Fuuuuuuuuck, you guys! I have to be up WAY too early!
And in what world do we not teach, and then hold accountable, students how to properly cite research to avoid plagiarism? Christ on a cracker.
C'mon--it was totes just a kiddie science project! It's not like she claimed to multiple media outlets that she came up with this totally original theory ALL BY HERSELF!
Aha! This is EXACTLY my point. You have no idea how science works. Dr. Jud published his idea. His idea was p-u-b-l-i-s-h-e-d. For years (a couple). He was dying for people to appropriate his idea. But no one did. And then a 12-year-old does a similar study and he gets pissed off because he could really use that kind of exposure.
He's a douche bag and I hope that I've explained to you why Zack Jud is a whiny douche bag.
I certainly understand how science works, I have a PhD in a scientific field. Correcting news stories claiming that your published work doesn't exist most definitely does not make someone a "douche bag". Calling him one for a totally reasonable action kind of makes you one though.
Actually, I think whining about how a 12-year-old's science fair project has totally eclipsed one's published study and then to publically agonize about how to steal some of her thunder? I think that's pretty much the definition of a "douche bag."
Here's another word to spell: c-i-t-a-t-i-o-n-s. I teach it over and over again to my high school juniors and seniors every year. It's fine (in fact, it's expected) that academic research at all levels will not be wholly original, but will rather build upon the ideas of those who have published in your field of study before you ever thought to study it. Plagiarism and academic dishonesty come into play when you fail to give credit to those earlier authors and researchers. There's a very clear line here, and you're unsuccessfully trying to kick sand over it.
Agreed. A professional scientist would not be a scholar if she didn't cite prior work. I assert that is a ridiculous standard to apply to a 12-year-old's science fair project. No one has disagreed yet although that's fine if you do. (I don't mind if you're wrong).
You think it's a ridiculous standard to expect a 12 year old to appropriately cite research?
She passed off his ideas as her own. I don't give a flying rip who does this with my work (yes, I have a PhD as well) - it's wrong, and it should not be glossed over and tolerated because "Oh, they're 12."
Here's another word to spell: c-i-t-a-t-i-o-n-s. I teach it over and over again to my high school juniors and seniors every year. It's fine (in fact, it's expected) that academic research at all levels will not be wholly original, but will rather build upon the ideas of those who have published in your field of study before you ever thought to study it. Plagiarism and academic dishonesty come into play when you fail to give credit to those earlier authors and researchers. There's a very clear line here, and you're unsuccessfully trying to kick sand over it.
Agreed. A professional scientist would not be a scholar if she didn't cite prior work. I assert that is a ridiculous standard to apply to a 12-year-old's science fair project. No one has disagreed yet although that's fine if you do. (I don't mind if you're wrong).
I'll absolutely disagree with this. The very first thing young scientists learn is how to do a literature review (in fact, they even call that a "research paper" until they know better.)
Why would any parent be defending this shit? Especially one who knows (conceivably) the rules about such things? Whether or not that other guy is a dick is irrelevant. He could be a serial killer and that wouldn't change the fact that the student in question didn't give credit where credit was due.
So, if what the dad had the daughter do was so not a big deal, then why didn't the dad just have the daughter knock off his own research that hadn't gotten a lot if traction? Surely he had his own research topic that nobody was really talking about? I mean, he wouldn't have minded if his daughter took credit for all that work, right? The topic getting attention is all that matters, right?
I think the attention was a complete fluke. I've admitted the dad was a dick but I seriously doubt this was all part of his brilliant and evil scheme to embarrass Jud. The dad was a dick not to insist on citing Jud (apparently, if you mention the first author's name, it has to be FOUR times or else you're a jerk).
But Jud is a sniveling asshat. Really? Complaining about a kid's science fair project?
I certainly understand how science works, I have a PhD in a scientific field. Correcting news stories claiming that your published work doesn't exist most definitely does not make someone a "douche bag". Calling him one for a totally reasonable action kind of makes you one though.
Actually, I think whining about how a 12-year-old's science fair project has totally eclipsed one's published study and then to publically agonize about how to steal some of her thunder? I think that's pretty much the definition of a "douche bag."
However, +1 for you for your ad hominem attack.
When a 12-year old's science fair project gets media attention and you are told you don't exist...I think that is a pretty legitimate reason. Regardless at 12 you should be able to properly cite things, or hell, not even properly - just cite them. Considering college students have issues with plagiarism I would say that this issue isn't brought up early enough.
I certainly understand how science works, I have a PhD in a scientific field. Correcting news stories claiming that your published work doesn't exist most definitely does not make someone a "douche bag". Calling him one for a totally reasonable action kind of makes you one though.
Actually, I think whining about how a 12-year-old's science fair project has totally eclipsed one's published study and then to publically agonize about how to steal some of her thunder? I think that's pretty much the definition of a "douche bag."
However, +1 for you for your ad hominem attack.
Is this really want to teach your daughter? That when someone stands up for their research you get to attack them on the internet? Because you're butthurt that she's not being seen as the completely 100% genius that thought all this up?
Really? I mean... really. That's what you want to teach her. How to be a bully to someone who stands up for themselves. Bravo. Stellar parenting there.
Why would any parent be defending this shit? Especially one who knows (conceivably) the rules about such things? Whether or not that other guy is a dick is irrelevant. He could be a serial killer and that wouldn't change the fact that the student in question didn't give credit where credit was due.
And being a bully about it. If he's doing this shit on a random internet board, can you imagine what he's saying at home?
So, if what the dad had the daughter do was so not a big deal, then why didn't the dad just have the daughter knock off his own research that hadn't gotten a lot if traction? Surely he had his own research topic that nobody was really talking about? I mean, he wouldn't have minded if his daughter took credit for all that work, right? The topic getting attention is all that matters, right?
I think the attention was a complete fluke. I've admitted the dad was a dick but I seriously doubt this was all part of his brilliant and evil scheme to embarrass Jud. The dad was a dick not to insist on citing Jud (apparently, if you mention the first author's name, it has to be FOUR times or else you're a jerk).
But Jud is a sniveling asshat. Really? Complaining about a kid's science fair project?
And you're an idiot for thinking what he's doing is complaining about a science fair project. He's holding g this girl accountable for her OBVIOUS plagiarism.
Because his research elicited no interest from the wider world and then when a 12-year-old did a similar science experiment (that lead to the same conclusion about lionfish and salinity) he whined about it on FB?
Anyway, that makes him a "douche bag" in my book.
He isn't complaining that a 12-year old did a similar experiment. He is complaining that she claimed his research didn't exist.
This. Saying "I heard about Jud's research on lionfish, so I decided to see how far they could go with fresh water salinity" is WAY different from "No one has EVER looked at lionfish in freshwater before."
Again, though, to be fair, I also love this cartoon and find it so true (I can't figure out how to embed it)
I think the attention was a complete fluke. I've admitted the dad was a dick but I seriously doubt this was all part of his brilliant and evil scheme to embarrass Jud. The dad was a dick not to insist on citing Jud (apparently, if you mention the first author's name, it has to be FOUR times or else you're a jerk).
But Jud is a sniveling asshat. Really? Complaining about a kid's science fair project?
He's not complaining about her project. He's complaining about not having his ideas and research properly credited. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Would you really sit back and say nothing if someone ripped off your ideas and went public with it?
Why would any parent be defending this shit? Especially one who knows (conceivably) the rules about such things? Whether or not that other guy is a dick is irrelevant. He could be a serial killer and that wouldn't change the fact that the student in question didn't give credit where credit was due.
And being a bully about it. If he's doing this shit on a random internet board, can you imagine what he's saying at home?
If I didn't know better, I'd think this was happening at my school. No joke. My blood pressure is up.
Here's another word to spell: c-i-t-a-t-i-o-n-s. I teach it over and over again to my high school juniors and seniors every year. It's fine (in fact, it's expected) that academic research at all levels will not be wholly original, but will rather build upon the ideas of those who have published in your field of study before you ever thought to study it. Plagiarism and academic dishonesty come into play when you fail to give credit to those earlier authors and researchers. There's a very clear line here, and you're unsuccessfully trying to kick sand over it.
Agreed. A professional scientist would not be a scholar if she didn't cite prior work. I assert that is a ridiculous standard to apply to a 12-year-old's science fair project. No one has disagreed yet although that's fine if you do. (I don't mind if you're wrong).
God I hardly know where to begin here. First of all, you seem to assert that none of us know that "plagiarism" is. I am not sure you know what "science" is. The practice of advancing knowledge through the scientific process is first to acknowledge what work forms the basis of your own. And that involves referencing existing findings. You even seem to concede that. Why - WHY - is this not appropriate for a 12 year old's SCIENCE fair project? Does the scientific process only kick in upon age of majority? Or college? Or grad school? Until then is it reasonable to assume that every observation made by a kid must be wholly original? Would you let your 12 year old drop a penny into a fountain and proclaim "holy shit I discovered gravity!"? Of course not. It's a science fair - the ENTIRE point of the exercise is to judge original scientific work, or at least work one legitimately has reason to believe IS original. This kid had no basis to believe that as her dad spoon fed her the project. Which, incidentally, sounds like it was pretty cool and had it been positioned with honesty and scientific integrity, may well have earned her the same outcome (third place) without the drama and ignominy she now must shoulder. Way to go, dad.
Second, what kind of an axe you have to grind over Dr. Jud, there are certain realities of being a research scientist that are simply fact - not whining, not an "agenda", not being "a baby." Original scientific insight is the ONLY commodity that matters to a scientist and the ONLY work product taken in to consideration when getting a job, a promotion, or published. To have YOUR original observation brought to wide media attention - lauded for its insight and value ONLY when brought to light by a 12 year old child whose parents seemingly had no trouble either planting the seed or simply not clarifying that "her" observations really were not wholly hers - well that is frankly just shitty. Dr. Jud never said a cross word about the child - only the situation. For that he (a) had every right and (b) had an obligation to the scientific process, the published work, and himself to set the record straight.
-Signed, also a scientist with a real Ph.D., postdoctoral work, and several original scientific publications in top tier journals.
Why would any parent be defending this shit? Especially one who knows (conceivably) the rules about such things? Whether or not that other guy is a dick is irrelevant. He could be a serial killer and that wouldn't change the fact that the student in question didn't give credit where credit was due.
Maybe I wasn't clear. How do you know that the daughter had any knowledge of Jud's research? Because there's just the outside chance that she didn't have a subscription to Aquatic Biology because, since she's 12, her subscription won't start until 2020.
So, by "the father's a dick" I'm saying, that he probably knew about Jud's research and should have done more (I don't know what, we don't actually KNOW that the 12-year-old didn't cite Jud, but I'm willing to believe she didn't) but the idea that the 12-year-old plagiarized is silly.
But Jud is a sniveling asshat. Really? Complaining about a kid's science fair project?
He's not complaining about her project. He's complaining about not having his ideas and research properly credited. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Would you really sit back and say nothing if someone ripped off your ideas and went public with it?
Clearly there is an age cut off where it is ok to steal ideas and you just have to STFU, because kids will be kids and all
Edit: idea totally not stolen from asdfjkl, but I will cite her has having published while I was still completing my post.
Actually, I think whining about how a 12-year-old's science fair project has totally eclipsed one's published study and then to publically agonize about how to steal some of her thunder? I think that's pretty much the definition of a "douche bag."
However, +1 for you for your ad hominem attack.
Is this really want to teach your daughter? That when someone stands up for their research you get to attack them on the internet? Because you're butthurt that she's not being seen as the completely 100% genius that thought all this up?
Really? I mean... really. That's what you want to teach her. How to be a bully to someone who stands up for themselves. Bravo. Stellar parenting there.
Could you explain how he "stood up for his research?" Because I say he was jealous of someone else's (a kid's).
Remember, his research had already been published (and ignored). he was upset because a little girl was getting HIS attention. That is pathetic.
I know you're pissed off and it's your mission this evening to demonize me, but you are pathetic for defending him.