Post by aussiecrush on Jul 22, 2014 9:57:43 GMT -5
As a victim of childhood sexual abuse my 2 cents: teaching stranger danger isn't helpful. The bad guy (or girl) is any person who triggers your gut instinct. Anyone who makes you feel uncomfortable. The guy in the grocery store, a distant cousin, a neighbor they've seen 20 times. Watch your child's body language and encourage conversation about listening to those feelings. We teach everyone, especially kids, to be nice, be friendly. It's ok to keep your distance, even if mom or dad doesn't understand it.
My kids had a secret password and were taught that their privates were private.
When DS2 was 10, he would bike to a friend's house, but not call us when he got there. He did this numerous times which would worry the heck out of me. Finally I had to explain to him what a pedophile was and what could happen. His eyes got big and after that he would call.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
Every time my kids have a well visit our doctor brings it up too. She says that no one can touch them unless they have mommy and daddy's permission, and makes sure to ask us, and the child, before she starts her exam. I reinforce at home that just because someone says they are a doctor they don't get the automatic right to put their hands on them. I don't want some creep saying he's a doctor so the kids think it's ok.
Or if I had seen this I could have just said ditto. Lol
Post by justcallmekhaleesi on Jul 22, 2014 10:00:21 GMT -5
We started talking about this with DD at a fairly young age.
We talked about private parts and how it's only okay for Mommy, Daddy, or a doctor to look at them or touch them and that's only if we're washing her body in the bath or if there is something wrong and only with her permission. We tell her if she is not okay with it, she can tell us and we will not touch her.
I also read a blog post that I liked and it talked about teaching them about personal space by using yourself as an example. So when DD is touching me or laying on me in an uncomfortable way (like digging her elbows into my ribs lol) and it's bothering me, I'll say, "DD, please don't do that. When someone asks you to stop touching their body, you have to stop. So if someone was touching you and you don't want them to, you tell them they have to stop or you will tell your mom and dad."
We've also discussed "tricky people" and finding a mom with kids if she were to ever get lost.
It's such a scary thing to think/talk about. It terrifies me because it's so easy for it to happen. They can't be with you 24/7.
Oh. I even told DS that the doctor can only look at his privates if I am in the room - I think the book says this too??
Anyway - I didn't want him to think that just because someone says they are a doctor he had to allow access to his privates.
One of the reasons I love my pediatrician is how he talks TO my kids, not AT them, or to them through me. Every time he examines them, he tells them that only he and mommy and daddy can look at their private parts, and that mommy or daddy should always be there when a doctor looks.
Thanks for all the great tips in this thread. I am going to order that book.
I thought we could maybe discuss what we are doing in our houses with our children - to teach them and protect them.
Not much, yet, as he's only 16 months old. We're taking baby steps right now.
I am very physically affectionate (can't get enough snuggles with DS!) but I'm trying to empower him now by picking up on his queues when he wants space or doesn't want to accept a hug or smooch. I even voice that I will give him his space, and place him back down. I want to teach him to also be respectful in turning down affection when it comes to a simple hug or kiss from a family member or close friend, because those interactions can cause negative feelings if he doesn't have the tools to navigate through them.
I hope I'm modeling positive behavior with boundaries with my quick actions when he shakes his head no if I blow raspberries on his tummy, or we're in the midst of snuggles on the couch and he wiggles to get free. I place him right onto the floor and remain positive. (Not how things were modeled in my home. I was pinned down, and forced into even simple affectionate situations and sent on a guilt trip. My mom STILL voices her disappointment when I refuse to kiss her. WTF.)
I'm not one for cutesy names for body parts, so I am open about that. And in the tub/getting dressed I stress "that is YOUR body part", using the proper name.
As a victim of abuse myself, I want more than anything, to create an environment where he is comfortable talking to us about anything. Keeping secrets in my family was the norm, and it is so, so incredibly important to be the type of parent he is comfortable approaching, even when threatened not to share information. I would rather he share too much, than too little. Some of the secrets I held I was specifically told not to share. Others were situations where I felt shamed or overpowered. I also didn't have anyone I felt comfortable speaking with until I was a teen. Then I held some of it back because of the pain in letting it all pour out. I want make a habit of engaging DS about his feelings and actions when I'm not around, so I can pick up on anything that may be off tune, per se. I look back and think "if someone had just asked me a few questions"...
Thanks for posting the link above. I hope to have a couple in our circulation with subtle messages to keep him reminded he has the power to say "no".
I just want to add that in the years that I have been working/volunteering in this area one of the biggest changes I've seen happen has been to change the language we use from good/bad touches to ok/not ok touches because many kids would get confused because what they thought what should have been a bad touch could feel good. It was easier for them to understand ok and not ok. It was more precise.
Oh. I even told DS that the doctor can only look at his privates if I am in the room - I think the book says this too??
Anyway - I didn't want him to think that just because someone says they are a doctor he had to allow access to his privates.
our ped always asks the girls (started when they were infants) if she's allowed to check their pelvic area and then says something like "it's only okay for me to check you because your mom is here and you said yes. it's okay for you to say no if you're uncomfortable." We also don't use the word "secret" in our house because we reiterate that they should never keep secrets from us, we use "surprises." And I think everyone knows that you should always use the correct terms (vague is okay, but nothing like "flower" or "cookie").
remember a few years ago, we were talking about this here and mcnasty piped in and was like, 'my son calls vaginas 'lickety-splits', ha hah ah'
and we were all…
:?
I hate you.
This issue worries me so much. Right now we're just using proper terms and reinforcing the idea that she doesn't have to touch or speak to anyone that she doesn't want to. One of my husband's drunken uncles tried to chastise her and call her mean because she didn't want to hug him and sit with him. I honestly could have killed him with my bare hands at that very moment. Luckily it didn't come to that, but I did have to let him know that I was real live crazy person.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Especially after a local teacher at a private school was just busted with thousands of pictures of child porn on his computer, as well as pictures of himself abusing a little boy. He had been teaching grades 5-8 for 9 years and that is the age that he seemed to have targeted that. He was also a youth pastor and a cub scout leader. At one time, he approached the guardian of a little boy in his class and offered to be a mentor since the dad was out of the picture. The guardian said that, in hindsight, she felt uneasy at his continued offerings, but didn't say anything about it to anyone because she felt like she was possibly being paranoid.
A guy I went to high school with recently overdosed and died. He became addicted to drugs at a young age after he was continually abused by his teacher and eventually testified against him and put him to jail. He started a foundation to help other children of sexual abuse, but died before it was fully instated. Now, his parents are heading the foundation. (http://www.straightupsolgier.com/)
Communication is so important and I am always trying to tell my kids they can tell me anything without the fear of me getting upset or telling someone else.
L is reserved. Also, I never make her hug/kiss/whatever anyone, myself included (as in, if she wants to fist bump to say goodnight, then so be it). Lately, my dad--WHO IS NOT ABUSIVE. I REPEAT, HE IS NOT ABUSIVE--has started, if she won't kiss him, jokingly grabbing her in a bear hug and giving her a kiss on the cheek (not in secret, in full view of the universe). She is laughing during these little sessions. He has suggested to my mom to do the same, since it breaks my mom's heart that L won't kiss her.
I HATE IT. I want to tell him to stop. But I don't know how to tell him to stop without saying "dude, don't act the same way a molester would act."
1) would you talk to your dad at all about this?
2) if so, how would you phrase it?
Please also keep in mind my dad is like Mr. Sensitive Manipulator if you hurt his feelings he sulks. I give exactly 0 fucks about that, but it does make it hard to get a message through to him before he defensively shuts down.
A big thing that led me to keep quiet about my abuse is my family knew what my grandfather had been accused of and decided that if he did it, it was only because he was an alcoholic. Because he was sober when he started abusing me, I felt like my family basically offered me up to him and would never believe me and he was careful to reinforce that- he would lie about ME lying to show me my parents trusted his word over mine, like a warning, and presumably to erode their trust in me.
I know with P I will always reinforce to him that I will believe him if he tells me something like that, regardless of what happens or anyone says. I think that reassurance is crucial.
L is reserved. Also, I never make her hug/kiss/whatever anyone, myself included (as in, if she wants to fist bump to say goodnight, then so be it). Lately, my dad--WHO IS NOT ABUSIVE. I REPEAT, HE IS NOT ABUSIVE--has started, if she won't kiss him, jokingly grabbing her in a bear hug and giving her a kiss on the cheek (not in secret, in full view of the universe). She is laughing during these little sessions. He has suggested to my mom to do the same, since it breaks my mom's heart that L won't kiss her.
I HATE IT. I want to tell him to stop. But I don't know how to tell him to stop without saying "dude, don't act the same way a molester would act."
1) would you talk to your dad at all about this?
2) if so, how would you phrase it?
Please also keep in mind my dad is like Mr. Sensitive Manipulator if you hurt his feelings he sulks. I give exactly 0 fucks about that, but it does make it hard to get a message through to him before he defensively shuts down.
I would say to him that you're trying to teach her about consent and bodily autonomy so she'll feel empowered to say no to physical touch she doesn't want in the future- including advances from boys, etc. Your dad may be safe and doing it from the point of view of love for her, but the day will come that "well, if you really loved me.." Will be words she will have to contend with and you want her to feel absolutely sure that love doesn't entitle anyone to touch her or do anything to her. Then tell him he needs to stop.
If you see him do it I would call him out as uncomfortable as it may be- that way your daughter is getting a consistent message.
I would avoid mentioning child molesters and really present it as him modeling to her how a man should treat a woman.
L is reserved. Also, I never make her hug/kiss/whatever anyone, myself included (as in, if she wants to fist bump to say goodnight, then so be it). Lately, my dad--WHO IS NOT ABUSIVE. I REPEAT, HE IS NOT ABUSIVE--has started, if she won't kiss him, jokingly grabbing her in a bear hug and giving her a kiss on the cheek (not in secret, in full view of the universe). She is laughing during these little sessions. He has suggested to my mom to do the same, since it breaks my mom's heart that L won't kiss her.
I HATE IT. I want to tell him to stop. But I don't know how to tell him to stop without saying "dude, don't act the same way a molester would act."
1) would you talk to your dad at all about this?
2) if so, how would you phrase it?
Please also keep in mind my dad is like Mr. Sensitive Manipulator if you hurt his feelings he sulks. I give exactly 0 fucks about that, but it does make it hard to get a message through to him before he defensively shuts down.
I would say to him that you're trying to teach her about consent and bodily autonomy so she'll feel empowered to say no to physical touch she doesn't want in the future- including advances from boys, etc. Your dad may be safe and doing it from the point of view of that, but the day will come that "well, if you really loved me.." Will be words she will have to contend with and you want her to feel absolutely sure that love doesn't entitle anyone to touch her or do anything to her. Then tell him he needs to stop.
If you see him do it I would call him out as uncomfortable as it may be- that way your daughter is getting a consistent message.
I would avoid mentioning child molesters and really present it as him modeling to her how a man should treat a woman.
That's a good idea. We'll see them next month and I'll talk to him about it then. I think it's easier handled in person.
We've been doing a lot of what was mentioned above. I went to a seminar recently, given by the woman who wrote that book recommended by the OP. She was great and gave lots of useful info. We were doing this somewhat already, but at dinner each night, we all talk about three things -- good or bad -- that happened to us that day. It's an opportunity to create open dialogs.
The gal who gave the seminar gave us a postcard with safe-smarts rules, which I just pulled off my fridge. Some of them are:
- I'm the BOSS OF MY BODY. - Safe Grownups don't ask kids for help. (Like finding a lost puppy etc. They go to other adults for assistance.) - Everyone's "bathing suit areas" are private. No bathing suit area games allowed. - I don't have to be polite if someone makes me feel scared of uncomfortable. It's okay to say no, even to grownups or bigger kids. - No secrets from parents, especially ones that involves their bodies. - Always listen to my own inner voice, especially if I get an "uh-oh" feeling.
L is reserved. Also, I never make her hug/kiss/whatever anyone, myself included (as in, if she wants to fist bump to say goodnight, then so be it). Lately, my dad--WHO IS NOT ABUSIVE. I REPEAT, HE IS NOT ABUSIVE--has started, if she won't kiss him, jokingly grabbing her in a bear hug and giving her a kiss on the cheek (not in secret, in full view of the universe). She is laughing during these little sessions. He has suggested to my mom to do the same, since it breaks my mom's heart that L won't kiss her.
I HATE IT. I want to tell him to stop. But I don't know how to tell him to stop without saying "dude, don't act the same way a molester would act."
1) would you talk to your dad at all about this?
2) if so, how would you phrase it?
Please also keep in mind my dad is like Mr. Sensitive Manipulator if you hurt his feelings he sulks. I give exactly 0 fucks about that, but it does make it hard to get a message through to him before he defensively shuts down.
I would say to him that you're trying to teach her about consent and bodily autonomy so she'll feel empowered to say no to physical touch she doesn't want in the future- including advances from boys, etc. Your dad may be safe and doing it from the point of view of love for her, but the day will come that "well, if you really loved me.." Will be words she will have to contend with and you want her to feel absolutely sure that love doesn't entitle anyone to touch her or do anything to her. Then tell him he needs to stop.
If you see him do it I would call him out as uncomfortable as it may be- that way your daughter is getting a consistent message.
I would avoid mentioning child molesters and really present it as him modeling to her how a man should treat a woman.
cville this is what I was thinking, too. You can add in a bit about how you would really appreciate him helping you out with this, since she looks up to him so much and that it will give her practice with it in the context of a healthy and loving relationship.
I think we do a lot of these things. It's so hard I do try and respect their boundaries. Like I will be tickling my 5yo and he will say stop, but he actually wants me to keep going. But of course I will stop and he will ask me to do it again and I remind him that when he says stop I am going to respect that because it's his body and his choice so he needs to try and say what he means. But it is getting so hard as he gets older and less cuddly not to "force" him into a hug or a kiss when he is trying to squirm away :/
Post by cinnamoncox on Jul 22, 2014 15:18:22 GMT -5
This is so scary to me. I think what gets me the most is don't they say a huge huge % of molestation cases aren't strangers? Who is safe? I imagine there are very few instances where someone said oh yeah I figured he/she was that type. That case recently where the father kicked the guy's ass? It was a close family friend. The father was quoted as saying something on the phone to the police to the effect of the guy was family up until a few minutes ago (when he walked in).
Teaching about tricky adults wouldn't have helped since this kid was going it since he was 15 (victim was 8), so that wouldn't have done any good.
And a pp was right, we are so focused in kids having manners and being polite to everyone. One of my girls (4) is super shy, she is reserved even with us. People out in public talk to her and she just kind of smiles and looks away, and they keep at it talking to her and I get uncomfortable and kind of ok say hi or answer the man/lady so we can get out of there, but I want to say you're a stranger and I'm really ok with her smiling and going on her way vs being forced to do what you want instead of what feels comfortable for her. It's so fucked up, I have no idea how to keep it all sorted out. And because they are twins and are always around each other, they are naked together for baths and while dressing and stuff, so I feel like privacy is hard to teach. Ok your privates are private, well besides when you are bathing together and dressing in the same room, etc. They have no sense of privates. At all. They call each other into the bathroom when they are going potty, they are always saying vagina and laughing like it's the funniest thing ever, they are always touching my boobs out of curiosity but it's like girls come on, how can I teach them about privacy without freaking them out? I always stress about privates are only for ourselves and no one should ever want to see or anything. I'm not sure they really get it, at all. Ds is 15 and man sized so I am not really worried right now anymore about him and strangers for molestation, but I'm sure I'm being naive about that, too.
And my girls are so so so small, sometimes kids in their class (they aren't in school now it's summer but last school year) pick them up a lot and I hate having to say no to that but it's not really ok.
Fuck. Thanks for opening the discussion. Honestly I'm with them 100% of the time they aren't at school. I mean, me or dh. The only people who baby sit ever are my mom and mil. And that's pretty rare even, once or twice a month at most and for short times, like me getting a hair cut or something.
We started talking about this with DD at a fairly young age.
We talked about private parts and how it's only okay for Mommy, Daddy, or a doctor to look at them or touch them and that's only if we're washing her body in the bath or if there is something wrong and only with her permission. We tell her if she is not okay with it, she can tell us and we will not touch her.
I also read a blog post that I liked and it talked about teaching them about personal space by using yourself as an example. So when DD is touching me or laying on me in an uncomfortable way (like digging her elbows into my ribs lol) and it's bothering me, I'll say, "DD, please don't do that. When someone asks you to stop touching their body, you have to stop. So if someone was touching you and you don't want them to, you tell them they have to stop or you will tell your mom and dad."
We've also discussed "tricky people" and finding a mom with kids if she were to ever get lost.
It's such a scary thing to think/talk about. It terrifies me because it's so easy for it to happen. They can't be with you 24/7.
That is a really, really good point to make to a kid.
I'm really enjoying this thread, thanks for posting it Laz.
What age did you start talking to your kids about this stuff? DS is 16 months.
I want to say we started the good touch/bad touch discussions around 18 months.
I started when we would give her a bath. When it came time to wash her vagina, I would tell her Mommy and Daddy need to make sure she's clean, so I would say, "It's only okay for Mommy and Daddy to touch your privates if we're washing your body or if you're complaining that it hurts, then we can look. It's only okay for a doctor to look at or touch your privates if we are with you." I made it clear that it's her body and if she doesn't want us to touch her, that's okay too.
I started the "If someone asks you to stop touching their body, you have to stop" within the last year after reading that blog post. I feel like it's been really effective.
we do the "find a mom" thing, too. i love that. because of church, my kids will ALWAYS be approached by well-meaning adults they dont know. if any of those adults ever says, "your mom asked me to pick you up from school" or "your mom was in a wreck and told me to pick you up and bring you to her," jonah knows to ask for the secret password which will be provided to any adult who is actually supposed to pick him up.
The password thing is a great idea!
This also reminded me about when I read another reason you shouldn't have those decal stick families on your car. Especially the ones that provide more details (like show how one kid is a cheerleader and that you have a dog and a cat). If someone is watching, they can use that information to "prove" to a child that wanders off that they know you. "Hi, your mommy told me to find you.. There was an accident with your doggie and she had to rush to pick your sister up from cheerleading practice to take him to the vet. I'm here to take you to them." etc.
Obviously, that might be a little paranoid, but that always stuck with me. And of course, I don't have kids yet.
Not paranoid. I've heard this too.
I saw some posters talking about monogram in their kids backpacks and it was literally a head-desk minute.