.  I got up, said they were both bat shit crazy, and sat in my car.  There was no discussion after that.  I would hate to one day have to cut them out.

I'm glad to see another Pagan on the board.  I sometimes feel so lost when everyone around me says "I don't see why it's such a big deal, just celebrate the holidays and take the religion out of it".  For some people, it is, and I don't see their logic, either.  And not believing in a God doesn't mean you aren't spiritual and have your own set of sacred days either.  

[niq]

We are trying to raise V in a very ecumenical way. One of the books my godmother sent is called "An Easter Prayer" and the bunnies and baby chicks pray to God and stuff. When the time comes I think we'll try to explain that some people believe this and some people believe that and we're all just trying to make sense of the world.

But that's probably a ways off.

msniq's relatives mostly use it as an excuse to get the family together. I guess MIL wishes her family went to church more than zero, but she doesn't really make a fuss about it.

Episcopalianism is pretty non-judgy already, so we haven't had any issues. We'd have more if we lived closer to my Baptist & Southern Contemporary extended family, but nothing unbearable.

[Deleted]

We aren't religious, but we still celebrate the holidays somewhat because I agree with others that an Easter basket and Christmas presents have nothing to do with Jesus.

It's definitely a struggle to find some type of balance, and we also get a bit of push-back from my inlaws (who gave me the book Proof of Heaven for Christmas, lol).

I think being polite but firm is the best way to go. Good luck!