"She Said She Was Pregnant...and I Shot Her Anyway"

[simplyinpenguin]

:?

www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/24/80-year-old-man-says-fatally-shot-fleeing-burglar-despite-her-plea-that-was/



LOS ANGELES – An 80-year-old man says he shot and killed a fleeing woman whom he had caught burglarizing his home, despite her plea that she was pregnant.

"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant — I'm going to have a baby,' and I shot her anyway," Tom Greer told KNBC-TV.

Greer said he walked in on the woman and a man who had broken into his house in Long Beach on Tuesday night.

The pair tackled him, Greer said, then continued ransacking the house, breaking into a safe while he watched.

He said he was able to get to his gun, a .22-caliber revolver, and the pair ran when he showed it to them.

He said he tried to shoot both of them but was only able to hit the woman.

"The lady didn't run as fast as the man, so I shot her in the back twice," Greer said. "She's dead ... but he got away."

He spoke to the TV station outside his house while wearing a sling for a shoulder injury he suffered in the struggle.

Deputy Police Chief David Hendricks confirmed at a news conference Wednesday that the man shot and killed the woman after apparently interrupting a crime in progress. It was not immediately clear whether any charges would be filed against Greer. Police planned to hold another news conference Thursday evening.

The Los Angeles County coroner was performing an autopsy and would confirm if the woman was pregnant, the Long Beach Press-Telegram reported.
 









 

[msmerymac]

I saw this on FB (news site FB page) the other day. And of course people were saying, "I would have done it too!" or "He had a right to, she was breaking in!" or "If you say you wouldn't shoot someone who was breaking into your house, you're a lying liar who lies."

So pretty much one of those things that causes me to lose more faith in humanity.

[katfco]

So if she asked him not to shoot her, does that mean she'd been disarmed/had surrendered? And he shot her?
There's so much wrong here.

[elleblue]

Jul 24, 2014 20:46:35 GMT -5 katfco said:

So if she asked him not to shoot her, does that mean she'd been disarmed/had surrendered? And he shot her?
There's so much wrong here.

Sounds like she was running away since he shot her in the back.

Since when are things worth more than someone's life? I truly hate people sometimes.

[NewOrleans]

You know I'm a gun hater. But I can probably live with this one.

It might be intriguing to see if tthe anti choicers and gunnies duke this out.

[Miss Phryne Fisher]

Jul 24, 2014 20:59:14 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

You know I'm a gun hater. But I can probably live with this one.

It might be intriguing to see if tthe anti choicers and gunnies duke this out.

If my family is any indication, they are the same people. This should be interesting. 

[elleblue]

Jul 24, 2014 20:58:35 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Jul 24, 2014 20:55:02 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

Jesus. I'd shoot her too. the two of them broke in, ransacking his house, physically attacked him when he came home, and then made him sit there while they plowed through his things? Wahhhh. Don't assault people and maybe they won't have to defend themselves.

Christ. They were running away. Shooting someone in the back with the intent to kill? That's a serious problem. The law actually doesn't agree with you, by the way, depending on whether they had left his property. If they left and he followed them out and shot them, he is criminally liable. 

Indeed. This is in CA, not Florida - so no bs stand your ground laws, only normal right to defend yourself stuff. Shooting someone in the back shouldn't qualify. Thank God.

[NewOrleans]

Jul 24, 2014 20:58:35 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Jul 24, 2014 20:55:02 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

Jesus. I'd shoot her too. the two of them broke in, ransacking his house, physically attacked him when he came home, and then made him sit there while they plowed through his things? Wahhhh. Don't assault people and maybe they won't have to defend themselves.

Christ. They were running away. Shooting someone in the back with the intent to kill? That's a serious problem. The law actually doesn't agree with you, by the way, depending on whether they had left his property. If they left and he followed them out and shot them, he is criminally liable. 

I can see that. I can also see that he was a witness to a crime and May have felt endangered by that knowledge should they come back.

[gpw]

Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and sit next to NewOrleans.

[ttt]

I don't know. I mean, shooting someone in the back....on the other hand, assaulting an 80 year old man in his own house....

[elleblue]

Jul 24, 2014 21:17:44 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

I think California does have the stand your ground defense, but that isn't what applies here anyway. This is self defense during a burglary and physical assault which makes it reasonable for him to fear for his life or safety, even if his gun scared them into stopping for a minute. If he'd clicked the trigger and nothing happened, do you think they would have run off? Of course not.

California has a stand your ground defense, but there is no stand your ground law. We do have the Castle.Doctrine, but that's different. More info here. 

[sandsonik]

Jul 24, 2014 20:59:08 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Jul 24, 2014 20:46:35 GMT -5 katfco said:

So if she asked him not to shoot her, does that mean she'd been disarmed/had surrendered? And he shot her?
There's so much wrong here.

Sounds like she was running away since he shot her in the back.

Since when are things worth more than someone's life? I truly hate people sometimes.

Have you ever been broken into? More than once?  I have.

It's not just "things" that are taken from you. It's peace of mind and the ability to ever really feel safe again in your own home.   Actually, the things that are taken from you are nothing compared to the violation you feel and the mistrust you start to feel for strangers.

I don't agree with shooting a fleeing person in the back but who knows how one might react? The mind isn't always clear when you're extremely frightened, and who's to say the thieves weren't going to get their own weapons or weren't going to come back and get him later. Besides, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  It's a risk they took when they broke into someone's house.

And God knows, the police never, ever catch them, so I can understand feeling like "if I let them go, they're gone forever".

[starlily]

Jul 24, 2014 20:46:35 GMT -5 katfco said:

So if she asked him not to shoot her, does that mean she'd been disarmed/had surrendered? And he shot her?
There's so much wrong here.

She was unarmed. And IIRC from watching the clip on the local news station he talked to, she was already on the ground after the first shot hit her in the back, which is when she made her plea, and then he shot her again.

[elleblue]

Jul 24, 2014 22:39:11 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

Jul 24, 2014 20:59:08 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Sounds like she was running away since he shot her in the back.

Since when are things worth more than someone's life? I truly hate people sometimes.

Have you ever been broken into? More than once?  I have.

It's not just "things" that are taken from you. It's peace of mind and the ability to ever really feel safe again in your own home.   Actually, the things that are taken from you are nothing compared to the violation you feel and the mistrust you start to feel for strangers.

I don't agree with shooting a fleeing person in the back but who knows how one might react? The mind isn't always clear when you're extremely frightened, and who's to say the thieves weren't going to get their own weapons or weren't going to come back and get him later. Besides, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  It's a risk they took when they broke into someone's house.

And God knows, the police never, ever catch them, so I can understand feeling like "if I let them go, they're gone forever".

I don't disagree that it's impossible to predict how one will react until one is in that situation. My comment about valuing things over people was more in response to the direct quotes by the homeowner in the article. Specifically that she didn't run as fast as the male burglar, so he shot her and that she said she was pregnant but he shot her anyway. Those comments sound more retaliatory, there's nothing about feeling physically threatened in those quotes. 

Obviously it's not up to me to decide, so it's a moot point anyway. But I will say I am very uncomfortable with people thinking it's okay for citizens to shoot (unarmed) others in the back. 

[Deleted]

At the end of the day, this one is a wash for me. This coupled entered old dude's home, ransacked his shit, and then bumrushed him when he interrupted their shit. I do not believe they would have let him be if he didn't have a gun.

But then old dude shoots her in the back no less, has a short conversation with her and shoots her again. So he's not getting my sympathy either.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. She got shot which is what can happen when you fuck with people and he's going to jail for shooting someone once they are down and defenseless. At least I hope he will but he's like 80 so there's a good chance he'll stroke out while on house arrest.

I know I should feel bad that she was (claiming to be) pregnant but I notice she wasn't too pregnant to get hostile with an old man. We tend to give special consideration to babies and the elderly (sorry, IIOY). She didn't care about those rules until it was her life on the line.

[elleblue]

Jul 24, 2014 22:59:50 GMT -5 starlily said:

Jul 24, 2014 20:46:35 GMT -5 katfco said:

So if she asked him not to shoot her, does that mean she'd been disarmed/had surrendered? And he shot her?
There's so much wrong here.

She was unarmed. And IIRC from watching the clip on the local news station he talked to, she was already on the ground after the first shot hit her in the back, which is when she made her plea, and then he shot her again.

 Can't say I'm not curious about the race of all those involved, just like asdfjkl. 

[Deleted]

Oh and that's not to say I think she deserved to be shot to death, particularly by some homeowner who might have been playing judge, jury, and executioner. Only that getting shot is a foreseeable consequence of breaking into someone's house and assaulting them. Kind of how no one deserves to get hit by a car but cross against traffic at night in dark clothes and see how well that goes for you.

[Deleted]

Btw, he shot her in an alleyway, not even in his house as far as I can tell and he doesn't regret her death in the least. So yeah, I hope they throw his old ass in jail. He's spry for 80, I will say that. They fucked up his shoulder and collarbone and he still went after them.

[starlily]

Jul 24, 2014 23:17:20 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Jul 24, 2014 22:59:50 GMT -5 starlily said:

She was unarmed. And IIRC from watching the clip on the local news station he talked to, she was already on the ground after the first shot hit her in the back, which is when she made her plea, and then he shot her again.

 Can't say I'm not curious about the race of all those involved, just like asdfjkl. 

Homeowner is white. They didn't mention the race of either burglar.

[Deleted]

And just in case you aren't tired of my posts, everyone in this story was white.

www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/world/10310769/Man-shoots-dead-pregnant-woman

He says they've broken into his house before.

[sandsonik]

Jul 24, 2014 23:15:31 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Jul 24, 2014 22:39:11 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

Have you ever been broken into? More than once?  I have.

It's not just "things" that are taken from you. It's peace of mind and the ability to ever really feel safe again in your own home.   Actually, the things that are taken from you are nothing compared to the violation you feel and the mistrust you start to feel for strangers.

I don't agree with shooting a fleeing person in the back but who knows how one might react? The mind isn't always clear when you're extremely frightened, and who's to say the thieves weren't going to get their own weapons or weren't going to come back and get him later. Besides, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  It's a risk they took when they broke into someone's house.

And God knows, the police never, ever catch them, so I can understand feeling like "if I let them go, they're gone forever".

I don't disagree that it's impossible to predict how one will react until one is in that situation. My comment about valuing things over people was more in response to the direct quotes by the homeowner in the article. Specifically that she didn't run as fast as the male burglar, so he shot her and that she said she was pregnant but he shot her anyway. Those comments sound more retaliatory, there's nothing about feeling physically threatened in those quotes. 

Obviously it's not up to me to decide, so it's a moot point anyway. But I will say I am very uncomfortable with people thinking it's okay for citizens to shoot (unarmed) others in the back. 

You know, if these thieves had just ran out the door when the guy came home, then I would think he was definitely being retaliatory.

The fact that they hung around and kept stealing from him is really weird and would freak me right the fuck out if I were him.  Their utter lack of fear would terrify me.

I dunno, I've usually taken your side in this argument but I'm just tired of trying to feel sympathy for those who have no problem victimizing others.  

Odd, but if this was about a rapist or a child molester, this board would have no problem cheering on a retaliation. 

[sandsonik]

Jul 24, 2014 22:59:50 GMT -5 starlily said:

Jul 24, 2014 20:46:35 GMT -5 katfco said:

So if she asked him not to shoot her, does that mean she'd been disarmed/had surrendered? And he shot her?
There's so much wrong here.

She was unarmed. And IIRC from watching the clip on the local news station he talked to, she was already on the ground after the first shot hit her in the back, which is when she made her plea, and then he shot her again.

Yeah, if that's true....ugh. I take it all back!

[elleblue]

Jul 25, 2014 0:16:47 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

Jul 24, 2014 23:15:31 GMT -5 elleblue said:

I don't disagree that it's impossible to predict how one will react until one is in that situation. My comment about valuing things over people was more in response to the direct quotes by the homeowner in the article. Specifically that she didn't run as fast as the male burglar, so he shot her and that she said she was pregnant but he shot her anyway. Those comments sound more retaliatory, there's nothing about feeling physically threatened in those quotes. 

Obviously it's not up to me to decide, so it's a moot point anyway. But I will say I am very uncomfortable with people thinking it's okay for citizens to shoot (unarmed) others in the back. 

You know, if these thieved had just ran out the door when the guy came home, then I would think he was definitely being retaliatory.

The fact that they hung around and kept stealing from him is really weird and would freak me right the fuck out if I were him.  Their utter lack of fear would terrify me.

I dunno, I've usually taken your side in this argument but I'm just tired of trying to feel sympathy for those who have no problem victimizing others.  

Odd, but if this was about a rapist or a child molester, this board would have no problem cheering on a retaliation. 

I can only speak for myself but I've never cheered on vigilantism.

Well, except for Dexter. But that was a tv show and all that.  

And look, I don't have excessive sympathy for the burglars. As @helenabonhamcarter said, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. But I do think chasing them into the alley and shooting the (unarmed) woman in the back a second time, after she spoke to him no less, is a lot closer to an execution than self defense. That's just something I'm not comfortable with. And from what I understand of the laws in CA, using deadly force under those circumstances is prosecutable. Will he be? No idea. He's 80 years old so the DA may decide not to pursue it. But I hope they do. I also hope the male burglar is caught and prosecuted for his crime too. 

[elleblue]

Jul 25, 2014 0:19:10 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

Jul 24, 2014 22:59:50 GMT -5 starlily said:

She was unarmed. And IIRC from watching the clip on the local news station he talked to, she was already on the ground after the first shot hit her in the back, which is when she made her plea, and then he shot her again.

Yeah, if that's true....ugh. I take it all back!

Here's another article that has his quotes. This is where my feelings of his actions being more retaliatory than out of fear or in self defense came from. 

[phunluvin82]

Jul 25, 2014 0:34:29 GMT -5 elleblue said:

Jul 25, 2014 0:16:47 GMT -5 sandsonik said:

You know, if these thieved had just ran out the door when the guy came home, then I would think he was definitely being retaliatory.

The fact that they hung around and kept stealing from him is really weird and would freak me right the fuck out if I were him.  Their utter lack of fear would terrify me.

I dunno, I've usually taken your side in this argument but I'm just tired of trying to feel sympathy for those who have no problem victimizing others.  

Odd, but if this was about a rapist or a child molester, this board would have no problem cheering on a retaliation. 

I can only speak for myself but I've never cheered on vigilantism.

Well, except for Dexter. But that was a tv show and all that.  

And look, I don't have excessive sympathy for the burglars. As @helenabonhamcarter said, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. But I do think chasing them into the alley and shooting the (unarmed) woman in the back a second time, after she spoke to him no less, is a lot closer to an execution than self defense. That's just something I'm not comfortable with. And from what I understand of the laws in CA, using deadly force under those circumstances is prosecutable. Will he be? No idea. He's 80 years old so the DA may decide not to pursue it. But I hope they do. I also hope the male burglar is caught and prosecuted for his crime too. 

This.

Does this remind anyone of that pharmacy robbery a few years ago?  Where the guy shot the kid, then went and got another gun while he was already down and shot him a few more times for good measure...and claimed self defense.  I remember there being a lot of heated debate around that case...I think they did charge that guy with murder IIRC.

[mrsukyankee]

I'm okay with him shooting her once. I get the fear. She was down, he could have called the police and they would have hauled her to jail (after a stop to the hospital). But shooting to kill her after she's down? Nope, not cool. Especially as she didn't have a gun.

[simplyinpenguin]

Apparently they did catch the other burglar and charged him on the suspicion of murder for the actions that led to her death. Prosecutors are going to decide Friday whether or not to file charges against the 80 year old.

news.msn.com/crime-justice/man-says-he-shot-burglar-who-said-she-was-pregnant

[omgzombies]

Jul 25, 2014 1:48:27 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

I'm okay with him shooting her once. I get the fear. She was down, he could have called the police and they would have hauled her to jail (after a stop to the hospital). But shooting to kill her after she's down? Nope, not cool. Especially as she didn't have a gun.

This is where I stand.  I can understand the fear, the adrenaline that comes with pursuit, wanting to catch the people who have just robbed your house.  Once she's down you call the cops though, and my opinion has nothing to do with whether she was pregnant or not, for me that piece of information doesn't make a difference in this context.  

And as the other poster pointed out, yes, my opinion would be different if it was a rapist or child molester/abuser.  ::Shrug:: those two crimes are on a different level for me, and both evolve emotion that goes far beyond having your house broken into.  Signed, someone who has come home to an active burglary in my home, and still has nightmares about it.

[Saint Monica]

Maybe he was done being scared by the time he was interviewed and in the stage of angry about being violated (apparently more than once). It makes him less sympathetic when being interviewed but HE (old man) went through a trauma too.
Was she telling the truth about being pregnant?

[josieposy]

Why anyone would ever consider breaking into houses while the people in this country are so fucking tense is beyond me.