My great uncle is 94 with dementia (it's still early) and still drives and lives alone. My mom informed that he recently drove with only one lens in his eye glasses to a closed hardware store for sort of no reason. He's been having many more frequent "episodes" (called 911 b/c someone "broke in and stole his car keys", on some days does not know his wife passed away, looks around for her, which is so sad). My mom needs to find her big girl pants and make some tough decisions (she is executor, POA, HCP, and next of kin).
I fear two things - one he injures himself and two hurts someone else. My mom knows this too but she's a waffler and just can't seen to pull the trigger. It's obviously a touchy subject.
Oh god it's the worst. My grandfather (god love him) took two nursing home neighbors on a 10 hour joy ride from Sacramento to Los Angeles, only to be found by the CHP. I have been there.
In our case, the highway patrol got the DMV to suspend the license. We were still the bad guys in grandpas eyes for taking away the keys.
I had to do the keys by the way--my mom couldn't handle it. But I was the one who had to get up in the middle of the night and drive him and his compatriots back from LA overnight, so I was in no mood for his foolishness.
That's quite the joyride y4m ! I keep telling her these types of horror stories and she just said to me that God forbid something does happen that I am going to pin it on her - but she's in charge here. It's not safe. I am a pretty blunt person and maybe could be considered cold in these types of scenarios - but I keep telling her - what if he hits someone's grandkids? That sort of gets her attention b/c it tugs at her heartstrings but enough is enough.
Post by teatimefor2 on Jul 9, 2014 21:21:54 GMT -5
Firstly, I am so sorry. It is hard to address this when loved ones age. We had to take away my grandma's, but the doctor took the lead (and was essentially the bad guy), as she developed macular degeneration (vision loss) and had no option.
Does your mom accompany your uncle to the Doctor's or could she contact his Doctor? I don't know the details, but my grandma's doctor (she had the same doctor for decades) was instrumental in assisting.
Post by imojoebunny on Jul 9, 2014 21:28:45 GMT -5
If he has dementia, even early, you can't just take away the license, you have to take away the car, or at least the keys. I won't cop to this, but my neighbors disabled the battery on my old neighbors car after seeing him drive nutty on several occasions. He had been nutty for a while, and should not have been driving. it's pretty easy. Just unplug the battery or if he is handy cut the cable someplace difficult to find.
My grandfather was more rational about it, but still angry. He did not have dementia, but at 90 or 91, we pulled his plug because his reactions were just to slow. We talked to him about killing people, which was not something he was interested in. We set him up with an account with a cab company, so he didn't need cash, and could go where he wanted to go with a click on the "favorites" on his cell phone. He ended up preferring that, and since he didn't go out a lot alone it was actually much cheaper than owning a car.
These are all really helpful. She is going with him to his next appt and plans to connect with the dr beforehand, she is hoping he can be the heavy. Glad to hear others had success with that.
If you know who his physician is, contact him/her and say patient is not capable of driving/living on his own. This can get the ball rolling. Contact your county's senior services division for help and info as well.
My dad had to stop his mom from driving. He went to her house and disconnected "something" in the car so it wouldn't start. The mechanic she used was in on it so when she called him he told her the car couldn't be fixed. She had many family members around to take her where ever she needed and slowly she forgot about driving herself.
The problem is -- particularly with dementia at play, taking away his license may do nothing to stop him from driving. People drive without a license all the time. Some get caught, but many don't.
If you know who his physician is, contact him/her and say patient is not capable of driving/living on his own. This can get the ball rolling. Contact your county's senior services division for help and info as well.
I tried this with my grandparents, and was told that they could not bring it up in an appointment unless my grandparents did first. They were 88 ducking years old at the time-- why is this not a standard this to ask about in a drs visit?
In the end, I wrote a letter to the DMV with specific examples of my concerns, and they got the ball rolling.
If you know who his physician is, contact him/her and say patient is not capable of driving/living on his own. This can get the ball rolling. Contact your county's senior services division for help and info as well.
I tried this with my grandparents, and was told that they could not bring it up in an appointment unless my grandparents did first. They were 88 ducking years old at the time-- why is this not a standard this to ask about in a drs visit?
In the end, I wrote a letter to the DMV with specific examples of my concerns, and they got the ball rolling.
I wonder if this is different b/c of the dementia? My mom is also power of attorney, health care proxy, and executor of his estate - so she might have some legal authority given one of those things? He also recently called 911 for essentially a dementia induced false alarm and they did a medical eval at his house so it is likely that all is going to come up at his next dr's visit anyway. He called 911 b/c he thought someone broke in and took his car keys, then later recounting the story to my mom said that the paramedics came to the house to evaluate his wife (she died almost a year ago).
please do this. I know its hard, but its worth it. My grandmother started getting dementia (only in small doses) and she ended up in a car accident and had no idea where she was. Her license was soon taken away after that, but it was a wake up call to my family on how bad she was getting. Luckily no one was hurt in the accident and the other car stayed with my grandma until help arrived.
Yes, if your mom has medical poa, she should be able to discuss this with the doc. My grandfather was/is in poor health, and increasingly confused, but has never received a formal diagnosis that would have caused my mom to press the issue for poa. I intervened because they were frequently getting lost while driving in areas that should have been familiar, and coming home with dents and dings in their car that they couldn't explain.
It sucks all around. I'm sorry you are going through this.
I tried this with my grandparents, and was told that they could not bring it up in an appointment unless my grandparents did first. They were 88 ducking years old at the time-- why is this not a standard this to ask about in a drs visit?
In the end, I wrote a letter to the DMV with specific examples of my concerns, and they got the ball rolling.
I wonder if this is different b/c of the dementia? My mom is also power of attorney, health care proxy, and executor of his estate - so she might have some legal authority given one of those things? He also recently called 911 for essentially a dementia induced false alarm and they did a medical eval at his house so it is likely that all is going to come up at his next dr's visit anyway. He called 911 b/c he thought someone broke in and took his car keys, then later recounting the story to my mom said that the paramedics came to the house to evaluate his wife (she died almost a year ago).
This is in a different state but, Mr. Pom has medical POA over FIL and that doesn't have anything to do with his license. My step dad just talked to his doctor too because of his stroke (in Ohio). Basically in both of their cases, the easiest thing is that they can surrender their license. If not, either law enforcement can initiate the process (following a traffic stop for instance) or a medical provider. These are the two ways we were told. Maybe there is another way, this is what I know. My step dad's doctor doesn't feel it's needed in his case. For my FIL, his Nurse Practitioner called us to inform us that this is happening since he lives alone, she had arranged the dementia evaluation, but had already sent the state DMV paperwork to begin the process. While we were home to take FIL to the dementia eval, he received the letter from the DMV. It was a 5 page form and basically 2 pages were for him/the driver to fill out/or another person may fill it out and there was a section to give info if you filled it out on the driver's behalf. The rest of it was for his doctor to fill out. I filled out FIL's section and we returned it to the doctor's office. The cover letter stated that he would be scheduled for an appointment for evaluation after the form was completed and returned to the regional DMV office. (This will probably never happen due to the dementia eval results). Just thought I'd pass this info along, even though it's not your state.
FWIW, I totally agree with all your concerns and we fear the same kinds of situations. Hurting himself or someone else is unthinkable. I also agree that disabling or removing the car is the answer. We know that if left unattended, FIL will drive, license or no license. We secured a senior living apartment for him yesterday and they have transportation and also we will also drive him when needed. This is a major blow to their independence. It's difficult and having a plan in place...bus schedules, who he should call for a ride, county senior transportation, taxi cab numbers, whatever, might make it easier.
please do this. I know its hard, but its worth it. My grandmother started getting dementia (only in small doses) and she ended up in a car accident and had no idea where she was. Her license was soon taken away after that, but it was a wake up call to my family on how bad she was getting. Luckily no one was hurt in the accident and the other car stayed with my grandma until help arrived.
This is my fear – and until this point my family hasn't taken it seriously enough. My cousin is more upset that he doesn't use kitty litter and she wanted to have his cat surrendered because he puts newspaper down for the cat to do its business. Like really people? What is wrong with them. I keep bringing it up that this is an incredibly serious thing. I happen to be going there today to have their house evaluated by realtor so I'll be able to see his condition for myself.
FWIW, I totally agree with all your concerns and we fear the same kinds of situations. Hurting himself or someone else is unthinkable. I also agree that disabling or removing the car is the answer. We know that if left unattended, FIL will drive, license or no license. We secured a senior living apartment for him yesterday and they have transportation and also we will also drive him when needed. This is a major blow to their independence. It's difficult and having a plan in place...bus schedules, who he should call for a ride, county senior transportation, taxi cab numbers, whatever, might make it easier.
I'm sure you said in your other thread and I apologize I should just read that but is he going to move willingly? Because on his most coherent days he knows he wants company and he knows he's lonely but he also lashes out and gets very angry so my mom doesn't think he's going to go willingly. And he's also depression era and is not going to understand why these places are so expensive. Though he has plenty plenty plenty of money to pay for this care.
The doctor suspended my moms license during her...bender...last summer. I was in full support, but my moms anger is placed 100% on the doctor so I didn't suffer any wrath.
FWIW, I totally agree with all your concerns and we fear the same kinds of situations. Hurting himself or someone else is unthinkable. I also agree that disabling or removing the car is the answer. We know that if left unattended, FIL will drive, license or no license. We secured a senior living apartment for him yesterday and they have transportation and also we will also drive him when needed. This is a major blow to their independence. It's difficult and having a plan in place...bus schedules, who he should call for a ride, county senior transportation, taxi cab numbers, whatever, might make it easier.
I'm sure you said in your other thread and I apologize I should just read that but is he going to move willingly? Because on his most coherent days he knows he wants company and he knows he's lonely but he also lashes out and gets very angry so my mom doesn't think he's going to go willingly. And he's also depression era and is not going to understand why these places are so expensive. Though he has plenty plenty plenty of money to pay for this care.
He asked us to move to Texas. We NEVER thought that would happen. Again, he is lonely and scared too. He told Mr. Pom that he hasn't been able to catch his breath sometimes at night. I have a call in to his doctor, but we suspect it is probably anxiety. That said, he thinks we should buy him a house near us and honestly, he needs more care and interaction than that would provide. Mr. Pom dropped the bomb on the telephone last night that we leased him an apartment and will be there shortly to get him. He's not happy, but I think when he gets there, he will realize it's nothing like he imagines. He is envisioning an old "institution" type facility and this is more like a resort. And yeah, since H has POA, we are not discussing the cost with him. He'd lose his shit. Maybe he could just "check a place out"? All the ones we toured were pretty nice and welcoming.
I'm sure you said in your other thread and I apologize I should just read that but is he going to move willingly? Because on his most coherent days he knows he wants company and he knows he's lonely but he also lashes out and gets very angry so my mom doesn't think he's going to go willingly. And he's also depression era and is not going to understand why these places are so expensive. Though he has plenty plenty plenty of money to pay for this care.
He asked us to move to Texas. We NEVER thought that would happen. Again, he is lonely and scared too. He told Mr. Pom that he hasn't been able to catch his breath sometimes at night. I have a call in to his doctor, but we suspect it is probably anxiety. That said, he thinks we should buy him a house near us and honestly, he needs more care and interaction than that would provide. Mr. Pom dropped the bomb on the telephone last night that we leased him an apartment and will be there shortly to get him. He's not happy, but I think when he gets there, he will realize it's nothing like he imagines. He is envisioning an old "institution" type facility and this is more like a resort. And yeah, since H has POA, we are not discussing the cost with him. He'd lose his shit. Maybe he could just "check a place out"? All the ones we toured were pretty nice and welcoming.
So won't he notice money missing from his account? How are you handling this? Our problem is twofold, one some greedy aholes in my family don't want him spending their inheritance and two he would lose his shit over the cost, but it's the right thing to do. It's about $5k-$7k a month depending on the level of care - this place will move him though all stages of end of life so once he needs nursing he'd just move next door. They are taking a tour at the end of the month, my mom has already been there. Having the money is not an issue it's the mentality b/c he doesn't understand why things would be that expensive.
Hopefully you can talk to your mom about this and take care of it quickly. No one stepped in (or maybe noticed) when Dh's grandfather wasn't driving safely anymore. He ended up in an accident and was pretty banged up (in the hospital for a couple of weeks). He injured the other party and the CHP/DMV took away his license. He felt guilt about hurting someone else in the process. It was a mess. He's going to be embarrassed most likely, but he (and the family) will feel worse if something happens.
please do this. I know its hard, but its worth it. My grandmother started getting dementia (only in small doses) and she ended up in a car accident and had no idea where she was. Her license was soon taken away after that, but it was a wake up call to my family on how bad she was getting. Luckily no one was hurt in the accident and the other car stayed with my grandma until help arrived.
This is my fear – and until this point my family hasn't taken it seriously enough. My cousin is more upset that he doesn't use kitty litter and she wanted to have his cat surrendered because he puts newspaper down for the cat to do its business. Like really people? What is wrong with them. I keep bringing it up that this is an incredibly serious thing. I happen to be going there today to have their house evaluated by realtor so I'll be able to see his condition for myself.
We were very lucky. Like i said she was in the very beg stages of it, so it took this incident for us to put "2 and 2 together". The first incident we realized was when she was on a cruise with us months earlier......we got her her own room right by ours. We would meet every port day in the main lobby (which was down the hall from our rooms) and then leave the boat together. One day she wasnt there....we searched the entire ship for her until my mom thought to ask the Cruise staff to check to see if she had exited the ship already....sure enough she did. We then went to town (had to take a shuttle there) and found her shopping there. She thought we left her and was super confused. We just dismissed the incident as being "old" but it really was the first big incident of dementia and luckily we found her and nothing happened (thank god she didnt get off the ship and get stuck at a port of call by herself!).
you can also contact Adult Protective Services and they will come and do a check on him and if needed, will monitor him indefinitely. We did this for my aunt. Unfortunately Adult Protective Services thought she was in better condition then she was and didn't take many steps, and we found her dead in her house. So of course family should still keep up with taking care of the relative but APS might take a bit of the burden off.
This and if your county has a Council or Commission on Aging. They often work hand-in-hand with APS/Human Services. In some places anyway.