I bought a Barbour coat that was on sale a few weeks ago. It was $279, but final sale.
It arrived, and I just didn't know that $279 loved it. Decided to try out the Amex return protection feature. Just got my email approving the refund. And it seems that I get to keep the coat?
This seems shady and dishonest to me since you knew it was a final sale. It isn't like you tried to return it under the store's policy and they denied the return for some ridiculous or made up reason. It was a final sale. You knew that when you purchased it.
Wait-so you knew that it was final sale and there is nothing wrong with the coat but you're using Amex to get a refund AND you think you get to keep the coat? I'm sorry but thats completely unethical IMO.
What do you guys think should happen? Should Amex receive the coat back? Amex has a policy, which by the way is fantastic for their business and earns them the loyalty of so many customers, and V availed herself of this policy. Please don't feel sorry for American Express.
Ok, actually it looks like generally Amex will want the item back:
7. What do I do with the item I cannot return? Once your request has been approved, you will be instructed to send the purchased item to us within 30 days. Please keep a record of your shipping statement, as you will need to provide proof of shipping in the event that your designated items are not received. If you are required to send the purchased item to us, we will reimburse you for the shipping cost. The refund – up to $300 per item and up to a maximum of $1,000 per Card Member per year – will be reimbursed to you.
I will say, however, that a friend of mine had an issue with a dining room set, and she didn't have to send it back to Amex. (For probably obvious shipping reasons.)
I'd love to see this storeroom of returned items at Amex. What do they do with all this crap??
The policy is: • Use Your Eligible Card - American Express may refund the full purchase price (excluding shipping and handling) if you purchased it entirely with your eligible American Express® Card. Items are eligible if they are in “like new” condition and if they cannot be returned to the merchant from which they were originally purchased.
I emailed the merchant to see if they'd make an exception to the final sale thing -- they wouldn't. So I submitted an entirely truthful claim to Amex, and they approved it. Nothing dishonest there. Believe me, I do not commit insurance fraud.
Amex apparently sometimes asks you to send the covered item to them (nice feature: if they do, they reimburse you for the shipping), but in some cases they don't. I'm lucky to be one of those don'ts.
Post by LoveTrains on Jul 31, 2014 13:14:13 GMT -5
I don't think v did anything wrong by using the Amex purchase protection. It is a feature of the card so that consumers like v will use Amex. It has limits and she was within them.
I swear that, as far as I can tell, this is the kind of stuff that return protection is for -- to protect customers from onerous return policies. Defective merchandise (including stuff you break by mistake within 90 days of purchase, or items that break on you after the one year manufacturers' warranties have expired) are covered by entirely different Amex protections, so return protection can't be for the purpose of damaged goods (how could it be? it expressly covers only items that are in "'like new' condition (not visibly used or worn) and in working order").
I've had fantastic experiences with Amex on extended warranty, and "help! the company has my deposit but then went out of business" and "help! I ordered something for a friend and a neighbor stole it" circumstances. Their fantastic protections are how they've gotten loyalty from me (even though their rewards aren't as good as other cards), and are why I will ALWAYS have an Amex for important purchases. I'll agree to disagree that taking advantage of credit card benefits is unethical.
If they ask me to send the item, I will happily do so. I didn't file a claim looking for a windfall.
v Here's the thing, the return policy wasn't onerous. You didn't have to complete a shitton of forms and provide the receipt in triplicate and know which server your order was placed through and have the return processed by one of two clerks that only work every other Thursday to return the coat. That would be a onerous policy.
You decided to make a purchase even though you knew it was a final sale. I am pretty sure you knew that means no returns so even though you were able to work this out with AMEX doesn't make it any better. If the item had been damaged or defective, then that would be different but just because you didn't like it? Yeah, shady.
And for the record, I think the LL Bean stuff that another poster does is shady too.
v Here's the thing, the return policy wasn't onerous. You didn't have to complete a shitton of forms and provide the receipt in triplicate and know which server your order was placed through and have the return processed by one of two clerks that only work every other Thursday to return the coat. That would be a onerous policy.
You decided to make a purchase even though you knew it was a final sale. I am pretty sure you knew that means no returns so even though you were able to work this out with AMEX doesn't make it any better. If the item had been damaged or defective, then that would be different but just because you didn't like it? Yeah, shady.
And for the record, I think the LL Bean stuff that another poster does is shady too.
The policy purposely covers final sale items. It's expressly stated. Policies like this are why I pay $500 a month for my Amex card.
The policy purposely covers final sale items. It's expressly stated. Policies like this are why I pay $500 a month for my Amex card.
There's an AmEx with benefits worth $6k/year? Whoa.
Regardless, I get why the whole coat thing sounds skeevy, but it's not like the retailer who offered the coat on final sale is the one getting screwed. AmEx is eating the cost, under a policy that they clearly did a cost/benefit analysis on, and deemed a worthwhile business decision in view of the loyalty, etc. that they get for it. Availing yourself of that policy in the intended manner and circumstances and well within the stated limits seems like being an informed consumer.
The policy purposely covers final sale items. It's expressly stated. Policies like this are why I pay $500 a month for my Amex card.
There's an AmEx with benefits worth $6k/year? Whoa.
Regardless, I get why the whole coat thing sounds skeevy, but it's not like the retailer who offered the coat on final sale is the one getting screwed. AmEx is eating the cost, under a policy that they clearly did a cost/benefit analysis on, and deemed a worthwhile business decision in view of the loyalty, etc. that they get for it. Availing yourself of that policy in the intended manner and circumstances and well within the stated limits seems like being an informed consumer.
Lol. No. I meant per year. Whoops. I do not have a black card (which is obviously way more than 6k per year).
There's an AmEx with benefits worth $6k/year? Whoa.
Regardless, I get why the whole coat thing sounds skeevy, but it's not like the retailer who offered the coat on final sale is the one getting screwed. AmEx is eating the cost, under a policy that they clearly did a cost/benefit analysis on, and deemed a worthwhile business decision in view of the loyalty, etc. that they get for it. Availing yourself of that policy in the intended manner and circumstances and well within the stated limits seems like being an informed consumer.
Lol. No. I meant per year. Whoops. I do not have a black card (which is obviously way more than 6k per year).
that makes more sense! slightly less baller though.
If the item had been damaged or defective, then that would be different but just because you didn't like it? Yeah, shady.
You understand that if the item had been damaged or defective, return protection wouldn't apply, right? Amex would cover it under an entirely different benefit. Items that are defective or damaged CANNOT be claimed through return protection because they are not in "'like new' condition (not visibly used or worn) and in working order," as required by the policy. Damaged/defective items are not like new or in working order.
Amex states:
"1. How does Return Protection work?
If you are ever dissatisfied with a purchase and the merchant will not take it back, contact Return Protection at 1-800-297-8019 within 90 days of the purchase. American Express will refund the full purchase price, up to $300 per item, excluding shipping and handling, up to $1,000 annually per Card account."
I was dissatisfied with the coat and the merchant wouldn't take it back. There you go.
I don't think v did anything wrong by using the Amex purchase protection. It is a feature of the card so that consumers like v will use Amex. It has limits and she was within them.
Yeah, except Amex doesn't eat the cost, it charges it back to the merchant.
Merchants don't have a lot of choice in credit card processing. And when they tried to sue Amex for antitrust violations, the Supreme Court said it was legal for Amex to use its monopoly power to require merchants to sign agreements waiving various rights to recourse against Amex for screwing them.
I understand that it's a service offered by Amex to her, and she has a "right" to take advantage of it, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's complete and utter bullshit. She's not paying for the service; someone else with no bargaining power is, and passing that cost off on everyone else. And if she is paying for the service through annual membership fees, I cannot even deal with the idea that someone would find value in paying a monopoly for a service which effectively screws over small businesses. Fraud services are one thing, but this is something else entirely.
The only real winner here is Amex who can use its monopoly power to force abusive, unfair business practices down merchants throats, and then in turn, tout these practices that screw over small businesses as selling points to lure in more customers.
Did she have a right to do it? Sure. But just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean it's always ethical or moral to use that right.
ESF, just wondering -- how do you feel about credit card rewards?
Like, is it shitty/unethical for cardholders to redeem 1% cash back rewards, because that amount is passed on to the merchant in the form of higher fees? I'd imagine a lot more of Amex's collected fees are going to rewards than to obscure benefits like return protection.
(I'm sure we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this so I'm not looking to debate or anything -- just wondering what your views are)