2 hour execution in AZ

[karinothing]

UPDATE 4:10 p.m.: According to the Attorney General's office, Wood's execution started at 1:52 p.m., but he was not declared dead until 3:49 p.m.

His attorney actually prepared a motion during the execution in an attempt to put a stop to it. That motion read, in part:

The Arizona Department of Corrections began the execution of Joseph Rudolph Wood III at 1:52 p.m. At 1:57 p.m ADC reported that Mr. Wood was sedated, but at 2:02 he began to breathe. At 2:03 his mouth moved. Mr. Wood has continued to breathe since that time. He has been gasping and snorting for more than an hour. At 3:02 p.m. At that time, staff rechecked for sedation. He is still alive. This execution has violated Mr. Wood's Eighth Amendment right to be executed in the absence of cruel and unusual punishment.


blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2014/07/arizonas_execution_of_joseph_wood_on_hold.php

I know the death penalty isn't a unity horse on this board, but this is disgusting. IMO.

[NewOrleans]

JFC. Get your shit together and make it clean, man. It doesn't help the cause when executions to go awry.

[secretlyevil]

Holy fuck!

[anonymous]

I'm really not sure how I feel about the death penalty but I know for certain that I am not okay with stories like this

[lime]

JFC

[KB]

This is not ok.

[NewOrleans]

Here's how it went last time we saw a similar case.

pandce.proboards.com/thread/319657/ok-massively-horrifically-botches-execution

[karinothing]

The comments w/this story upset me (people basically saying "why does it matter? he is dead?" Maybe it matters because we aren't supposed to be torturing people? Because we aren't barbarians? ugh.

[ttt]

Does "cruel and unusual" mean any suffering? Anything more than minor pain or discomfort? Moderate pain or discomfort? What is the level of suffering or perceived suffering that qualifies as "cruel and unusual"? It seems like there ought to be some sort of definition here.

[karinothing]

Jul 23, 2014 19:32:17 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Here's how it went last time we saw a similar case.

pandce.proboards.com/thread/319657/ok-massively-horrifically-botches-execution

Yeah, I figure this will go the same. But at least his crime didn't involve a child so maybe folks will have a little more sympathy.

[ttt]

Jul 23, 2014 19:34:29 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Jul 23, 2014 19:32:17 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Here's how it went last time we saw a similar case.

pandce.proboards.com/thread/319657/ok-massively-horrifically-botches-execution

Yeah, I figure this will go the same. But at least his crime didn't involve a child so maybe folks will have a little more sympathy.

Yeah, it was just domestic violence. No biggie. 

[NewOrleans]

Jul 23, 2014 19:33:01 GMT -5 ttt said:

Does "cruel and unusual" mean any suffering? Anything more than minor pain or discomfort? Moderate pain or discomfort? What is the level of suffering or perceived suffering that qualifies as "cruel and unusual"? It seems like there ought to be some sort of definition here.

Good question, really.  No idea.  If he were asphyxiating, that would be way the fuck over the line, I think.  I mean, fine, he (and the assholes in that other story we discussed last time) deserves it.  But should he deserve it at the hands of the state?  I don't know.  

[karinothing]

Jul 23, 2014 19:33:01 GMT -5 ttt said:

Does "cruel and unusual" mean any suffering? Anything more than minor pain or discomfort? Moderate pain or discomfort? What is the level of suffering or perceived suffering that qualifies as "cruel and unusual"? It seems like there ought to be some sort of definition here.

SCOTUS says:

A legislature may prescribe the manner of execution, but the manner may not inflict unnecessary or wanton pain upon the criminal. Courts apply an "objectively intolerable" test when determining if the method of execution violates the Eighth Amendment's ban on cruel and unusual punishments.

[NewOrleans]

Jul 23, 2014 19:34:29 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Jul 23, 2014 19:32:17 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Here's how it went last time we saw a similar case.

pandce.proboards.com/thread/319657/ok-massively-horrifically-botches-execution

Yeah, I figure this will go the same. But at least his crime didn't involve a child so maybe folks will have a little more sympathy.

Um.

[karinothing]

Jul 23, 2014 19:35:24 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jul 23, 2014 19:34:29 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Yeah, I figure this will go the same. But at least his crime didn't involve a child so maybe folks will have a little more sympathy.

Yeah, it was just domestic violence. No biggie. 

I didn't say it was no biggie. Just that it didn't involve a child.

[ttt]

Jul 23, 2014 19:36:57 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Jul 23, 2014 19:33:01 GMT -5 ttt said:

Does "cruel and unusual" mean any suffering? Anything more than minor pain or discomfort? Moderate pain or discomfort? What is the level of suffering or perceived suffering that qualifies as "cruel and unusual"? It seems like there ought to be some sort of definition here.

SCOTUS says:

A legislature may prescribe the manner of execution, but the manner may not inflict unnecessary or wanton pain upon the criminal. Courts apply an "objectively intolerable" test when determining if the method of execution violates the Eighth Amendment's ban on cruel and unusual punishments.

Hm. That doesn't seem to really clear things up. What is "unnecessary or wanton pain"? If someone is unconscious but gasping for breath, does that count as pain? 

[ttt]

Jul 23, 2014 19:37:48 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Jul 23, 2014 19:35:24 GMT -5 ttt said:

Yeah, it was just domestic violence. No biggie. 

I didn't say it was no biggie. Just that it didn't involve a child.

No, it didn't involve a child, but I don't really have any more sympathy for him just because his crime was merely heinous instead of indescribably heinous. 

[karinothing]

Let me rephrase. People focused a LOT on the horribleness of the other crime since it involved a baby. That was a large part of the discussion. I don't know if people think of the murder of a woman and her father as the same level of horribleness as what the other guy did to that baby. Folks often have a stronger reaction to crimes against children. I don't think that is that outlandish of a thing to say. But if it is, I apologize.

[ttt]

I have a lot of opinions about how much suffering these people deserve, on an emotional level. But from a constitutional standpoint, I'm not necessarily convinced that this counts as torture, at least not any more than solitary confinement or maximum security prison is torture.

[karinothing]

Jul 23, 2014 19:38:56 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jul 23, 2014 19:36:57 GMT -5 karinothing said:

SCOTUS says:

A legislature may prescribe the manner of execution, but the manner may not inflict unnecessary or wanton pain upon the criminal. Courts apply an "objectively intolerable" test when determining if the method of execution violates the Eighth Amendment's ban on cruel and unusual punishments.

Hm. That doesn't seem to really clear things up. What is "unnecessary or wanton pain"? If someone is unconscious but gasping for breath, does that count as pain? 

yeah, I have no idea. I don't think SCOTUS has taken up a case that discuses specific side effects of lethal injection. I know they determined lethal injection was not cruel and unusual, but that was when it was working as intended. It seems that in a lot of cases states have decided to step up and put end/pause the death penalty vs. waiting for the courts to do it for them.

[karinothing]

Jul 23, 2014 19:44:02 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Jul 23, 2014 19:38:56 GMT -5 ttt said:

Hm. That doesn't seem to really clear things up. What is "unnecessary or wanton pain"? If someone is unconscious but gasping for breath, does that count as pain? 

Also, WTF is "objectively intolerable"?  I mean, objectively no one has tolerated it since they died, so the death penalty itself would be cruel and unusual.

I have the same amount of sympathy I had before.  Which is that I am not against the death penalty on principal (ie, assuming no police bias, due process, good lawyer, etc. and the person is found guilty), I am against the state doing something to make the defendant suffer.  I'd be perfectly fine with a firing squad.

I guess it is like obscenity? "I know it when i see it" kind of thing. A crappy rule IMO. 

[Velar Fricative]

Since we can't agree on what's "cruel and unusual" and what isn't, how about we just abolish the death penalty??? Novel idea, I know.

[msmerymac]

Has anyone mentioned that they tried to stop this execution EARLIER THIS WEEK? I believe the circuit court of appeals said, "Um, you need to tell us what drugs you are using and where you're getting them so we can determine whether or not its cruel and unusual punishment, or else no execution for you, Arizona." They appealed to SCOTUS, who said, "Sure, AZ, go ahead and perform a medical experiment on a human being in state custody!" And then this happened, just like with the several previous executions. Who could have seen this coming?!

It's assumed that these states are getting their drugs from compounding pharmacies, but they aren't telling and they won't because of the ramifications of the paper trail, I guess.

[AJL]

1) The length of time it took for him to asphyxia to death is not OK regardless of his crime.

2) I'm not going to get into what kind of suffering a criminal deserves. That's not our responsibility to decide as citizens.

3) The law prohibits cruel and unusual punishment but it needs to be more clearly defined.

4) I would rather we abolish the death penalty and incarcerate violent criminals for life without the possibility of release.

[msmerymac]

One thing I find odd, maybe out of context, is that SCOTUS has said that the death penalty may not be imposed on those who are mentally disabled or under the age of 16 when they commit their crimes, because it violates their 8th amendment rights. Also, it cannot be used for "regular" murder cases or for rape in which the victim is not killed.

I find there is a level of mental gymnastics involved in saying that executing someone who stabs an 18 year old to death in cold blood is a violation of the prisoner's 8th amendment rights, while executing someone who strangles a 5 year old to death is completely kosher.

So basically, I don't know that's there's a definition of cruel and unusual. Reviewing the SCOTUS decisions on the death penalty, it seems like they make things up as they go along. Hell, they said mentally disabled prisoners could be put to death 25 years ago and overturned that in 2002.

[ttt]

Jul 23, 2014 20:09:16 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Since we can't agree on what's "cruel and unusual" and what isn't, how about we just abolish the death penalty??? Novel idea, I know.

So why is life in prison not "cruel and unusual"? Or solitary confinement? Or supermax prisons? 

[pescalita]

Jul 23, 2014 20:09:16 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Since we can't agree on what's "cruel and unusual" and what isn't, how about we just abolish the death penalty??? Novel idea, I know.

Nope, sorry, the answer is if we can't agree we should just ignore that amendment.

[sushi]

Hmmm, I'm not sure that someone is suffering if they are drugged and out of it but not dead.

I'm not a dp fan. But I've also been with people who are actively dying that look like they're suffering but I'm sure they're not given the morphine and ativan. So this is hard for me to judge.

[karinothing]

Jul 23, 2014 20:34:39 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Has anyone mentioned that they tried to stop this execution EARLIER THIS WEEK? I believe the circuit court of appeals said, "Um, you need to tell us what drugs you are using and where you're getting them so we can determine whether or not its cruel and unusual punishment, or else no execution for you, Arizona." They appealed to SCOTUS, who said, "Sure, AZ, go ahead and perform a medical experiment on a human being in state custody!" And then this happened, just like with the several previous executions. Who could have seen this coming?!

It's assumed that these states are getting their drugs from compounding pharmacies, but they aren't telling and they won't because of the ramifications of the paper trail, I guess.

Yeah, this is really bothering me about the whole thing (okay well one of the things bothering me). I think at the least a prisoner should have the right to know what drugs are being used to put him to death.

[ttt]

The family of his victims has gone on record and basically said IDGAF

abcnews.go.com/US/family-victims-shows-sympathy-killers-execution/story?id=24693957