Post by DirtySouth on Jul 28, 2014 16:15:42 GMT -5
I like this article and posted it to Facebook. Do what you love and the money will follow is absolutely terrible advice, and I wish more college students understood the trade offs that go along with certain degrees and types of work. The "hobby vs. career" issue is a big part of what ended my marriage. It's one thing if a person can accept the lifestyle trade offs that come along with pursuing a passion, but I think most young people don't truly understand these trade offs. As my ex (a sports writer who has earned around $30k for the past seven years) got older, he wanted what most people want in their 30's - the vacations, eating out, the nice house, kids - but wouldn't make any career changes to contribute to these. So all of the pressure to provide these fell on me - the one who would have loved to major in music but did not out of concern over ability to pay the bills.
Post by downtoearth on Jul 28, 2014 16:26:43 GMT -5
I really like your intro.
This quote from the article is exactly is how I always tell my DH I feel... “It’s not just time for family. Women want meaning and purpose in their work. They value great colleagues. They also like to give back to society in terms of the work they do, some healing of the planet, and they want flexibility, which is not the same as family stuff—it’s so that they can have a life,” said Hewlett. “Women have much more complex goals, but they also do want money and power. They recognize you’re likely to have much more control over your life if you have those.”
I feel a struggle between moving up in my company with more earning potential and leaving completely to do something way more flexible or creative or different. My DH doesn't view his job as a big thing in his life like I do. He sees his career/job as a means to an ends - money. I see mine as an extension of who I am and how I make the world a better place. I always say I'm too idealistic to make a ton of money, but maybe I just haven't come to terms with growing up yet or maybe I devalue my own work by taking less pay than I should like the author.
I had the holy grail of creative jobs for 7 years, decent salary, working in the arts, building and creating daily. You know what happened? It totally burned me out in that field.
I'm much happier now in a less creative position. Still in the arts but in an administrative role. I now have creative energy to devote to my hobbies and art instead of using it all up at work and being drained when I get home.
Ugh. I can't decide whether this makes me feel inspired or commiserative or more hopeless. I've strayed very far from where I started out of college. So far that at 43, I don't know how to find my way back to what I originally intended and still want to do--at least not without taking a ridiculous pay cut.
I do know that work-a-day corporate jobs are soul-sucking, miserable endeavors and I have to find a way out.
Hmm, all I can say is that within my circle of college friends, most have done what they loved and the money DID follow. Maybe it helps that we went to a pretty good art/architecture school? Also probably that student loan debt was much lower for those of us who went to college in the 80's. Not being saddled with debt meant we could take chances, and buy our first homes much earlier (in general).
Oh Emily Gould, I love her. I just read her new novel Friendship. I liked it a lot. It reminded me of an episode of HBO's Girls toned down in just the right ways. I hope she's making some money off of it. Enough to keep writing anyhow.
I spent 12 years in publishing. When 2008 happened, I survived layoffs, and endured pay freezes and pay cuts. I had enough. I switched to a very uncreative job in advertising.
It pays more, and is infinitely less stress. I now have the house and the baby. But most days I feel like I'm using maybe 10% of my potential.
I spent 12 years in publishing. When 2008 happened, I survived layoffs, and endured pay freezes and pay cuts. I had enough. I switched to a very uncreative job in advertising.
It pays more, and is infinitely less stress. I now have the house and the baby. But most days I feel like I'm using maybe 10% of my potential.
Did you work as an editor? I've always thought that must be such a fun job (if you like what you're reading and working on, that is).
I understand the realities of never actually using my degree literally. I fall firmly in the camp of my jobs is a means to an end. I just hate now when people judge me for "giving up too soon" or "not trying harder."
I spent 12 years in publishing. When 2008 happened, I survived layoffs, and endured pay freezes and pay cuts. I had enough. I switched to a very uncreative job in advertising.
It pays more, and is infinitely less stress. I now have the house and the baby. But most days I feel like I'm using maybe 10% of my potential.
Did you work as an editor? I've always thought that must be such a fun job (if you like what you're reading and working on, that is).
Yep. I'm still an editor, but it's a much different animal in this industry.
There were times when it really was fun (restaurant reviews? Yes, pleas), but in general it was always stressful because we never had the resources to do things properly. I wasn't working for Cosmo or Rolling Stone or anything, and budget was a big issue. I was putting out something like 40-something issues of 6? 7? different titles a year. There was just a lot of "oh, crap, how are we going to get this done when we can't pay anyone."
There were times when it really was fun (restaurant reviews? Yes, pleas), but in general it was always stressful because we never had the resources to do things properly....
This is where I am. I've survived layoffs but many of my colleagues haven't, and I'm doing their jobs now. My pay has not increased. I'm incredibly burned out. Morale is low for everyone, and management just wants more, more, more. More special projects. More web crossover. More digital content. Meanwhile, writing is suffering because everyone is so stressed, and there is less time to edit. Grrrrrrr
I used to LOVE my job. Now I constantly fantasize about quitting.
Do you work with me?
In my college journalism program, we were frequently warned that we weren't going to be making big bucks. But most of my classmates (the first wave of speshul snowflakes) believed that they were so talented they would be the exception. Or that their family would keep subsidizing them after college. Or both.
Me? I thought I'd eke out a better-than-average living, because I was so much stronger in journalism than I was in any other subject. Now, I'm trying to get out of the business (yay for pay freezes since 2006, shitty benefits and low morale), but I'm hitting walls and drawing blanks. You'd think journalism is a more practical major than English, but I feel like between the two, it's a wash.
I understand the realities of never actually using my degree literally. I fall firmly in the camp of my jobs is a means to an end. I just hate now when people judge me for "giving up too soon" or "not trying harder."
So much this.
I got my 5 year architecture degree, worked for a semi-custom builder (which I loved), got laid off... never got my license and ended up in a related field, working for the government, and have no intention of getting my license. I stay in good contact with a couple of my professors and am constantly told that I gave up on the field, I'd be better off getting my license, etc. It's no help that my dad says this too any time we end up talking about my job.
Unemployment hit me hard-and I have to work really hard now to find ways to be creative and use that side of me, but I have a family to support and I just can't deal with the instability of going back to a design related field. I miss it dearly, and still do some stuff on the side occasionally, but I couldn't go back FT.
I guess I'm grateful I'm not a creative person? Lol. I hate my job too. Real estate investing is my passion. I love financials and analyzing deals and title work and all that. Right now being a lawyer (not in real estate - too far into my current area of expertise) allows me the income to buy an apartment building every few years. It's enough to keep me going for now I guess.
I have a degree in photography. I actually am very fortunate right now to have a job in my field - I am a photographer for a university. The main reason I went after this job was because this is the university my husband is doing grad school at, so we get a tuition break for him which is so helpful for us - I think we've saved $17,000 this year off his tuition, plus I have a decent salary. It's great. It also makes me feel very tied to this job - even from when I first started it and I was afraid I would hate it and then what? I don't hate it, fortunately, but it is a full-time job. I do get to be somewhat creative, but a lot of my job is not super creative. There are limits in what I can do - I can only really be creative in the ways that the school will allow. Now that I've been here longer I feel I can start pushing the boundaries more, but at the same time I've been here a while and it's also easy to just coast and do what is expected. I relate to this article still because even with my decent salary we cannot quite make ends meet without some student loans. I feel guilty, stressed, and am constantly trying to pick up freelance work on the side - weddings, portraits, events. This means I end up working constantly, which sucks. And we still don't have enough money to spend on something fun for myself. Right now I'm constantly thinking of some way to start selling my personal work as prints - it's just like what she talks about in this article. Also, in my experience, most creatives are really really crappy business people.
I have a good friend who is an actress/dancer up in NYC. She has been fairly successful, I'd say (been a Rockette, danced in touring shows.) We went and saw her last year in a production and got to talk to her afterward. She told me that it was the first show where she had actually felt like it was a job, coming to dance every night felt like work, and she seemed surprised and bummed about it - and it's because our generation has this awful idea that every aspect of your job should be exciting and fulfilling, and if it isn't you are wasting your life away and need to run off and find yourself. Too many creatives are out there saying "I can't believe they pay me to do this! I would do this job even if they didn't pay me!" and it skews everyone's expectations.
Post by runblondie26 on Jul 29, 2014 8:44:33 GMT -5
DH worked in a creative field for almost 10 years, then couldn't take it anymore for the reasons you've already stated. And he actually had what was considered a "good" job in publishing, by design standards. Many of his coworkers have completely left the industry as well.
Fortunately, he had other passions that led him into a better career path. He does design work on the side now for some extra $ and to keep his skills, but it's more of a hobby now.
Whenever DD talks about becoming a singer or painter when she grows up, DH and I just shoot each other a look, like "nope, not happening". Do those things as a hobby. Making it your job will take the joy out of it and you'll make no money. womp, womp Cynical, party of two over here.
My boss regularly laments about how he can never leave tech because the money is so so so good.
And it's true. We're all gonna be doing this forever b/c no one else will pay me this for the same work.
FTFY.
I've always been far too Vulcan for creative pursuits, so I never really had this dilemma. When Carl was little and asked what he wanted to be when he grew up, he famously answered, "rich".
Like @kcpokergirl I find my passion in problem solving. I've been at my company for what amounts to an eon in tech, and seen it grow from zilch to a pretty well-known and popular company. I've been heavily involved in some pretty fundamental parts of that. It's been exciting to clean up our messes and try to put on our big boy pants, even if it still ends up going down in a ball of flames.
This may be flammable but for me personally, procreating made me find purpose in my work. I was kind of biding my time before, it was something to do and paid the bills (and I'm not painting all childless women with that brush). When life got more full, I needed to inject more fullness into my work to get enough satisfaction for balance, if that makes sense. I had to find a reason to want to come back.
My boss regularly laments about how he can never leave tech because the money is so so so good.
And it's true. We're all gonna be doing this forever b/c no one else will pay me this for the same work.
FTFY.
I've always been far too Vulcan for creative pursuits, so I never really had this dilemma. When Carl was little and asked what he wanted to be when he grew up, he famously answered, "rich".
Word.
Carl was far more practical than my H who answered this question with "a monkey."
I sorta hate it when people confuse "creative" with artistic. You can be creative in any job in the world. I think the hot buzz word now is "innovative".
Anyways, having a good paying artistic-type job, I agree they are extremely hard to find unless you are willing to move to the big metropolitan areas. Even so, you may find yourself working for employers who want to just have contractors or use grant money to pay you. And then you are undermined A LOT because for some reason everyone thinks good design is something anyone can have a say on.
There is still much much left-brained work to my job, which frankly I love. I like being artsy but it takes something out of me, and I need to be in the mood for it. I could not do it 8 hours a day 7 days a week. I could not do daily defense for every artistic choice I make either.
I also agree that I hate using up all my right-brain at work and then I don't have any for my home life. My kid wants to make stuff with me, I wanna do stuff for our home, etc. I wanna get back to having dreams for projects be able to pursue them! Not just saying "that'll do for now I guess" and moving on.
3 of the 4 men who I have dated seriously in my life all had fine art degrees (including my DH, I must be attracted to a certain type). The least successful of the three still makes over 6 figures. The one thing they all have in common is that they all, first and foremost, are in the BUSINESS of creating art. Not one of them thinks they should be able to do a fun hobby everyday. While they love what they do, none of them loves it every minute of every day, but they willingly take care of the business aspects because that's the trade off for getting to do art at work. BTW, all three have very different occupations but each produces some sort of art every day.