Shooting at hospital outside of Philly, 1 dead

[redheadbaker]

m.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/07/24/three-people-reported-shot-at-mercy-fitzgerald-hospital-in-the-philadelphia-suburbs/

[mala]

Why did the doctor have a gun?

[msmerymac]

Jul 24, 2014 17:52:49 GMT -5 mala said:

Why did the doctor have a gun?

Cause he's a good guy with a gun?

No, seriously, they think it was just his own gun that he was carrying. 

[erbear]

Jul 24, 2014 17:52:49 GMT -5 mala said:

Why did the doctor have a gun?

Valid question.

Though Darby is a shithole. I might carry if I was coming to and from the hospital at weird hours.

Probably not. Or I would check my gun somewhere.

[runblondie26]

Shouldn't we be asking why the psych patient had a gun?

[cinnamoncox]

It said they had issues with that patient in the past, maybe the doctor knew he was a threat.
That poor woman and her family I can't even imagine

So sad.

[cinnamoncox]

Jul 25, 2014 8:13:10 GMT -5 runblondie26 said:

Shouldn't we be asking why the psych patient had a gun?

Yeah, I can see the doctor since he's presumably able pass a background check and stuff, but the mental patient? Even if he could pass the background check by faking it (?), how did he get it into the hospital? Don't they take everything from the patients? Like shoe laces and stuff?

I suppose he must've gotten it from a guard or something?

[robinsbff]

This has been in my Facebook three times this morning as an example of a "good guy with a gun" and how it was surely another mass shooting prevented.

ETA: oh, and that open carry laws protect everyone or something.

[redheadbaker]

I just heard on the news just now that the guy shot up the hospital because he was mad that the hospital posted signs stating that the campus was now gun-free.

[Deleted]

Jul 25, 2014 8:23:03 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

Jul 25, 2014 8:13:10 GMT -5 runblondie26 said:

Shouldn't we be asking why the psych patient had a gun?

Yeah, I can see the doctor since he's presumably able pass a background check and stuff, but the mental patient? Even if he could pass the background check by faking it (?), how did he get it into the hospital? Don't they take everything from the patients? Like shoe laces and stuff?

I suppose he must've gotten it from a guard or something?

The patient wasn't there yesterday as an in-patient. 

He was there for a follow up appointment.

Just like when you go for a regular doctor's appointment. They don't take all your belongings when you go see a psychiatrist on an outpatient basis.

[sushi]

Jul 25, 2014 8:23:03 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

Jul 25, 2014 8:13:10 GMT -5 runblondie26 said:

Shouldn't we be asking why the psych patient had a gun?

Yeah, I can see the doctor since he's presumably able pass a background check and stuff, but the mental patient? Even if he could pass the background check by faking it (?), how did he get it into the hospital? Don't they take everything from the patients? Like shoe laces and stuff?

I suppose he must've gotten it from a guard or something?

Yes, when inpatient. They take absolutely everything, put you in scrubs and socks. At least at our hospital, there's a phone but you have to ask for the cord if you want to make a call. Even pens and pencils are controlled.

But outpatient? Same as any doctor visit. I don't have to go through any checks at my hospital, where my psychiatrist and other specialty docs are.

Even when I worked at a psych clinic there were no safeguards (I had a few nightmares about this, but our pts were mostly stable by the time they got to us)

[sushi]

Oh, and just because someone is a psych pt doesn't mean they can't pass a background check. For my own safety I shouldn't own a gun, but officially I'd easily pass because I see a psych for depression and anxiety. That doesn't make me more likely to commit a crime.

[cinnamoncox]

I read it as they had problems with him in the past, so I took it as he was inpatient.
And I think of a psychiatric hospital as different than a psychiatrists' office.

I still find it bizarre guns can be brought into psychiatric facilities of any kind.

I have anxiety too, and bouts of depression, but I see that as a bit different than a mental disorder where I'm being seen in a psychiatric facility (is it just a doctor's office and they are calling it a psychiatric facility?) enough to be a known problem.

And I know someone with many many guns with diagnosed bipolar 2 and I can't stress enough how much that bothers me. It scares the shit out of me considering all the things he's done and it gets brushed under the rug because of the BP2.
When I hear stories like this it makes me think of him and worry more.

I don't think depression and anxiety makes one more likely to go on shooting spree, but I think being a known problem to staff at a psychiatric facility does make one more likely to do something like this.
Clearly (and luckily) this doctor feels similarly. He saved lives.

[Deleted]

Jul 26, 2014 6:59:27 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

I read it as they had problems with him in the past, so I took it as he was inpatient.
And I think of a psychiatric hospital as different than a psychiatrists' office.

I still find it bizarre guns can be brought into psychiatric facilities of any kind.

I have anxiety too, and bouts of depression, but I see that as a bit different than a mental disorder where I'm being seen in a psychiatric facility (is it just a doctor's office and they are calling it a psychiatric facility?) enough to be a known problem.

And I know someone with many many guns with diagnosed bipolar 2 and I can't stress enough how much that bothers me. It scares the shit out of me considering all the things he's done and it gets brushed under the rug because of the BP2.
When I hear stories like this it makes me think of him and worry more.

I don't think depression and anxiety makes one more likely to go on shooting spree, but I think being a known problem to staff at a psychiatric facility does make one more likely to do something like this.
Clearly (and luckily) this doctor feels similarly. He saved lives.

This didn't occur at a psychiatric facility. It occurred in a regular office building with many different kind of doctors and offices.

Going to see a psychiatrist is already nerve-wracking and traumatic enough for people it's not like they're going to put guards to strip search you anytime you enter in to your psychiatrists office.

So it's not like they saw him walking around with a gun and still allowed him to enter the facility. The only way to not allow someone to hide a weapon is to search everyone.

[cinnamoncox]

Jul 26, 2014 7:23:29 GMT -5 @wandering said:

Jul 26, 2014 6:59:27 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

I read it as they had problems with him in the past, so I took it as he was inpatient.
And I think of a psychiatric hospital as different than a psychiatrists' office.

I still find it bizarre guns can be brought into psychiatric facilities of any kind.

I have anxiety too, and bouts of depression, but I see that as a bit different than a mental disorder where I'm being seen in a psychiatric facility (is it just a doctor's office and they are calling it a psychiatric facility?) enough to be a known problem.

And I know someone with many many guns with diagnosed bipolar 2 and I can't stress enough how much that bothers me. It scares the shit out of me considering all the things he's done and it gets brushed under the rug because of the BP2.
When I hear stories like this it makes me think of him and worry more.

I don't think depression and anxiety makes one more likely to go on shooting spree, but I think being a known problem to staff at a psychiatric facility does make one more likely to do something like this.
Clearly (and luckily) this doctor feels similarly. He saved lives.

This didn't occur at a psychiatric facility. It occurred in a regular office building with many different kind of doctors and offices.

Going to see a psychiatrist is already nerve-wracking and traumatic enough for people it's not like they're going to put guards to strip search you anytime you enter in to your psychiatrists office.

So it's not like they saw him walking around with a gun and still allowed him to enter the facility. The only way to not allow someone to hide a weapon is to search everyone.

I know now that it was a regular psychiatrist office. I read articles that referred to it as a "psychiatric facility" and in my mind that's different, but maybe it's regional, or maybe the articles just had it wrong.

I don't want to be searched either when I go to my therapist , I get that.

But since it said they had a history of trouble/problems with this guy, coupled with the doctor bringing a gun for protection (then using it to save lives), I'm getting the impression things were a bit beyond this being his weekly therapy session?

I did not know psychiatrists office and psychiatric facility are synonymous terms. I do now, at least in news stories.

[redheadbaker]

Jul 26, 2014 7:40:27 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

Jul 26, 2014 7:23:29 GMT -5 @wandering said:

But since it said they had a history of trouble/problems with this guy, coupled with the doctor bringing a gun for protection (then using it to save lives), I'm getting the impression things were a bit beyond this being his weekly therapy session?

The gun was likely for general personal protection, because the office is in a shitty area, not for protection from this individual patient. 

[JLV]

The doctor wasn't supposed to have a gun. Also, according to recent reports, the argument with his case worker started when she said he couldn't bring a gun into the hospital.

ETA: whoops sorry, just saw someone posted that.

[Deleted]

We have a metal detector at my office. But it is kind of a joke. I can certainly see why a psychiatrist would carry a gun.

[cinnamoncox]

Jul 26, 2014 9:32:42 GMT -5 @spenjamins said:

We have a metal detector at my office. But it is kind of a joke. I can certainly see why a psychiatrist would carry a gun.

I absolutely can see why as well.

What do you mean by it's a joke, the metal detector? Just curious.

[cinnamoncox]

Jul 25, 2014 23:56:11 GMT -5 sushi said:

Oh, and just because someone is a psych pt doesn't mean they can't pass a background check. For my own safety I shouldn't own a gun, but officially I'd easily pass because I see a psych for depression and anxiety. That doesn't make me more likely to commit a crime.

I do totally get this, as I said, I also suffer from anxiety and bouts of depressive states of mind, but have you seen this guy's background? The last thing that is concerning is his mental illness. I can't see how someone with a record of violent crimes starting 30 years ago could/should have a gun permit.
So was this an illegal gun? Are gun laws super lax there? I don't know. I just don't think it unreasonable to not allow someone with his background to legally own a gun. Mental illness or not.

[Deleted]

Jul 26, 2014 10:37:43 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

Jul 26, 2014 9:32:42 GMT -5 @spenjamins said:

We have a metal detector at my office. But it is kind of a joke. I can certainly see why a psychiatrist would carry a gun. 

I absolutely can see why as well.

What do you mean by it's a joke, the metal detector? Just curious.

Just that security is a joke in our building in general.  The metal detector is used but stuff can easily get through.  Or people go out for a smoke and just walk back in...

[cinnamoncox]

Jul 26, 2014 11:03:23 GMT -5 @spenjamins said:

Jul 26, 2014 10:37:43 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

I absolutely can see why as well.

What do you mean by it's a joke, the metal detector? Just curious.

Just that security is a joke in our building in general.  The metal detector is used but stuff can easily get through.  Or people go out for a smoke and just walk back in...

Oh yikes, that's a bit unsettling.

[auntie]

STEPHANIE FARR, DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER [e-mail], 215-854-4225
POSTED: Sunday, July 27, 2014, 3:01 AM


NOTHING WAS GOING to stop Richard Plotts from carrying a gun.

Not the law, not his felony record, not his questionable mental health and certainly not a sign.

Plotts, who shot and killed his caseworker and shot his doctor at a Delaware County hospital campus Thursday, may have done so because he was offended by the hospital's policy against guns, Delaware County District Attorney Jack Whelan said.

"There's evidence that he took offense to the issue that there were signs posted at Mercy Fitzgerald Health System indicating that it was a gun-free zone," Whelan said. "That's the only motive we have been able to determine at this point in time . . . he was upset about that policy."

And, if not for an armed doctor and two other brave staffers who subdued him, Plotts may have claimed many more lives with the 39 extra bullets he had in his pocket, according to prosecutors.

"We believe he was there and he was going to reload that revolver and continue to fire and continue to kill," Whelan said.

The incident that shook Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital's campus, which spans both Darby and Yeadon boroughs, began about 1:30 p.m. when Plotts, 49, showed up an hour early to his appointment with psychiatrist Lee Silverman at the Sister Marie Lenahan Mercy Wellness Center, across the street from the main hospital.

Silverman called Plotts' caseworker, Theresa Hunt, 53, of Philadelphia, to join the two in his office, which was common practice, Whelan said.

Plotts was allegedly agitated during the meeting and would not sit. After a brief rant, he pulled a .32-caliber revolver from his waistband, Whelan said.

"What happened next was horrible," he said. "Mr. Plotts took the gun, pointed it directly at Ms. [Hunt] and fired into her head. . . . That bullet went right into her brain and we believe it was instant death at that point."

A "panic-stricken" Silverman crouched behind his chair, reached into his pocket and pulled out a .32-caliber semiautomatic handgun, for which he had a concealed-carry license.

"The doctor indicated that he pointed his gun toward Mr. Plotts and fired until it was empty, not knowing whether he hit Plotts," Whelan said.

Three of Silverman's shots hit Plotts - two in the torso and one in the arm - but it didn't seem to stop him, Whelan said. Plotts was able to get off at least one shot at the doctor, who was hit in the thumb and suffered a graze wound to his face as he tried to cover it with his hand, police said.

A caseworker who was waiting in the office's lobby, John D'Alanzo, climbed through a lobby window, went into the room and wrestled Plotts to the floor with help from another doctor, Jeffrey Dekret, who secured Plotts' firearm.

Whelan called the actions of the three men "heroic."

Hunt was pronounced dead on the scene. Silverman and Plotts were taken to the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania. Silverman was treated for his injuries and released. Plotts remains hospitalized and under sedation, although he is expected to recover.

When he does, he will be charged with murder, attempted murder and related offenses, Whelan said.

Plotts, who is a convicted felon, is prohibited by law from owning a weapon. Whelan said investigators are still tracking where the gun Plotts used came from and how he obtained it.

Plotts' criminal history dates back to 1990, when he was twice arrested in Philadelphia for carrying a firearm without a license. In 1992 he was convicted of simple assault and forgery, but it was a 1996 conviction for a federal bank robbery that made him ineligible to own a weapon ever again, according to prosecutors.

But that didn't stop Plotts. In 2003, he was convicted of another gun violation in Delaware County.

In 2010 and 2013, Upper Darby police involuntary committed Plotts for mental-health issues and suicide attempts.

Plotts was so violent that he'd even been banned from the Life Center of Eastern Delaware County, an emergency homeless shelter, according to Upper Darby Police Superintendent Michael Chitwood.

"It's tough when you're barred from the shelters," Chitwood said. "They'll take anybody."

Despite his mental-health history, which authorities have not detailed, Plotts was "oriented to reality" during Thursday's shooting, Whelan said.

"I believe that he understood right from wrong and I don't believe that he was suffering from a mental illness that would prevent him from understanding what he was doing," Whelan said.

As for Silverman, Whelan said that he believed it was the doctor's practice to carry a gun for self-protection and that he was in compliance with all state laws.

A Mercy Fitzgerald Health Systems spokesman said Thursday it was against hospital policy for anyone other than "on-duty law enforcement" to carry weapons but a subsequent statement from a Mercy spokeswoman yesterday said, "We look forward to Dr. Silverman's return to serving patients at our hospital."

Silverman had been working on-and-off with Plotts over the last 20 years. It's unknown how long Hunt had been Plotts' caseworker.

Hunt's sister, Audrey Jane Hunt, posted this to Facebook yesterday:

"Wow now to go on without you Theresa my heart aches I can't call or visit," she wrote. "She wasn't selfish and made me laugh and I embarrassed her to no end I love you and now you are with Mommy and Gary."


Read more at www.philly.com/philly/news/20140727_D_A___Gunman_was_offended_by_hospital_s__gun-free__policy.html#KpQOkcx7P0FKthEW.99

[MixedBerryJam]

Jul 24, 2014 18:29:14 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Jul 24, 2014 17:52:49 GMT -5 mala said:

Why did the doctor have a gun?

Cause he's a good guy with a gun?

No, seriously, they think it was just his own gun that he was carrying. 

He was already described thusly on my local talk radio!