prenuptial agreement?

[DirtySouth]

I'm a divorce attorney and not a fan of prenups. There are a number of reasons for this, including some of the most highly contested cases I've litigated involving prenputial agreements (and someone trying to get out of one). In a nutshell, I dislike prenups for two reasons. 1) It is nearly impossible to contemplate right now what would be a fair division of assets and support payment amount if you get divorced in 10 or 20 or 30 years and 2) State laws are carefully constructed to make division of assets and spousal support upon divorce equitable given the specific circumstances of your marriage. For example, in my state, in determining alimony the court looks at a number of factors, including the medical condition of the parties and contributions to the marriage. "Contributions to the marriage" is soooo broad - staying at home to raise kids, working in the other spouse's business without pay, things done by one spouse to further the career of the other spouse, etc. You have no idea today how the relationship will play out and how each party may or may not contribute, yet a prenup is trying to guess what would be fair years down the road for the issues of alimony and division of property. I've seen so many people get screwed because what they thought seemed fair 10 years ago turns out to be not so fair given the facts and circumstances of their marriage and divorce.

In almost all states there are very easy ways to protect an inheritance, gifts, and property owned prior to the marriage without needing a prenup. Meet with your lawyer to gain a full understanding of the laws in your state to determine division of assets and support in the absence of a prenup. Chances are your state has ways to make sure a divorce is equitable by taking into account very specific facts that played out during the marriage, which you couldn't possibly know today.

Disclaimer: None of this is legal advice. I don't know the laws of your state or all of the facts of your situation. This is just my overall, general opinion about prenuptial agreements, but you should seek legal counsel to talk about your specific state laws and your specific situation.

One more thing I want to throw out there. Family law attorneys piss me off with prenuptial agreements. 90% of the ones I see at the time of divorce were agreements that were absolutely unnecessary and aren't terribly beneficial (except perhaps screwing someone out of support or property they would be entitled to without the agreement), but attorneys want to collect a fee so will draft a prenup for anyone who asks for one. This is why I suggest you ask your lawyer about state law for divorce and gain an understanding of what happens if you don't have a prenup, and ask about ways to protect an inheritance or gift, before even telling the lawyer that you are seriously contemplating a prenup. I would approach it as asking for a consultation so you understand the best ways to hold and title property during the marriage to protect yourself. Chances are, once the lawyer explains how your state laws work, you won't even feel the need for a prenuptial agreement.

[acr]

My attorney strongly suggested I have one if I marry again. I have stake in family businesses and while Xh didn't have claim to them, I burned a fair amount of money and time in the divorce process while the attorneys traced the ownership. If I'd had a prenup, it would have been sufficient evidence.

[acr]

So that's to say - I care about protecting what I come into the marriage with...and saving myself the hassle of proving my separate property.

[gozf]

In my current relationship, we're Poor and Poorer so I don't think a prenup is necessary, were we to get married.

It'd go like this:

Me: Gimme all your comic books.
Him: oh yeah? Gimme all your liquid eyeliner.
Me: I'll kill you in your face!!!
Him: why is there so much eyeliner? Never mind. Let's saw our $400 couch in half now.

The end.

[lemon360]

My MIL is getting remarried and she is getting one. DH is a lawyer but not family law but he's been working with her lawyer on it so this has been a big topic of discussion in our house. In PA she needs one in order to leave her assets to her kids and not her new husband. They both have kids from first marriage. Also in PA there's automatic support for 2 year waiting period unless that is addressed. I think they waive the waiting period. I think also they are living in her house and if her house and if her retirement goes up in value he has a right to the increase. So that needs to be protected. He's selling his house so he wants to protect the proceeds and increase in value. I could be wrong but I don't think they are addressing property division except that they each keep their stuff. I think they are more focused on protecting in death than divorce.

It sounds like it depends on what state you are in. Dh said they are very enforceable in PA and very hard to get out of unless you can show fraud. They are popular in PA apparently, especially for second marriages. We don't have one, we were both broke when we married. I think if you have something you want to protect you should consider one.

[kanga1]

Jul 30, 2014 22:09:18 GMT -5 acr said:

My attorney strongly suggested I have one if I marry again. I have stake in family businesses and while Xh didn't have claim to them, I burned a fair amount of money and time in the divorce process while the attorneys traced the ownership. If I'd had a prenup, it would have been sufficient evidence.

Ugh I went through the same thing. All that time and money wasted just to prove what I DON'T have ownership in.

[Deleted]

I don't know too much about the specifics. As of now, there's not too much to worry about and I'm not getting married in the near future.  

I am thinking of buying a condo/house within the next few years.    It would most likely be totally my investment (when my mother sells her home, she plans to give me something).   If I'm not married at the time, it goes in my name.  Now...if bf and I are getting married at that time, I'm unsure of how I'd handle it.  Because if I'm the one putting the down payment...but we both contribute to mortgage....??  

[DirtySouth]

Jul 31, 2014 13:52:00 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

I don't know too much about the specifics. As of now, there's not too much to worry about and I'm not getting married in the near future.  

I am thinking of buying a condo/house within the next few years.    It would most likely be totally my investment (when my mother sells her home, she plans to give me something).   If I'm not married at the time, it goes in my name.  Now...if bf and I are getting married at that time, I'm unsure of how I'd handle it.  Because if I'm the one putting the down payment...but we both contribute to mortgage....??  

This is something your state law will address, so you would need to find out how your state law handles this.  Then you only need a prenup if you want to handle the division differently than your state's laws.

In my state, the equity would be partially marital and partially separate.  The percentage of equity attributed to your down payment remains yours, then the equity attributed to marital money paying the mortgage is marital (and then the marital portion gets divided between the two spouses).  Of course, other states can be completely different.  

[Deleted]

DirtySouth, say a married person were to get an inheritance from their parent, then they got divorced, is that money considered to belong to both spouses? Just curious--I realize it may vary from state to state.  

[DirtySouth]

Jul 31, 2014 14:08:13 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

DirtySouth, say a married person were to get an inheritance from their parent, then they got divorced, is that money considered to belong to both spouses? Just curious--I realize it may vary from state to state.  

In my state it stays separate property so long as you don't co-mingle it with marital assets or gift it to your spouse, but things like this can vary greatly by state.

[winecat]

Jul 31, 2014 14:33:31 GMT -5 chalupa said:

Jul 31, 2014 14:08:13 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

DirtySouth, say a married person were to get an inheritance from their parent, then they got divorced, is that money considered to belong to both spouses? Just curious--I realize it may vary from state to state.  

Not a lawyer, but I don't think there's a single state that considers inheirtances to be joint property, as long as the funds aren't comingled in a joint account.

Not a lawyer either, but here the commingling is key.  It happened in my case where a separate asset became a marital asset because a joint account was used.  

[winecat]

Jul 31, 2014 16:13:14 GMT -5 inara said:

Jul 31, 2014 13:00:16 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

I don't have kids but if I remarried someone who did and who wanted to make sure specific property and assets went to them I would have no problem signing a prenup.

W has zero issue with having one. He even told me I could put in a clause saying I get his portion if he cheated on me, after I joked that it was to protect me when he left me for his stripper girlfriend (ongoing joke because the girls get glitter EVERYWHERE and he always has random glitter in his beard by the end of the day).

So getting one isn't a problem, we just need to decide if it's a good idea and what would need to be in it.

The cheating clause is the big reason I'd want a prenup.  Well, also because of my business.  I'd want to protect it.

[Deleted]

I might consider one if I had significant assets. That was not the case in my first marriage and wouldn't likely be the case in a second (unless I don't marry again for a long time or get some huge unexpected windfall). Retirement is the only thing I'd maybe want to protect and I don't feel like I'd be bringing so much into the marriage that it would ruin me if I had to share. Thankfully, XH didn't go after my retirement so I kept it all without issue the first time around.