Living in a non-English speaking country

[orriskitten]

For those of you living in a place where English isn't the main language, I have a random question. When you are out in a shop or restaurant, do you attempt to speak the language? Do you start in the foreign language until you don't understand or just lead with English?

Just curious.

I usually try to lead with Icelandic even though I'm not fluent. Small talk is not big here so it's usually just 2 questions: do you want to buy a bag? And do you want your receipt?

If it goes beyond that I ask if the person can speak English. I also tend to talk English to DD at the register so the cashier doesn't think I'm a total idiot lol.

I will be taking language courses soon, but I'm sure it will be a whole before I'm fluent. Grocery store interactions seem to be the first big foreign language exchanges.

[origami]

I'm in Korea and I know almost no Korean beyond hello and thank you. Rosetta Stone has taught me how to say things like "there is a red ball" but not useful things like "where is the bathroom?" I try not to talk if I can possibly help it (beyond hi/thx) and point instead, but if I can't do that I have no choice but to speak English. Sometimes I bust out the google translate app, if I have to say something complicated. It was super fun at a car dealership today, trying to figure out what options come with various trim packages, when the dealer spoke no English and I felt lucky to even find the dealership on the map.

Luckily everyone here assumes I don't speak Korean because I'm Caucasian and the vast majority of people I've met speak enough English to tell me what I need to know. They're very patient and understanding. I will take language classes once my kids start school.

[rupertpenny]

I bet they love you for speaking Icelandic! I know a lot of people there are afraid of the language dying out so I'm sure the appreciate your efforts.

Things are a little different in Hong Kong since English is still an official language. Similar to origami's experience people automatically speak English with me because I'm obviously a westerner. I plan to start taking Cantonese classes soon though.

[poisonkisses]

I just moved to Germany a little over a week ago, and my German is pretty limited beyond pleasantries and numbers so far (and random Rosetta Stone phrases), but I try to blend in and speak German. Stores are usually pretty simple since all I have to say is hello, thank you and goodbye. But even if they say something I don't understand they usually don't switch to English, just repeat themselves and point.

[Deleted]

Before I spoke French really well, I tended to stand around looking like an idiot when someone spoke to me. Not only did I not respond in French, but I was so petrified that I didn't even respond in English. Then I always tried in French after that stage fright disappeared.

[katfco]

Most people in China we needed to speak to on a day to day basis (at the store, taxi drivers, etc.) didn't speak English, so we had to start out in Chinese. We carried a dictionary around with us wherever we went. Fortunately, they were very patient (and surprised if we knew much Chinese).

[GilliC]

Aug 5, 2014 9:14:29 GMT -5 orriskitten said:

Small talk is not big here so it's usually just 2 questions: do you want to buy a bag? And do you want your receipt?

LOL! For a long time, those were the only two things I understood in Norwegian! After 7 years here, I moved across town (out of the yuppie neighborhood), and found out that some (less snobby) people use another term for receipt, so I got all confused!

[GilliC]

To answer your original question:

Unless it's a routine conversation (bag & receipt, buying phone credit, ordering a hot dog), I typically just start off in English. I've had my language hopes dashed over the years by Norwegians' knowledge of and inclination to speak English. Paired with my terrible accent, it's much easier for them to understand me in English than in Norwegian.

I really do want to improve, but I don't like talking to strangers at the best of times (even in English-speaking places), so I quickly get disheartened when my attempts fail. And half the time, if they do understand my Norwegian, they answer in English anyway. My goal for this entire year is to work on my pronunciation enough that I can order a double cappuccino with light milk and not have the barista reply in English.

Eight years. I suck.

In Beijing, I almost always spoke in Mandarin if I had the vocabulary at all. Even if it meant strange vocabulary-limited sentences like, "200? Too expensive. I am unable. If I pay 200, my husband is not happy."

I learned so much more Chinese than I learn Norwegian, because there wasn't another option. People couldn't just switch to English when things got at all difficult. Yes, the language barrier could be a pain in the ass, but in many ways I miss it, because it's so ridiculously easy (for either side) to fall back on English instead of making the effort to try.

[origami]

Aug 6, 2014 8:11:12 GMT -5 GilliC said:

To answer your original question:

Unless it's a routine conversation (bag & receipt, buying phone credit, ordering a hot dog), I typically just start off in English. I've had my language hopes dashed over the years by Norwegians' knowledge of and inclination to speak English. Paired with my terrible accent, it's much easier for them to understand me in English than in Norwegian.

I really do want to improve, but I don't like talking to strangers at the best of times (even in English-speaking places), so I quickly get disheartened when my attempts fail. And half the time, if they do understand my Norwegian, they answer in English anyway. My goal for this entire year is to work on my pronunciation enough that I can order a double cappuccino with light milk and not have the barista reply in English.

Eight years. I suck.

In Beijing, I almost always spoke in Mandarin if I had the vocabulary at all. Even if it meant strange vocabulary-limited sentences like, "200? Too expensive. I am unable. If I pay 200, my husband is not happy."

I learned so much more Chinese than I learn Norwegian, because there wasn't another option. People couldn't just switch to English when things got at all difficult. Yes, the language barrier could be a pain in the ass, but in many ways I miss it, because it's so ridiculously easy (for either side) to fall back on English instead of making the effort to try.

That was my experience when I studied abroad in France. I was there to learn French and everyone replied back to me in English as if I hadn't even tried. :S

[MauMau]

I said my pleasantries in German. Could ask that there was no mustard and pickle on my burger. Could read signs and eventually knew the announcements for various things pertaining to the tram and train. I didn't small talk. Swiss don't small talk much.

Checking out involved a smile from me with no smile back. Grüezi a hello and get a short one back. Run to end of the conveyer belt and pack my bags as quickly as possible. Return to cashier and had cash over with a Merci at the end. Oh I knew how to ask for the special taxed garbage bags behind the counter. Ich möchte ein Zürisack. I even would go the the post office to by those trash bags. Really random. Haha. I used to go there first because I could point to the picture. Lol

[woodenshoes]

I've been in the Netherlands almost six years now and speak Dutch when out in public. My Dutch is pretty decent but I am naturally a socially anxious person so even now I can break out into a cold sweat having to talk to strangers. (Which is no different if I'm back home speaking English in the U.S.)

Honestly, if I am out with H (he's Dutch), I still let him do most of the talking and I'll do just about anything to avoid answering unknown numbers on the phone. Lol.

Most everyone speaks very good English here, so if I'm really not understanding something I can almost always switch.

Like rupertpenny said, I am sure they appreciate your speaking Icelandic. No matter how shy or silly I feel speaking Dutch, everyone has been nothing but supportive and complimentary about my attempts.

[GilliC]

Aug 6, 2014 16:07:30 GMT -5 woodenshoes said:

I've been in the Netherlands almost six years now and speak Dutch when out in public. My Dutch is pretty decent but I am naturally a socially anxious person so even now I can break out into a cold sweat having to talk to strangers. (Which is no different if I'm back home speaking English in the U.S.)

Honestly, if I am out with H (he's Dutch), I still let him do most of the talking and I'll do just about anything to avoid answering unknown numbers on the phone. Lol.

Most everyone speaks very good English here, so if I'm really not understanding something I can almost always switch.

Like rupertpenny said, I am sure they appreciate your speaking Icelandic. No matter how shy or silly I feel speaking Dutch, everyone has been nothing but supportive and complimentary about my attempts.

I'm so jealous. I don't think I've gotten more than a half dozen compliments for attempting Norwegian the entire time I've lived here! Usually the response is either confusion or correction of my pronunciation (even though I can't hear the difference). It really makes me feel, "Why bother?"

[rupertpenny]

Aug 6, 2014 8:26:15 GMT -5 origami said:

Aug 6, 2014 8:11:12 GMT -5 GilliC said:

To answer your original question:

Unless it's a routine conversation (bag & receipt, buying phone credit, ordering a hot dog), I typically just start off in English. I've had my language hopes dashed over the years by Norwegians' knowledge of and inclination to speak English. Paired with my terrible accent, it's much easier for them to understand me in English than in Norwegian.

I really do want to improve, but I don't like talking to strangers at the best of times (even in English-speaking places), so I quickly get disheartened when my attempts fail. And half the time, if they do understand my Norwegian, they answer in English anyway. My goal for this entire year is to work on my pronunciation enough that I can order a double cappuccino with light milk and not have the barista reply in English.

Eight years. I suck.

In Beijing, I almost always spoke in Mandarin if I had the vocabulary at all. Even if it meant strange vocabulary-limited sentences like, "200? Too expensive. I am unable. If I pay 200, my husband is not happy."

I learned so much more Chinese than I learn Norwegian, because there wasn't another option. People couldn't just switch to English when things got at all difficult. Yes, the language barrier could be a pain in the ass, but in many ways I miss it, because it's so ridiculously easy (for either side) to fall back on English instead of making the effort to try.

That was my experience when I studied abroad in France. I was there to learn French and everyone replied back to me in English as if I hadn't even tried. :S

I had a similar experience while studying abroad in Germany. And they weren't even doing in a helpful way, more like rolling their eyes at the dumb American and trying to prove their lingual superiority. 

[MauMau]

Swiss Germans get confused with high German. So even if you are moving towards fluency in your German. They still will switch to English. Because it's hard for them to understand high German

[origami]

I just wanted you all to know I stepped out of my comfort zone and ordered 2 churros at the park today in grammatically correct Korean. Aaaaand the cashier was so flustered (either because my pronunciation was that bad or because she expected English) she actually laughed out loud to my face.

[woodenshoes]

Aug 6, 2014 17:16:56 GMT -5 GilliC said:

Aug 6, 2014 16:07:30 GMT -5 woodenshoes said:

I've been in the Netherlands almost six years now and speak Dutch when out in public. My Dutch is pretty decent but I am naturally a socially anxious person so even now I can break out into a cold sweat having to talk to strangers. (Which is no different if I'm back home speaking English in the U.S.)

Honestly, if I am out with H (he's Dutch), I still let him do most of the talking and I'll do just about anything to avoid answering unknown numbers on the phone. Lol.

Most everyone speaks very good English here, so if I'm really not understanding something I can almost always switch.

Like rupertpenny said, I am sure they appreciate your speaking Icelandic. No matter how shy or silly I feel speaking Dutch, everyone has been nothing but supportive and complimentary about my attempts.

I'm so jealous. I don't think I've gotten more than a half dozen compliments for attempting Norwegian the entire time I've lived here! Usually the response is either confusion or correction of my pronunciation (even though I can't hear the difference). It really makes me feel, "Why bother?"

Do you happen to live in a big city or touristy area? I live in a part of the NL where people vastly prefer to speak in Dutch (read: middle of nowhere village with a population of 4,000), so that could be the difference. When I have gone to Amsterdam and other touristy areas they seem to have less patience with me and are much more quick to switch to English once they hear my accent.

I think in my part of the country they are just relieved they don't have to speak English because, just like me, they are often nervous and self-conscious about speaking a foreign language.

[loira]

Aug 7, 2014 5:00:13 GMT -5 origami said:

I just wanted you all to know I stepped out of my comfort zone and ordered 2 churros at the park today in grammatically correct Korean. Aaaaand the cashier was so flustered (either because my pronunciation was that bad or because she expected English) she actually laughed out loud to my face.

Haha, ah Korea! I had this happen too when we lived in Bucheon. I think they just don't expect it. We once met a girl at a foreigner bar though who was teaching ESL and had Korean heritage but was 3rd generation Canadian. She said people tended to get really frustrated with her for not speaking the language, and some older ladies would get downright angry.

When I moved to Brazil, I only knew limited Portuguese. I always made the effort to speak Portuguese, and anyway I usually didn't have a choice. Not sure how it is now in the shadow of all the international sporting events, but when I lived in Rio, you'd be hard pressed to find a Brazilian who could say more than 'hi my name is...' I really wanted to learn the language though, so one of the first things I learned how to say was 'I am not here to improve your English' to people who tried to practice with me. Sounds harsh, but I am fluent now and never would have been if I had spoken English with everyone who wanted to speak it with me.

[GilliC]

Aug 7, 2014 7:13:51 GMT -5 loira said:

Aug 7, 2014 5:00:13 GMT -5 origami said:

I just wanted you all to know I stepped out of my comfort zone and ordered 2 churros at the park today in grammatically correct Korean. Aaaaand the cashier was so flustered (either because my pronunciation was that bad or because she expected English) she actually laughed out loud to my face.

Haha, ah Korea! I had this happen too when we lived in Bucheon. I think they just don't expect it. We once met a girl at a foreigner bar though who was teaching ESL and had Korean heritage but was 3rd generation Canadian. She said people tended to get really frustrated with her for not speaking the language, and some older ladies would get downright angry.

When I moved to Brazil, I only knew limited Portuguese. I always made the effort to speak Portuguese, and anyway I usually didn't have a choice. Not sure how it is now in the shadow of all the international sporting events, but when I lived in Rio, you'd be hard pressed to find a Brazilian who could say more than 'hi my name is...' I really wanted to learn the language though, so one of the first things I learned how to say was 'I am not here to improve your English' to people who tried to practice with me. Sounds harsh, but I am fluent now and never would have been if I had spoken English with everyone who wanted to speak it with me.

You would think that would make a difference, but nope. When I flew into Fortaleza for the World Cup, the immigration agent didn't speak English! And she was trying to ask me questions about my visa in Portuguese. "I don't understand Portuguese," is one of the few things I can say quite well in Portuguese, but she just kept trying. It was a nightmare. I eventually got shuffled off into a corner until every single passenger from our flight and the one after it had all been cleared, and then they sent me to apparently the one immigration official who could speak English.

Rio is a lot better, since they see more tourists, but I definitely rely a lot more on my basic Portuguese while I'm there. I can order food and drinks without too much trouble, but I struggle with over-enthusiastic sales women, because they want to ask me questions, and my comprehension and vocabulary aren't good enough.

I have found that even among highly-educated younger Brazilians, they're very hesitant to speak English. They're quite shy about it, so a lot of my SO's friends avoid chatting with me, even though their English is nearly perfect!

[GilliC]

Aug 7, 2014 5:44:00 GMT -5 woodenshoes said:

Aug 6, 2014 17:16:56 GMT -5 GilliC said:

I'm so jealous. I don't think I've gotten more than a half dozen compliments for attempting Norwegian the entire time I've lived here! Usually the response is either confusion or correction of my pronunciation (even though I can't hear the difference). It really makes me feel, "Why bother?"

Do you happen to live in a big city or touristy area? I live in a part of the NL where people vastly prefer to speak in Dutch (read: middle of nowhere village with a population of 4,000), so that could be the difference. When I have gone to Amsterdam and other touristy areas they seem to have less patience with me and are much more quick to switch to English once they hear my accent.

I think in my part of the country they are just relieved they don't have to speak English because, just like me, they are often nervous and self-conscious about speaking a foreign language.

I do live in a bigger city, but since only a few million people speak Norwegian, you have to get quite far out into the country or quite an older generation to find someone who's not comfortable in English.

I did spend Thanksgiving last year at a friend's house in the middle of nowhere, and she had her Norwegian neighbors over. We played some kind of English-Norwegian vocabulary game, and they were very encouraging. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure that if I tried to speak more with intoxicated Norwegians, I'd get a much better response! As a culture, they're very reserved unless they've had a few beers.

[woodenshoes]

Aug 7, 2014 9:37:35 GMT -5 GilliC said:

Aug 7, 2014 5:44:00 GMT -5 woodenshoes said:

Do you happen to live in a big city or touristy area? I live in a part of the NL where people vastly prefer to speak in Dutch (read: middle of nowhere village with a population of 4,000), so that could be the difference. When I have gone to Amsterdam and other touristy areas they seem to have less patience with me and are much more quick to switch to English once they hear my accent.

I think in my part of the country they are just relieved they don't have to speak English because, just like me, they are often nervous and self-conscious about speaking a foreign language.

I do live in a bigger city, but since only a few million people speak Norwegian, you have to get quite far out into the country or quite an older generation to find someone who's not comfortable in English.

I did spend Thanksgiving last year at a friend's house in the middle of nowhere, and she had her Norwegian neighbors over. We played some kind of English-Norwegian vocabulary game, and they were very encouraging. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure that if I tried to speak more with intoxicated Norwegians, I'd get a much better response! As a culture, they're very reserved unless they've had a few beers.

Oops! I didn't catch that you are in Oslo!

I worked here in the Netherlands with a couple of Norwegians and it was so impressive how quickly they picked up Dutch.

I've always thought of the Dutch as pretty reserved but Norwegians sound like they've got them beat.

I also want to add that I think I've got it easier learning Dutch compared to Norwegian! 

[potatopie]

When I was learning Italian, I found that the words "this" and "that" are infinitely useful. I could say things like "how much is this" and just point without having to know the vocab words for everything. I always found people to very understanding of my lack of language skills. They usually finish sentences or words for me when they see me struggle.

[wise_rita]

Aug 6, 2014 8:02:07 GMT -5 GilliC said:

Aug 5, 2014 9:14:29 GMT -5 orriskitten said:

Small talk is not big here so it's usually just 2 questions: do you want to buy a bag? And do you want your receipt?

LOL! For a long time, those were the only two things I understood in Norwegian! After 7 years here, I moved across town (out of the yuppie neighborhood), and found out that some (less snobby) people use another term for receipt, so I got all confused!

What the heck word is this?

[GilliC]

Aug 9, 2014 8:09:24 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

Aug 6, 2014 8:02:07 GMT -5 GilliC said:

LOL! For a long time, those were the only two things I understood in Norwegian! After 7 years here, I moved across town (out of the yuppie neighborhood), and found out that some (less snobby) people use another term for receipt, so I got all confused!

What the heck word is this?

No idea, but it sounds something like "lappet"

[klingklang77]

Aug 6, 2014 16:07:30 GMT -5 woodenshoes said:

I've been in the Netherlands almost six years now and speak Dutch when out in public. My Dutch is pretty decent but I am naturally a socially anxious person so even now I can break out into a cold sweat having to talk to strangers. (Which is no different if I'm back home speaking English in the U.S.). . . No matter how shy or silly I feel speaking Dutch, everyone has been nothing but supportive and complimentary about my attempts.

This is my situation, but I've been in Germany for four years. Everyone has been very supportive. Some situations I have a tough time. For example, we just signed a car lease and I had some trouble understanding. Luckily, my husband's German is better than mine, so I can depend on him for some things. 

I just had an awful experience with the DMV here. I had to have my papers transferred from Frankfurt to Munich, and they got lost in the process. They were found, thank God! But when I was at the DMV (the workers aren't very happy there, just like in the US), I couldn't understand everything and I saw the worker getting annoyed. I just apologized and said my German wasn't good, and she was nice and said that it was really good, so that was nice to hear. From then on she was quite pleasant. I was surprised. 

[wise_rita]

Aug 9, 2014 8:44:18 GMT -5 GilliC said:

Aug 9, 2014 8:09:24 GMT -5 wise_rita said:

What the heck word is this?

No idea, but it sounds something like "lappet"

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I bet it's 'lappen', meaning the note.