This is weird, right? ("Mrs." in work correspondence)

[Susie]

The attorney that I'm dealing with on the other side of an ongoing matter, went to law school with Calvin and I, and actually worked with me around the time that I got married.  I just got a letter in the matter from him today addressed to:

--

Mrs. Derkins:

Blah blah blah.

Sincerely,

Law School Classmate, Esq.

--

And the "Mrs." really irked me, more than I expected it to.  I never use "Mrs. Derkins," either socially or professionally.  I use my married last name, but with Ms.  I bristle at the idea that marital status has any place in what I am called professionally.  In my imagination it feels almost ... I don't know, I'm searching for the right adjective.  Patronizing?  

Obviously I will get over it, but use of Mrs. in this context, even with him knowing Calvin and I is weird, isn't it?

[noodleoo]

Is this unusual in the law field? I'm guessing since he knows you and your H personally and knew you when you got married, he's making the common (if not appropriate) assumption that you go by Mrs. HLastname. I kept my name and also go by Ms. and many people assume I'm Mrs. Hlastname. I honestly don't care. If it is someone I'll see again, I just correct them. If it a random person (eg. hotel check in person) I just let it go.

I guess I wouldn't go to the point of being offended unless he continues to do it well past multiple corrections.

[arch01]

I'd assume that he's trying to be professional even though he knows you-and also knows you're married, so he used. Mrs.

This wouldn't bother me in the least bit.

[vtdiamond]

This reminds me of "The Good Wife" I always think it's kind of funny that they call her Mrs. Florick all the time.

[heyrebekah]

I think that is pretty weird. Especially since it sounds like he is the same age. I wouldn't be offended, but it is dated and not something you really see in professional communications.

[emilyinchile]

Sorry, I don't think it's weird if your name is Susie Derkins that he would assume it's Mrs. Derkins (vs. Susie Maiden/Ms. Maiden). That said, I'm not a lawyer and don't know if Ms. is industry standard and/or if it's just weird for him to address this with title and last name rather than something else.

[ddi741]

If I know someone is married I always use Mrs.

[L]

Being called "Mrs." in a professional context is probably my biggest pet peeve. Ms. is a professional designation for a woman; Mrs. is a social form of address that is not appropriate in the workplace.

[emilyinchile]

Apr 22, 2014 12:15:30 GMT -5 heyrebekah said:

I think that is pretty weird. Especially since it sounds like he is the same age. I wouldn't be offended, but it is dated and not something you really see in professional communications.

Do you mean that it's more modern to always use Ms. for women? (I feel like that question somehow comes across as having a subtext, but it doesn't, I'm really just clarifying because that's not something I've heard!)

ETA: L posted as I was typing. I had no idea that Mrs. is considered inappropriate for the workplace. Granted, I don't work in the US, so I'm not totally up on things, but I've never heard friends talk about it or seen it anywhere. Good to know! But I still don't fault this guy for not knowing.

[mbcdefg]

If he knows you're married and you use your H's name, then I don't see why it's weird. It's not an incorrect term.

But if you prefer to be addressed as Ms., then that's your right. Tell him so.

[daydreamer]

That would annoy me too. I would wonder his motive for straying from the default title. It's very unprofessional of him.

[Susie]

Apr 22, 2014 12:20:03 GMT -5 L said:

Being called "Mrs." in a professional context is probably my biggest pet peeve. Ms. is a professional designation for a woman; Mrs. is a social form of address that is not appropriate in the workplace.

That's the distinction I was drawing - social vs. professional.

If I send a letter in an ongoing adversarial matter and sign it Susie M. Derkins, it's not buddy-buddy (we were never friends, just colleagues).  Copies are going to all of our respective clients, other parties, etc.  Whether I'm Miss or Mrs. is irrelevant, and I just don't feel like that distinction has a place in the matter (regardless of what last name I use).  

I'm not going to correct him over it; it isn't worth it, and since he knows us both professionally I don't want him to get the wrong idea that we are separated or something.  

It just annoys me, in a similar vein to being annoyed by emails and letters from foreign counterparts who assume I must be "Mr. Derkins." 

[Deleted]

I HATE that there are 3 designations for women and 1 for men. Hate hate hate hate. I don't see how a women's marital status has any relevance in a professional setting (well really ever). I only use Mrs. If I'm addressing formal envelopes Mr. and Mrs. . . ., which means I've done it once ( for our wedding ) in recent memory.

[les]

I completely understand your irritation with the archaic nature of formal addresses in general, but I would not hold it against him for following the traditional etiquette guidelines.

[imojoebunny]

Uhm... You may not like it, but it is the standard address for a married female person. I disagree that it isn't appropriate in work places. If you don't know, then Ms. is the default, but he knows, so the correct way to address is Mrs. When I worked, that level of formality was seldom used, but in cases where it is used there is nothing wrong with using it correctly given the information you have.

[Deleted]

Being from the Midwest, I use first names for everything. But I don't think much about Mrs vs Ms when people actually know me.

[L]

Apr 22, 2014 12:43:06 GMT -5 kooshball said:

Apr 22, 2014 12:20:03 GMT -5 L said:

Being called "Mrs." in a professional context is probably my biggest pet peeve. Ms. is a professional designation for a woman; Mrs. is a social form of address that is not appropriate in the workplace.

Not appropriate? I can get that it might not be formal but not appropriate seems like a stretch. 

A woman's marital status is not relevant at work and yes (unless you know for sure that it is the woman's preference) it is inappropriate to use a title that designates marital status when addressing a woman in a professional context.  "Ms." is the appropriate form of address in business correspondence.

www.emilypost.com/forms-of-address/titles/96-guide-to-addressing-correspondence

[Deleted]

I can never get worked up about what title people give me. As long as they don't call me a Mr. it's okay. And even then I would probably only mention it if I had reason to believe they actually thought I was a dude.

[jillboston]

It would really really piss me off. It is Ms. in a professional setting.

edit: actually, as you are an attorney it should be Susie Derkins, Esq. I would be offended just on that basis and in the salutation it should say Dear Attorney Derkins.

[rbp]

ITA that "Mrs." is inappropriate in the workplace, unless that's what you call yourself, but I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that he means anything by it. People are taught that Miss is for unmarried women and Mrs. is for married women, you're a married woman, so you're Mrs. Derkins! I agree that it's patronizing, but I don't know that a male colleague would necessarily appreciate this. (Male privilege and all that.)

ETA: Ditto L!

[nomad100]

Apr 22, 2014 12:47:52 GMT -5 imojoebunny said:

Uhm... You may not like it, but it is the standard address for a married female person. I disagree that it isn't appropriate in work places. If you don't know, then Ms. is the default, but he knows, so the correct way to address is Mrs. When I worked, that level of formality was seldom used, but in cases where it is used there is nothing wrong with using it correctly given the information you have.

In social situations Mrs. may be the standard address but it isn't the default in professional situations.  Ms. is always the default unless you have been told specifically to use Mrs.  

For example, in the CRM I manage for work we have only 185 women with the Mrs. designation and more than 5000 with Ms. designation. That should tell you something about which is more prevalent in the work place.  

And personally, I would be more than a little peeved if someone addressed something to me professionally as Mrs. Nomad just because they knew I was married.  Mainly because I kept my maiden name and Mrs. Nomad would be my mother.  I am Ms. Nomad. 

[ebeth]

if I learned anything from the hit CBS series 'The Good Wife' it's that attorneys refer to each other as Mrs/Mr.

I'm all in favor of adopting the universal Ms. though. our outlook used to have a feature where your preferred title was displayed along with your name. that was nice.

basically, I don't think that this dude was trying to offend and I don't think the universal 'Ms' is getting much press.

[Deleted]

In my 9 years of practice, I've never been called Mrs. professionally. I never see it or use it when corresponding with attorneys.

[kadams767]

Apr 22, 2014 12:49:49 GMT -5 Stan said:

Apr 22, 2014 12:20:03 GMT -5 L said:

Being called "Mrs." in a professional context is probably my biggest pet peeve. Ms. is a professional designation for a woman; Mrs. is a social form of address that is not appropriate in the workplace.

Plus, he signed off as his name, ESQ. as opposed to Mr. Last Name.

Well, to be fair, if this guy signed his own letter and gave himself the "Esq." designation, he obviously has no idea about proper etiquette. So if I were in Susie's shoes, I would probably laugh it off and secretly not-so-secretly think he was a dink.

[jillboston]

Apr 22, 2014 13:05:05 GMT -5 ebeth said:

if I learned anything from the hit CBS series 'The Good Wife' it's that attorneys refer to each other as Mrs/Mr.

I'm all in favor of adopting the universal Ms. though. our outlook used to have a feature where your preferred title was displayed along with your name. that was nice.

basically, I don't think that this dude was trying to offend and I don't think the universal 'Ms' is getting much press.

I've never heard or seen a female attorney addressed as Mrs. It is Ms. or more appropriately counselor or Attorney Derkins in a court setting.

[livinitup]

I dare you to use the long form, instead of the abbreviation on your next letter:

Mister John Jones, Esq.

[jillboston]

Apr 22, 2014 13:06:02 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

In my 9 years of practice, I've never been called Mrs. professionally. I never see it or use it when corresponding with attorneys.

As I said above, me neither and it has been 23 years for me.

[emilyinchile]

Apr 22, 2014 13:02:26 GMT -5 nomad100 said:

And personally, I would be more than a little peeved if someone addressed something to me professionally as Mrs. Nomad just because they knew I was married.  Mainly because I kept my maiden name and Mrs. Nomad would be my mother.  I am Ms. Nomad. 

Ok, but that is not Susie's situation. Here I would totally agree with your annoyance - it's not your name, and people shouldn't presume you'e changed your last name.

I think that mixing up Mrs. and Ms. is a lot more forgivable, especially when you consider that it looks like plenty of women here don't know that Ms. is supposed to be the default in professional settings. But I also don't get annoyed when foreign people think I'm a Mr. over email (and think that's a little uptight, TBH), possibly because I'm sure I've probably made a similar mistake or will in the future. I save my name-related rage for people who STILL cannot spell my husband's name correctly despite having seen it in writing many times.

[cjeanette]

I just can't force myself to get worked up over this. I have one client who addresses me as Miss CJ and I am pretty sure he knows I am married. Don't care.

Now if you address an invitation you send to my house properly I get annoyed. Don't ask me why.

[ebeth]

Apr 22, 2014 13:09:11 GMT -5 jillboston said:

Apr 22, 2014 13:05:05 GMT -5 ebeth said:

if I learned anything from the hit CBS series 'The Good Wife' it's that attorneys refer to each other as Mrs/Mr.

I'm all in favor of adopting the universal Ms. though. our outlook used to have a feature where your preferred title was displayed along with your name. that was nice.

basically, I don't think that this dude was trying to offend and I don't think the universal 'Ms' is getting much press.

I've never heard or seen a female attorney addressed as Mrs. It is Ms. or more appropriately counselor or Attorney Derkins in a court setting.

why do they do it on TV if it's not true?