Global Parenting Habits That Haven't Caught On In The U.S.

[heyjude]

Aug 13, 2014 12:50:18 GMT -5 cville said:

Aug 13, 2014 12:48:52 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I like how not doing EC (which is training the parents not the child, sorrynotsorry) = sitting in their own filth and getting diaper rashes.

Between two kids, I've had to deal with diaper rash exactly once.

Wait, so you're supposed to change the diaper more than 1x/day?  

Right!!

Your baby had a messy diaper. You change it. You don't leave them in it so they can wallow in poo all day.

[downtoearth]

Aug 13, 2014 12:17:19 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Aug 12, 2014 15:16:43 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

I love the diaper trend in vietnam.

It bugs the crap out of me when american parents get all aghast to hear about a 2 yo being potty trained, like the kid was tortured to get him to pt SO EARLY.

no. 2 is on time. Just b/c everyone in the us is pting late doesn't make 2 early All of a sudden.

Evenyone thinks I'm nuts for wanting to do EC with our baby. As if babies enjoy sitting in their own filth and getting diaper rash.

Oh I've talked to some people who tried this - I didn't know them well, but I was nosy and asked them about it.  A family friend growing up tried it with their first and a former local board girl from the-place-that-not-be-named (both people who tried it, stopped after about 6-12months and used cloth diapers a lot also).  Both said you have to be a very dedicated SAHP b/c most of the dads and other family members are not committed.  Both made a pee sound like a "hiss" when the baby went, which is similar to the overseas moms.  Both also said that hindsight, it took a lot more time and attention than they thought at first and that there was a lot of accidents at home.  The family friend had a second kid and didn't even try it, but she was also going back to work, so daycare couldn't accommodate.

I never asked my real questions of judgement, so maybe you can answer these, "Why is it so important that you communicate with your kid about pee/poop so early and often?  Is this bonding?  I like talking to my babies about food needs and what we saw around the world and family names way more than about diapers/poop.  Does it benefit the kid's health more?  Does it make your kid smarter/better in some way or does it just make your kid MORE the center of attention in your life and take away from your time doing other family or fun things?"

ETA:  There must be some advantage I don't get b/c not only do people in Vietnam do this, but people in the US are doing it also, so am I just totally missing it with my narrow view that diapers are good until potty training?

[cville]

Aug 13, 2014 12:53:24 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Aug 13, 2014 12:50:18 GMT -5 cville said:

Wait, so you're supposed to change the diaper more than 1x/day?  

Right!!

Your baby had a messy diaper. You change it. You don't leave them in it so they can wallow in poo all day.

So, what you're saying is that there is more than one way to attend to the needs of my baby?

GET OUT OF TOWN.

[meshaliuknits]

Aug 13, 2014 12:48:52 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I like how not doing EC (which is training the parents not the child, sorrynotsorry) = sitting in their own filth and getting diaper rashes.

Between two kids, I've had to deal with diaper rash exactly once.

Pfft. I feel this way about potty training right now.

[eclaires]

Aug 13, 2014 12:54:25 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

Aug 13, 2014 12:48:52 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I like how not doing EC (which is training the parents not the child, sorrynotsorry) = sitting in their own filth and getting diaper rashes.

Between two kids, I've had to deal with diaper rash exactly once.

Pfft. I feel this way about potty training right now.

Really most things are like that I think.  We think we're the ones doing the training, but in reality, they are training us.

[meshaliuknits]

Aug 13, 2014 12:56:39 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Aug 13, 2014 12:54:25 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

Pfft. I feel this way about potty training right now.

Really most things are like that I think.  We think we're the ones doing the training, but in reality, they are training us.

I know that's how the cats roll. At least they are up front about it.

[eclaires]

Aug 13, 2014 12:53:24 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Aug 13, 2014 12:50:18 GMT -5 cville said:

Wait, so you're supposed to change the diaper more than 1x/day?  

Right!!

Your baby had a messy diaper. You change it. You don't leave them in it so they can wallow in poo all day.

uh yes you do!  that's the rule.  WALLOW IN YOUR FILTH, BABY.

[darnkatz]

My kids nap the best in strollers outside. Even when it's freezing out. They are usually so bundled that they are nice and toasty and fall right asleep.

[ChillyMcFreeze]

Aug 12, 2014 17:36:39 GMT -5 origami said:

I was only in China 2w and I still saw a lot of babies in crotchless pants peeing NOT on command - on the sidewalk. On Tiennamen Sq. On the grass, etc. While the no diapers at 9m thing is great in theory I don't think it works nearly as well in reality as they think it does. And I have pics to prove it.

I watched a woman hold her baby out in front of her IN THE AIRPORT and let it pee all over the floor. Made no attempt to alert anyone or clean it up. Screw cultural relativism. That's gross.

[ijack]

Aug 12, 2014 18:25:18 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I don't think the kids riding the subway alone is that weird. But I think a lot of elementary kids in DC use the subway/metrobus as their way to get to school sans parent.I would like my kid to be able to navigate DC via subway/bus at 7.

There is a bus downtown that goes just from one side to the other during "rush hour" (for people trying to get to the light rail and such) and happens to go right by DD's school and my work. I really, really want her to be able to just hop on the bus and ride down to my office, but everyone thinks I'm crazy.

[darnkatz]

Aug 13, 2014 13:43:33 GMT -5 ijack said:

Aug 12, 2014 18:25:18 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I don't think the kids riding the subway alone is that weird. But I think a lot of elementary kids in DC use the subway/metrobus as their way to get to school sans parent.I would like my kid to be able to navigate DC via subway/bus at 7.

There is a bus downtown that goes just from one side to the other during "rush hour" (for people trying to get to the light rail and such) and happens to go right by DD's school and my work. I really, really want her to be able to just hop on the bus and ride down to my office, but everyone thinks I'm crazy.

I saw kids as young as 7 riding the city bus in Chicago to school. No one gave them any trouble. I don't think you are crazy at all.

[sillygoosegirl]

Aug 13, 2014 12:53:36 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Aug 13, 2014 12:17:19 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Evenyone thinks I'm nuts for wanting to do EC with our baby. As if babies enjoy sitting in their own filth and getting diaper rash.

Oh I've talked to some people who tried this - I didn't know them well, but I was nosy and asked them about it.  A family friend growing up tried it with their first and a former local board girl from the-place-that-not-be-named (both people who tried it, stopped after about 6-12months and used cloth diapers a lot also).  Both said you have to be a very dedicated SAHP b/c most of the dads and other family members are not committed.  Both made a pee sound like a "hiss" when the baby went, which is similar to the overseas moms.  Both also said that hindsight, it took a lot more time and attention than they thought at first and that there was a lot of accidents at home.  The family friend had a second kid and didn't even try it, but she was also going back to work, so daycare couldn't accommodate.

I never asked my real questions of judgement, so maybe you can answer these, "Why is it so important that you communicate with your kid about pee/poop so early and often?  Is this bonding?  I like talking to my babies about food needs and what we saw around the world and family names way more than about diapers/poop.  Does it benefit the kid's health more?  Does it make your kid smarter/better in some way or does it just make your kid MORE the center of attention in your life and take away from your time doing other family or fun things?"

ETA:  There must be some advantage I don't get b/c not only do people in Vietnam do this, but people in the US are doing it also, so am I just totally missing it with my narrow view that diapers are good until potty training?

I could ask the same questions of parents that diaper, but I will try to answer your questions.

1 and 2. It's not especially important to me to communicate with my kid about pee and poop, but it sounds way more pleasant than changing diapers to me.  Especially since it's supposed to last a lot less long.

3. I'm not really expecting my kid to be intelligent enough to communicate with me about what we saw around the world or family names at 0-12 months of age, so I don't think EC will take away from that, if that is what you are trying to imply.

4. Maybe it's our climate, but almost all parents I know IRL complain about diaper rash, say that vast amounts of butt cream are essential, and tell me that all babies get diaper rash.  I know it's not a huge problem, but yeah, preventing it does seem like a health benefit.

5. I'm sure this depends on your hobbies, but I think it will be a lot easier for us to spend time doing fun family things when our baby is not in diapers.  I don't want to wait 3-4 years (or longer if we have multiple kids) to go backpacking again.  

[Deleted]

Aug 13, 2014 12:50:18 GMT -5 cville said:

Aug 13, 2014 12:48:52 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I like how not doing EC (which is training the parents not the child, sorrynotsorry) = sitting in their own filth and getting diaper rashes.

Between two kids, I've had to deal with diaper rash exactly once.

Wait, so you're supposed to change the diaper more than 1x/day?  

IDK about you, but I buy the diapers that say they hold up to 27lbs. I figure that should last me at least a day or two.

[Deleted]

I'm fucking dying that miss EC up there thinks that her kid is actually going to be potty trained at 9 months so that the kid can hold it while they are backpacking.

Because that's the damned difference, if you are curious. A nine month old does not have control of their bowel movements. The reason EC parents are able to give up diapers by that age is because an infant's eating and shitting schedule is far more predictable. So yeah, you can't just expect that a nine month old is going to be able to communicate with you about their needs. You'll just know how long you can hike before you have to peel the baby out of a carrier and hiss at it behind a bush.

Also, uhm, give me a second while I think of one thing having a kid in diapers has kept me from doing SOLELY BECAUSE THEY ARE IN DIAPERS.


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Yeah, still thinking. People say they don't want to do x, y, z while their kid is still in diapers because kids that are young enough to be in diapers are great big pains in the asses to accompany you anywhere and make even the most mundane trip twice the length. But it's not because of the actual presence of a diaper.

[heyjude]

"I don't want to wait 3-4 years (or longer if we have multiple kids) to go backpacking again."

I KNEW THIS WAS ABOUT YOU!!!!!

[eclaires]

Thanks for the comic relief tonight, I needed it.

Good luck with all that.

[Deleted]

Aug 13, 2014 21:37:11 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Granted, I haven't had a potty trained kid, but I don't understand how diapers are more inconvenient than constantly having to find a bathroom. She does realize that she will still have to go to the bathroom with a 14 month old, right? It's not like you suddenly have all these previously wasted hours back.

Shit, you actually LOSE hours in those early years before they are able to hop on the pot all by their lonesome and adequately wipe their own asses.

I would much rather backpack with a 18 month old in diapers than a 3 year old out of them.

[eclaires]

Look I had one kid who PT'd at 3 and one that did at 15m.

I preferred the 3yo. A newly PT'd kid is the most inconvienent and biggest pita that I have dealt with as a parent.

[irishbride2]

Aug 13, 2014 21:45:11 GMT -5 eclaires said:

Look I had one kid who PT'd at 3 and one that did at 15m.

I preferred the 3yo. A newly PT'd kid is the most inconvienent and biggest pita that I have dealt with as a parent.

yep.
I'm not anti EC. but damn. The first 6 months of a potty trained kid is just flat out terrible. Terrible. 

[Deleted]

Why you people gotta tell me this when I'm trying to potty train the spawn?

Although, we might be taking a break. He was doing really well pooing on the potty but today, he had a humdinger that left him in tears. After that, he didn't want to go sit on the potty for anything, not even fruit ninja on the kindle.

Tomorrow is another day though, right?

[sillygoosegirl]

Aug 13, 2014 21:18:33 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Aug 13, 2014 21:10:01 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

I could ask the same questions of parents that diaper, but I will try to answer your questions.

1 and 2. It's not especially important to me to communicate with my kid about pee and poop, but it sounds way more pleasant than changing diapers to me.  Especially since it's supposed to last a lot less long.

3. I'm not really expecting my kid to be intelligent enough to communicate with me about what we saw around the world or family names at 0-12 months of age, so I don't think EC will take away from that, if that is what you are trying to imply.

4. Maybe it's our climate, but almost all parents I know IRL complain about diaper rash, say that vast amounts of butt cream are essential, and tell me that all babies get diaper rash.  I know it's not a huge problem, but yeah, preventing it does seem like a health benefit.

5. I'm sure this depends on your hobbies, but I think it will be a lot easier for us to spend time doing fun family things when our baby is not in diapers.  I don't want to wait 3-4 years (or longer if we have multiple kids) to go backpacking again.  

Wow, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about, but have no problem judging others and jumping to conclusions. I assume you're getting started on a sanctimommy blog?

The only thing I'm judging other people for is rejecting new ideas out of hand.  I'm pretty sure, even without being a parent yet, that I know far more about diapering than you know about EC, unless you have personally taken a turn with many friends' and family members' EC'ed babies.  

For the record, I don't think there is anything WRONG with diapering, but I know it's not the only way, and I'm not convinced it's the best possible way to handle a baby's eliminations, so I want to try something different that might be better.  Call that judgmental if you want, but I don't see why I should diaper just because that's what everyone else does.  

[sillygoosegirl]

Aug 13, 2014 21:31:10 GMT -5 heyjude said:

"I don't want to wait 3-4 years (or longer if we have multiple kids) to go backpacking again."

I KNEW THIS WAS ABOUT YOU!!!!!

Um, yeah, so what?  Are you about to tell me that all your parenting choices are 100% selfless?  If it's not harmful to the baby to do without diapers, why on Earth shouldn't we do without them if it's better for DH and me?  Last I checked, becoming a parent didn't actually require you to become a martyr.  

[Deleted]

Aug 13, 2014 22:40:43 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Aug 13, 2014 21:31:10 GMT -5 heyjude said:

"I don't want to wait 3-4 years (or longer if we have multiple kids) to go backpacking again."

I KNEW THIS WAS ABOUT YOU!!!!!

Um, yeah, so what?  Are you about to tell me that all your parenting choices are 100% selfless?  If it's not harmful to the baby to do without diapers, why on Earth shouldn't we do without them if it's better for DH and me?  Last I checked, becoming a parent didn't actually require you to become a martyr.  

Anyone in the world who can afford diapers of any sort and/or the ability to dispose or properly clean then but chooses to EC has martyr tendencies.

You will never convince me otherwise.

Ever.

It would be like deciding to forgo ANY kind of tampon, pad, or diva cup so that you can live in a tent in the backyard like they do in other countries. I mean really.

[ttt]

On the topic of diapers in China - I actually had a long conversation with someone who helped introduce disposable diapers to the Chinese market (yes, they're starting to get big there, now that people can actually afford them). At night, babies wear diapers, but like a very light silk or silk-ish cloth diaper. They also tend to sleep in the same bed as mom and dad. Then when baby wets or worse, the whole family has to get up and clean up. So nobody gets any freaking sleep until baby is old enough to get through the night.

The Chinese also have a big cultural thing about bodily fluids and getting them out and away from your body - that's why the whole thing about spitting in the street and burping being totally acceptable to do at the table. It's also incredibly unsanitary. And gross.

No thanks. I'm sticking with Pampers. Yes, I'm privileged to be able to afford them and not have to hold my baby over a garbage can at the park, and I'm going to enjoy every bit of that privilege thankyouverymuch.

[ttt]

Also, babies don't know their filth is gross. Anyone who has potty trained a toddler and seen how delighted they are to paint the walls with their poop knows this.

[sillygoosegirl]

Aug 13, 2014 22:33:30 GMT -5 @dontcallmeshirley1 said:

Aug 13, 2014 22:26:52 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

The only thing I'm judging other people for is rejecting new ideas out of hand.  I'm pretty sure, even without being a parent yet, that I know far more about diapering than you know about EC, unless you have personally taken a turn with many friends' and family members' EC'ed babies.  

For the record, I don't think there is anything WRONG with diapering, but I know it's not the only way, and I'm not convinced it's the best possible way to handle a baby's eliminations, so I want to try something different that might be better.  Call that judgmental if you want, but I don't see why I should diaper just because that's what everyone else does.  

Nuh uh. You described diapering as "allowing a baby to sit in its own filth", with a decidedly judgmental tone. Maybe that happens if you miss a poop, but the way that you characterize it makes the vast majority of the parents in this country (and the developed world) look like neglectful assholes. Your inability to see that is what people are reacting to, trust. By all means, you do you with regards to baby emissions, but don't sit there all smug and say you aren't judging when you honestly are. 

I was naming a couple well-known and relatively common aspects of diapering that I think are not beneficial.  I'm sorry you missed the post I was responding to, where that poster pointed out that many people seem to think you'll harm a child but not diapering them, even though diapering actually does have side effects and no one has been able to articulate clearly to me what harm is caused to a child by not diapering for 2+ years.  You're the one leaping to "neglectful assholes."  

Oh, and trust me, I'm judging YOU (and a few other people) a lot.  I thought my first sentence made that abundantly clear, but I don't mind spelling it out if it makes you feel better.  

[heyjude]

Aug 13, 2014 22:40:43 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Aug 13, 2014 21:31:10 GMT -5 heyjude said:

"I don't want to wait 3-4 years (or longer if we have multiple kids) to go backpacking again."

I KNEW THIS WAS ABOUT YOU!!!!!

Um, yeah, so what?  Are you about to tell me that all your parenting choices are 100% selfless?  If it's not harmful to the baby to do without diapers, why on Earth shouldn't we do without them if it's better for DH and me?  Last I checked, becoming a parent didn't actually require you to become a martyr.  

Your whole tirade here started with how this is about what's best for the baby. When in reality you don't want to have to soil your life with diapers. This is about what's best for you. That's fine. Just don't give me a line of (EBF baby) shit about poor babies wallowing in their own filth! That's where you go off the rails. EC. Don't EC. I don't care. Just don't be smug about it.

[sillygoosegirl]

Aug 13, 2014 22:59:58 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

Aug 13, 2014 22:40:43 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Um, yeah, so what?  Are you about to tell me that all your parenting choices are 100% selfless?  If it's not harmful to the baby to do without diapers, why on Earth shouldn't we do without them if it's better for DH and me?  Last I checked, becoming a parent didn't actually require you to become a martyr.  

Anyone in the world who can afford diapers of any sort and/or the ability to dispose or properly clean then but chooses to EC has martyr tendencies.

You will never convince me otherwise.

Ever.

It would be like deciding to forgo ANY kind of tampon, pad, or diva cup so that you can live in a tent in the backyard like they do in other countries. I mean really.

Actually, speaking from experience, a diva cup works really well when you are sleeping in a tent (or basically anywhere else, for the same reason).  So that's not a very good analogy.  It's basically the menstrual equivalent of holding it until you can go to an appropriate place to do your business, which is something I am extremely glad I can do for urine and stool.  And if I ever learn of a method to do this for menstruation without a piece of plastic I needed to remember to have on hand and keep clean, you'd better believe I'm going to try to learn it.  Because, really, who wouldn't want to be able to do that?  

[Deleted]

No one thinks EC hurts a kid. No one at all. We just all think people who have access to diapers, cloth or otherwise and the means to dispose or clean them properly and yet choose to EC have a serious desire to waste their own time and be at their child's beck and call all day.

But you're the asshole who is asserting that diapering is harmful to babies.

I mean shit, when I wear shoes, my feet get smelly, sweaty, sometimes blistered, calloused, or cramped. Should I consider not wearing shoes ever? I mean SOMETIMES UNCOMFORTABLE THINGS HAPPEN, PEOPLE!

[Deleted]

Aug 13, 2014 23:32:05 GMT -5 sillygoosegirl said:

Actually, speaking from experience, a diva cup works really well when you are sleeping in a tent (or basically anywhere else, for the same reason).  So that's not a very good analogy.  It's basically the menstrual equivalent of holding it until you can go to an appropriate place to do your business, which is something I am extremely glad I can do for urine and stool.  And if I ever learn of a method to do this for menstruation without a piece of plastic I needed to remember to have on hand and keep clean, you'd better believe I'm going to try to learn it.  Because, really, who wouldn't want to be able to do that?  

Either you misread what I wrote or you don't understand that there are parts of the world where women don't have access to any form of reliable sanitary devices to handle menstruation. Those women have to go sleep in a hut in the woods or sleep in a tent behind the house.

Oh that's an idea. Maybe I should stick the baby in a hut between the shed and the pool until he's potty trained.