Bowe Bergdahl -- wdyt?

[jillboston]

I don't know what to think about him being a deserter. If that is the case I guess it depends on the standard Dept. of Defense position on matters like this. I'm assuming since Chuck Hagel  orchestrated the exchange or at the very least strongly publicly defends it -that either the desertion claim is false or doesn't matter to the DOD (in any POW situation - not just this one).
As for the prisoner exchange - I have no problem at all with it. Prisoners have been exchanged in every war/conflict the US has been involved in including with Nazi Germany and the Civil War (if taking arms up against your government inside your country isn't treason I don't know what is) . I am also not certain why Guantanamo is even still open - I don't know what right we have to hold foreign combatants/soldiers whatever you want to call them indefinitely.

[josieposy]

My weekend post didn't get a ton of traction on this andI thought for sure it would because it poses a lot of questions!

On one hand I get the precedent argument, but the fact that it took 5 years to get him back makes me think that capturing troops may not be a wise investment if you want fast action from the US. That certainly doesn't mean that someone won't try to up the ante, but it's not like this soldier was picked up out of his own bunk either.

We absolutely had a duty to bring him home, but I'd like to know more about the men at Gitmo. Did we absolutely know these men were a danger, or are they like a bunch of other men that are being held indefinitely with no charges? I want to read more about them.

[racegrrl714]

I feel like, deserter or not, maybe we did this because we think he may have more and better intel than the five guys we traded for him. I don't know. The whole thing is too eerily like the premise to Homeland that I don't know what to think. LOL

[josieposy]

Also, doesn't dessertion only apply in time of war? We never actually declared war in Afghanistan did we?

[josieposy]

Ah it's the punishment that makes the difference. I see. Thanks for the link!

(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.”

[msmerymac]

I can't imagine his parents knowing he was being held captive for FIVE YEARS and what they were going through. I also think it's definitely worth getting American POWs home, full stop.

I've also heard that his heath was deteriorating, which is why they decided to get him out ASAP and get him to Germany. And that he's having trouble remembering English, which... I don't even know. Is that from being out of practice, from severe mental trauma due to torture, from the Taliban trying to reprogram him?

The fact that the 5 prisoners we traded were all recommended for indefinite detainment concerns me in a way, but the existence of GitMo, period, concerns me in another way. Hey, I'm just glad I get to elect people to make these decisions.

[jillboston]

Jun 2, 2014 9:45:00 GMT -5 Stan said:

And I'm sorry, I don't care what his non mental health provider friend said, to walk off a base in the middle of a war zone, you're out of your mind.

Who isn't recommended for indefinite internment at GB? Serious question.

Under what theory are we allowed to imprison any person indefinitely without due process? Serious question.

[cattledogkisses]

Jun 2, 2014 9:45:00 GMT -5 Stan said:

And I'm sorry, I don't care what his non mental health provider friend said, to walk off a base in the middle of a war zone, you're out of your mind.

Who isn't recommended for indefinite internment at GB? Serious question.

This is what I keep thinking.  Even if he did desert, which as I understand is still uncertain, no one in their right mind deserts in Afghanistan.  Where are you going to go?

I think this story strikes too much of an emotional chord with me for me to be critical.  All I can think of is what his loved ones have been going through for the last five years.

[jillboston]

Jun 2, 2014 9:50:02 GMT -5 Stan said:

Jun 2, 2014 9:48:53 GMT -5 jillboston said:

Under what theory are we allowed to imprison any person indefinitely without due process? Serious question.

I don't know if you're asking me, but I'm pretty anti GB. It's terrorist creating propaganda fodder.

So am I. That's why I am confused about the concern about the 5 that were released.

[jillboston]

Jun 2, 2014 10:07:37 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I'm not completely informed on this event. Just getting the first glimpse of it on CNN, so at the moment, my biggest annoyance is the "Obama negotiated with terrorists" shit all over social media and the news. People are just so goddamn stupid. Harrison Ford was never an actual president and he didn't even do his own stunts. Also, sorry to ruin your day, but you know who WAS president and negotiated with terrorists? REAGAN!!!

Exactly. At the end of the day it all comes down to Obama doing something that has been done countless times by other Presidents but it is wrong, wrong, evil, evil because Obama did it (or didn't depending on the circumstance).

[cattledogkisses]

Jun 2, 2014 10:10:41 GMT -5 jillboston said:

Jun 2, 2014 10:07:37 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I'm not completely informed on this event. Just getting the first glimpse of it on CNN, so at the moment, my biggest annoyance is the "Obama negotiated with terrorists" shit all over social media and the news. People are just so goddamn stupid. Harrison Ford was never an actual president and he didn't even do his own stunts. Also, sorry to ruin your day, but you know who WAS president and negotiated with terrorists? REAGAN!!!

Exactly. At the end of the day it all comes down to Obama doing something that has been done countless times by other Presidents but it is wrong, wrong, evil, evil because Obama did it (or didn't depending on the circumstance).

Yep.  If he hadn't negotiated for Bergdahl's freedom, they would be talking about how Obama abandoned an American POW to rot in enemy land. 

[ttt]

I don't know much about this, but I just wanted to add that the Israelis do prisoner swaps all the time. This is the first I've heard of the US doing it, though (but granted, it's not a topic I am very knowledgable about in the first place).

[lys]

Walked off his post and left everything behind. 
6 soldiers who searched for him were killed.
He had e-mails that raised "suspicions" as to his loyalties .
We traded him for FIVE very senior ranking learders in the Al Qaeda organizations --- it won't be many years before we will see the negative results of their release in the form of attacks planned and executed by them.
A one year travel restriction is all they are required to observe??? Really.  They do not need to travel to cause harm to others.

We ignored 4 Americans under attack in Benghazi - but will rescue this soldier?

What an awful precedent this sets.

[lys]

SBP - Why does the Taliban hand Bowe over now?? Because Bowe is no longer useful to them, his info is too old to help them? Apparently he is also very sick.
Yes, the government is not being straight - again.

[sushi]

Bingo!

Surely we've made a Benghazi drinking game, right?

[EloiseWeenie]

It's so hard for me to believe the emails were his. Do you think the Taliban asked him if he'd prefer an iphone or droid?

[meshaliuknits]

We didn't actually free those dudes, though, right? I thought I'd heard they were just moved to a different high security prison. Am I mistaken?

[Knight]

Dammit! I need a Solyndra reference for a Bingo.

[josieposy]

Come on now. I called Benghazi on Saturday. Keep up!

[gpw]

Jun 2, 2014 10:07:37 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I'm not completely informed on this event. Just getting the first glimpse of it on CNN, so at the moment, my biggest annoyance is the "Obama negotiated with terrorists" shit all over social media and the news. People are just so goddamn stupid. Harrison Ford was never an actual president and he didn't even do his own stunts. Also, sorry to ruin your day, but you know who WAS president and negotiated with terrorists? REAGAN!!!

I hope you know that every time you bring up Reagan I zing my H with whatever it is you're pointing out.  It's usually a high point in my day.  I hope you don't ever stop. 

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2014 10:42:24 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Jun 2, 2014 10:10:41 GMT -5 jillboston said:

Exactly. At the end of the day it all comes down to Obama doing something that has been done countless times by other Presidents but it is wrong, wrong, evil, evil because Obama did it (or didn't depending on the circumstance).

Yep.  If he hadn't negotiated for Bergdahl's freedom, they would be talking about how Obama abandoned an American POW to rot in enemy land. 

Considering he's been there for five fucking years and most people didn't even remember the Taliban was holding an American until this, no, I don't believe this at all.

But I admit that I am more than fed up with the assertion that everything Obama does or doesn't do is perfectly acceptable or at least not completely and totally shitty because people would be pissed at him no matter what.

[Deleted]

I mean hell, I forgot.

I think he deserted. Now whether he deserted because he was drunk/high or because he wanted to see China, or because he was losing his mind, or because he had delusions of Taliban grandeur, I don't know.

We're used to thinking of war as being like Vietnam where soldiers are given a relatively decent amount of personal freedom to come and go when they are not out on a mission, to dress as they like, go where they please. This is decidedly not the case, not at any point in these wars.

There is also a hell of a lot of security and protocols. No one kidnapped him from the latrine or lured him away with skittles. He left. He left on purpose though a concerted effort of his own, likely after having thought about it a good long while.

I'm not sure what I think about how they got him back. I'm glad he's home and I hope he's getting the help he needs. I'm not sure it's worth actually forming a solid opinion here because no one is going to tell us the truth of why he was returned now, what those five guys were worth, and if that was all there was to the deal.

[NewOrleans]

Some of the outrage surely comes from his apparent conversion to Islam.

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2014 9:09:53 GMT -5 Stan said:

I am curious about them too. Were they specifically requested or were they just 5 randoms? I still maintain we wouldn't have done the exchange if they were big deals.

Everything I've read indicates they are pretty big deals. Several of them are believed to be involved the massacre of thousands of Shiites. One worked directly with Bin Laden. One trained the intel officers responsible for 9/11. So...unsettling that they are now free in Qatar.

www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-transferred-guantanamo-detainees/

[ohyouknow]

I agree with HelenaBonham - I think he deserted too. Anyone whose been deployed there would understand you aren't just hanging around outside the wire alone gazing at the birds and daydreaming.
As a longtime active duty member, I'm not so forgiving of his actions. I don't wish captivity on anyone and I'm glad he's back, but I don't feel particularly sorry for him. Especially considering the soldiers killed while looking for him.

[secretlyevil]

I find the father aspect of this story to be an interesting twist.

[teflepi]

the deserting and thing makes me really angry specially in a time of combat. this is nothing like going to Canada or whatever this was a time of war. I don't give a s*** that Obama negotiated with whatever people do it all the israel wanted 1 person and gave up a thousand prisoners. his email is under duress hold no water with me. is he deserted he's not a hero. nope.

[secretlyevil]

I was listening to the Today Show as I was getting ready this morning and I only heard bits and pieces of an interview of a solider from Bergdahl's unit. I have to agree, calling him a hero is not correct.

[teflepi]

plus six people died looking for this guy did he deserve it it's ridiculous...leave no man behind thinking. he may have chosen to leave them behind.

[msmerymac]

Jun 2, 2014 10:03:39 GMT -5 jillboston said:

Jun 2, 2014 9:50:02 GMT -5 Stan said:

I don't know if you're asking me, but I'm pretty anti GB. It's terrorist creating propaganda fodder.

So am I. That's why I am confused about the concern about the 5 that were released.

Well, 3 of them have already been there for 12 years (since Gitmo became a thing), so I don't know that the damage hasn't already been done, yeah?