Post by Velar Fricative on Jul 24, 2014 19:19:22 GMT -5
Russia has a "Jewish Autonomous Oblast" way WAY WAY out in Far East Bumblefuck. It still bears that name and did have a decent Jewish population, but since anything is better than Siberia, most ended up leaving and moving to Israel and elsewhere.
I've typed and erased that thought on more than one occasion because I was afraid someone would school me on why Russia had to get half of that country.
A shitton of land should have been given back to the Jews after WWII, including land in Poland, what was still Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, and other nations that willfully and purposefully colluded with the Nazis to steal from their Jewish neighbors.
That being said, why in the hell would most Jews immediately post WWII want to live among or even surrounded by the very nations who so easily contributed to their demise?
Because a shitton of Jews are German and Germany is their land too.
A shitton of land should have been given back to the Jews after WWII, including land in Poland, what was still Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, and other nations that willfully and purposefully colluded with the Nazis to steal from their Jewish neighbors.
That being said, why in the hell would most Jews immediately post WWII want to live among or even surrounded by the very nations who so easily contributed to their demise?
Because a shitton of Jews are German and Germany is their land too.
And how many of them still felt German after being stripped of their citizenship and the vast majority of them murdered?
Plus, the implication here is that Israel should exist within or abutting German borders, which implies that Jews of other nationalities should have been eager and happy to live there in the land that spawned their near extinction.
Who knows? Maybe it wouldn't have been a worse idea that snatching up Palestine. But it certainly wasn't a solution.
Flameworthy opinion: If I was on either side of the conflict, I would just give up. That piece of land has ruined too many. The God of either religion could not possibly want all this bloodshed and horror that both sides are guilty of. I would just want some peace once and for all, more than I want to be on the land of my ancestors.
My solution is to burn the whole area to the ground (no people there) then flood it. Nobody gets it
Clearly we Jews need to take official control of New York and New Jersey. Combine the states into New Israel.
Let the orthodox/Hasidism have upstate NY, and let the rest of us control NYC and Northern NJ. I actually don't care if we cut off NJ South of Rt 195, that can stay in the US. The US can keep Long Island as well.
Not much, if anything, would change, except we'd have no tea party. That would be awesome.
Clearly we Jews need to take official control of New York and New Jersey. Combine the states into New Israel.
Let the orthodox/Hasidism have upstate NY, and let the rest of us control NYC and Northern NJ. I actually don't care if we cut off NJ South of Rt 195, that can stay in the US. The US can keep Long Island as well.
Not much, if anything, would change, except we'd have no tea party. That would be awesome.
what about Georgia? We have plenty of rural parts those with insular tendencies could live and you liberals are welcome to Atlanta and Savannah for the coast. Come on down!
This is untrue. Some days we focus on giving TX back to Mexico.
Or seceding. I totally get rvan's butt-hurted-ness. Everyone bags on Texas. And I have family there!!!1111!!
I just saw this on the last page and have not found the other stuff...but I Swear someone got butthurt about mocking of TX a month or so ago. Dude, you have Rick Perry as gov. Sorry not sorry!
There was a time in the history of CEP where conversations such as these would have been met with "you're being anti Semetic." And really I haven't heard that once in all these convos. I think the narrative is shifting.
I only remember Shoshie hinting at that once saying the conversation was making her sick but that was a long time ago.
I was unfriended over saying even a hint of not full support of Israel. Yup.
I've had Kosher Chinese food. I wonder what Kosher Low Country Boil would turn into. Half that shit ain't Kosher. Chicken sausage? Yumma.
I'd rather bring the Palestinians over though. Not that I think the Israelis deserve the land more or anything. Just that I think history has shown that the Middle East in general only pays lip service to the Palestinian plight. I seriously doubt turning over Israel to the Palestinians would give the Palestinian people was they need to create a thriving nation with a strong economy, a reliable government, the necessary infrastructure, or schools, hospitals, and the like.
Also, I promise I'm not posting this to support any arguments that have or haven't been made. Only that it was mentioned in passing and so I was curious to look it up and I thought someone else might find these numbers interesting as well.
Apparently half of all of the Jews killed during the Holocaust were Polish. 3mil out of 3,300,000. Also Bulgaria was the only Eastern European country that actively said, nope, not killing our Jews. GTFO.
Flameworthy opinion: If I was on either side of the conflict, I would just give up. That piece of land has ruined too many. The God of either religion could not possibly want all this bloodshed and horror that both sides are guilty of. I would just want some peace once and for all, more than I want to be on the land of my ancestors.
Not to quibble, but merely to further point out the ridiculousness of it all, but the God each side believes in is the same dude.
Also, I promise I'm not posting this to support any arguments that have or haven't been made. Only that it was mentioned in passing and so I was curious to look it up and I thought someone else might find these numbers interesting as well.
Apparently half of all of the Jews killed during the Holocaust were Polish. 3mil out of 3,300,000. Also Bulgaria was the only Eastern European country that actively said, nope, not killing our Jews. GTFO.
Albania sheltered all their Jews and welcomed Jewish refugees and ended up being the only European country whose Jewish population *increased* after WWII. And whaddya know, close to 80% of Albanians are Muslim.
Clearly we Jews need to take official control of New York and New Jersey. Combine the states into New Israel.
Let the orthodox/Hasidism have upstate NY, and let the rest of us control NYC and Northern NJ. I actually don't care if we cut off NJ South of Rt 195, that can stay in the US. The US can keep Long Island as well.
Not much, if anything, would change, except we'd have no tea party. That would be awesome.
i went to day camp for like 15 years. can i stay? i'll be a shabbas goy!
Clearly we Jews need to take official control of New York and New Jersey. Combine the states into New Israel.
Let the orthodox/Hasidism have upstate NY, and let the rest of us control NYC and Northern NJ. I actually don't care if we cut off NJ South of Rt 195, that can stay in the US. The US can keep Long Island as well.
Not much, if anything, would change, except we'd have no tea party. That would be awesome.
i went to day camp for like 15 years. can i stay? i'll be a shabbas goy!
We aren't kicking out anyone. Everyone can stay! We are a democracy.
Clearly we Jews need to take official control of New York and New Jersey. Combine the states into New Israel.
Let the orthodox/Hasidism have upstate NY, and let the rest of us control NYC and Northern NJ. I actually don't care if we cut off NJ South of Rt 195, that can stay in the US. The US can keep Long Island as well.
Not much, if anything, would change, except we'd have no tea party. That would be awesome.
Also, I promise I'm not posting this to support any arguments that have or haven't been made. Only that it was mentioned in passing and so I was curious to look it up and I thought someone else might find these numbers interesting as well.
Apparently half of all of the Jews killed during the Holocaust were Polish. 3mil out of 3,300,000. Also Bulgaria was the only Eastern European country that actively said, nope, not killing our Jews. GTFO.
Albania sheltered all their Jews and welcomed Jewish refugees and ended up being the only European country whose Jewish population *increased* after WWII. And whaddya know, close to 80% of Albanians are Muslim.
Interesting. I wonder what was different for Albania, Bulgaria, Demark, and Finland that each of those countries made an effort to protect their Jewish population. I think there's a book that discusses Bulgaria but I cannot remember.
Clearly we Jews need to take official control of New York and New Jersey. Combine the states into New Israel.
Let the orthodox/Hasidism have upstate NY, and let the rest of us control NYC and Northern NJ. I actually don't care if we cut off NJ South of Rt 195, that can stay in the US. The US can keep Long Island as well.
Not much, if anything, would change, except we'd have no tea party. That would be awesome.
NO! Send them to PA.
The Tea Party would be laughed out of the state. Try again.
ETA: sorry, I didn't realize you bolded something other than the TP. I'm on my phone.
Clearly we Jews need to take official control of New York and New Jersey. Combine the states into New Israel.
Let the orthodox/Hasidism have upstate NY, and let the rest of us control NYC and Northern NJ. I actually don't care if we cut off NJ South of Rt 195, that can stay in the US. The US can keep Long Island as well.
Not much, if anything, would change, except we'd have no tea party. That would be awesome.
Interesting. I wonder what was different for Albania, Bulgaria, Demark, and Finland that each of those countries made an effort to protect their Jewish population. I think there's a book that discusses Bulgaria but I cannot remember.
Another question: why were the numbers so high specifically in Poland? Did they just have a very large Jewish population, a very weak resistance, Hitler hated them most...? What happened there?
Yes to all, I think? I mean, they WERE taken over militarily in 3 days, so a weak military is a start. They also weren't a country of their own for the entire 19th century (1791, I think until WWI), so while Poles have lived there always, as a nation-state, they were kind of new again. There have been constant border disputes between Poland, Germany and Russia since forever (hence its non-existence as a political entity for so long). There are also many people of German descent living (and who did live) in what are now the borders of Poland.
About 16% of the entire population of Poland was killed during WWII, including Holocaust, civilian (disease, starvation, collateral damage) and military deaths. It's a higher percentage than was killed in the USSR (who lost 20 million people in total, but a smaller percentage of their overall population) and a smaller percentage than Germany, who was INVADED on both sides by enemy armies. I feel like I don't know enough about the devastation of Poland during WWII, but safe to say it was, indeed, devastating.
Interesting. I wonder what was different for Albania, Bulgaria, Demark, and Finland that each of those countries made an effort to protect their Jewish population. I think there's a book that discusses Bulgaria but I cannot remember.
Another question: why were the numbers so high specifically in Poland? Did they just have a very large Jewish population, a very weak resistance, Hitler hated them most...? What happened there?
If I remember correctly, Poland had a very large Jewish concentration, possibly the largest in the world at the time. It was the one part of Europe that had a long tradition of welcoming the Jews, where they set up their own community, centers of learning, and arts. They also weren't in the habit of routinely expelling the Jews when they felt like it.
ETA: And Hitler HATED the Poles so he extra double dog hated Polish Jews. They were also the earliest to be occupied so it was there that the SS had the most time to try out all of their 'experiments'.
Flameworthy opinion: If I was on either side of the conflict, I would just give up. That piece of land has ruined too many. The God of either religion could not possibly want all this bloodshed and horror that both sides are guilty of. I would just want some peace once and for all, more than I want to be on the land of my ancestors.
My solution is to burn the whole area to the ground (no people there) then flood it. Nobody gets it
So sayeth the Lord, "Been there, done that. Check out my big book. Genesis 6:5-10:32."
Another question: why were the numbers so high specifically in Poland? Did they just have a very large Jewish population, a very weak resistance, Hitler hated them most...? What happened there?
Yes to all, I think? I mean, they WERE taken over militarily in 3 days, so a weak military is a start. They also weren't a country of their own for the entire 19th century (1791, I think until WWI), so while Poles have lived there always, as a nation-state, they were kind of new again. There have been constant border disputes between Poland, Germany and Russia since forever (hence its non-existence as a political entity for so long). There are also many people of German descent living (and who did live) in what are now the borders of Poland.
About 16% of the entire population of Poland was killed during WWII, including Holocaust, civilian (disease, starvation, collateral damage) and military deaths. It's a higher percentage than was killed in the USSR (who lost 20 million people in total, but a smaller percentage of their overall population) and a smaller percentage than Germany, who was INVADED on both sides by enemy armies. I feel like I don't know enough about the devastation of Poland during WWII, but safe to say it was, indeed, devastating.
Yep. Poland had only been around as a new country for 20 years or so at the time it was invaded. Polish land was pretty much German, Austro-Hungarian, and Russian before WWI. Part of this included Prussia, which was the big German powerhouse (when Germany was unified, the Prussian king became the Kaiser). Since Hitler was in control of two of the three areas and felt that Germany got screwed in WWI, he wanted a lot of land back. Polish hate + Jewish hate was a really bad combination.
There's also the fact that Poland was entirely occupied, had a weak military, and was occupied pretty much the entire time meant things were bad for everybody there. Toss in the fact that a lot of German concentration camps were in the eastern half of the country or actually in Polish territory, it would have been easier to round up people in the area rather than from further away.