Has anyone read the ginormous thread on CEP? It is enlightening and heartbreaking. I usually try to always keep an open mind with any kind of 'self-defense' claims since we just weren't there but this has gone too far. There isn't a chance in hell that this would have happened if Michael Brown was white. And yes, people have a right to pissed off and angry - hell not even a right, people ALL people, should be required to be FUCKING MAD AS HELL.
I'm unfortunately following because it's about 30 min from my home and BIL teaches in the Ferguson district.
I don't know the truth or the answer, but my FB and TV are full of such ugly and hate, it's sickening. I'm so sad for the community. I personally know two police officers who have been working overnight shifts in the area of conflict and I'm terrified for them.
Do police shootings happen where you guys all live?
I live in Chicago, so yes. A black man in Chicago is 70 times more likely to be shot by the cops than a white man in the same situation. It's a terrible situation.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)
Post by creamsiclechica on Aug 19, 2014 19:10:46 GMT -5
badgermom, that made me cry honestly. It's beautiful and devastating in it's truth and exactly what people need to know about their lives.
I'm crying regularly about this. It's very raw and real and the gravity of the situation should be enough to bring everyone to their knees. Racism, classism, undermining of constitutional rights, and basic disregard for humanity are the consequences of this, and so much of the American public is sitting idly by, in denial and ignorance. It's a disgrace, and too much to bear.
I've been following it. It is hard to determine what the real truth is from what I read. Regardless if it was murder or self defense, many of the protestors are going about protesting the wrong way.
I hope the truth is fully revealed and justice, whatever it may be, is served.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He was unarmed, so what makes you think that this might be self defense?
I am so fucking sick and tired of that the line about protestors going about it the wrong way. What way should we go about it? There was no rioting when Eric Garner was killed, none when Trayvon Martin was killed, and so many countless others that we don't even know about. So no rioting may not be the best option but when you have a legal system that doesn't seem to work for you, I can see getting angry. I'm fucking angry. You see Michael Brown, I see a person who could easily be my husband, one of my brothers, or my son. Our lives aren't worthless, and we don't deserve to be treated as such. If you have an alternative solution, I'm all ears.
I've read a story, I think it was from the beginning, that said he might have been armed.
I agree that the legal system is screwed up. There is also a discrepancy that starts in the school systems. It's not fight, and it's not fair. I understand anger. And people should be angry, but I just don't think that two wrongs don't make a right.
I just wish that everything in reality was how things are supposed to be: fair treatment, equal rights for all, no prejudice and discrimination against anyone.
Post by DesertMoon on Aug 19, 2014 19:54:07 GMT -5
I've heard 100 stories about what happened, so I actually have no idea what happened. Either way, i thought tasing or knight sticks were still usable...idk why you've gotta go right for the gun, especially if you don't see a weapon.
Post by spaghetticat on Aug 19, 2014 20:18:32 GMT -5
While I agree that two wrongs don't make a right, what are you supposed to do? Just accept that that's a way of life? And you have to fear that if you look at someone the wrong way, you can be killed and people will back them on it? How long can you go on living like that before you say ENOUGH?
While I agree that two wrongs don't make a right, what are you supposed to do? Just accept that that's a way of life? And you have to fear that if you look at someone the wrong way, you can be killed and people will back them on it? How long can you go on living like that before you say ENOUGH?
I think we're supposed to sing We Shall Overcome or something until we finally overcome.
Post by creamsiclechica on Aug 19, 2014 21:02:51 GMT -5
Christidee, I don't think you can understand this kind of oppression and outrage. We can empathize, but we can't understand, because there has never been a time in our lives that is comparable to the everyday struggle that is the African American experience. It doesn't start in a school system; it's a society that remains willfully ignorant of the injustices faced by minorities in this country and throughout the world right now. Every single juncture in our lives as white people is privileged in a way that no other minority, especially African Americans, is, simply by being white.
I am having a hard time articulating. I am not and never will be an advocate for violence, but this is more than that. It's not about two wrongs making a right. Nothing will bring back that innocent boy's life, and that's a terrible truth his family has to live with forever. But rising up, peacefully and forcefully, to say we will no longer tolerate this as an accepted norm, is the RIGHT thing to do. Change is necessary, and trying to let a corrupted and biased legal system and media usher in the change isn't working. Walking in the streets with guns aimed and tear gas thrown and rubber bullets shot isn't doing it. Fighting an all out war, unarmed and powerless, against a group that holds public opinion in its favor simply for existing, that's what's happening.
So let's just bury out heads and click our tongues as some stores being looted or some errant act of reciprocal violence and dismiss the larger picture. The picture that there is zero equality in this country and also zero accountability.
Fuck it, it's not our boys being slaughtered in the streets, right? My god.
badgermom thank you for that, I do think of that often when hearing these stories and then looking at my blond blue eyed boy. He also has a Jewish background and I still fear for him on that front as well and I hope I am able to impress upon him the intense importance of equality, tolerance, and common decency. I know that I cannot relate but I truly wish that you ladies- @kaspy and skwcm80 did not have these fears and worries.
Everything about this upsets me. I cannot believe self defense is even being discussed. Even if that WERE true, what is the excuse for leaving that poor man's body in the street for hours? What purpose did that serve other than to intimidate and terrify and demean the community? His poor poor family, I cannot imagine.
Post by christidee on Aug 19, 2014 21:39:05 GMT -5
@creamciclechica. I agree that there is no way to understand the oppression because I've never personally felt it. It just sucks though. Why can't peaceful protest be enough? Why can't people make the right and moral decisions and leave race completely out of the picture? Peaceful protest should be enough. Law makers, law enforcers, and every single person out there should be able to look beyond race and not make rash judgements that negatively affect the lives of others. I know I am naive about this, but it just baffles me that there is still this kind of oppression in out country, in our back yards, still today.
No mother should have to fear having a son because of how society may view/treat/'mistreat him. It's not fair, and it's not okay. And I am so sorry that there are some great moms on this board who live with that fear. It just isn't right.
Ugh first it's no ipads or devices to help keep my child entertained instead of completely losing her shit in a restaurant. Now it's just ignorance.
christidee you really are not helping the whole BEC status you have going on.
1. I'm not exactly sure what BEC stands for or means. 2. I said I am naive about this subject. Reading this post is enlightening, educational, and eye opening. Heck, before this forum I didn't even know that some African American women had a fear of having a boy because of how ugly our society can be. That is just plain awful. 3. I thought I was pretty clear in my last post. Yes, I know there is oppression and discrimination and white privilege, but I just don't get why it still exists. I don't get why because I don't see how people can still think that way, and I acknowledged that I don't like how people still think that way. We supposedly are a nation of people whom are all created equally. Why can't out country truly live out those words?
and the whole iPads things, that is me, and I acknowledged it wasn't okay to judge, and I apologized for offending people because that wasn't my intent. It is my belief for my child, and I will keep that within the confines of me raising my child and not judge others who think differently.
Well, we can be idealistic and wistful about the consequences of our inequity all we want. WE, as white people, have that luxury.
Others don't, and that's why we remain diligent and fiery to strike down those oppressors and instill it ourselves.
Okay. I am idealistic about this. I'm idealistic about a lot in life.
So besides reading more, educating myself more, and being mindful of all of the privileges that I have, what can I do? How can I help improve the ugliness so that our children hopefully see a day when it isn't like this? What can I do, and I mean really do that will leave an impact, besides breaking the law. I know I can vote for leaders who I think will help make a difference. I know I can write letters to local law enforcement agencies when they are in the wrong, but these just seem like they won't help.
Well, we can be idealistic and wistful about the consequences of our inequity all we want. WE, as white people, have that luxury.
Others don't, and that's why we remain diligent and fiery to strike down those oppressors and instill it ourselves.
Okay. I am idealistic about this. I'm idealistic about a lot in life.
So besides reading more, educating myself more, and being mindful of all of the privileges that I have, what can I do? How can I help improve the ugliness so that our children hopefully see a day when it isn't like this? What can I do, and I mean really do that will leave an impact, besides breaking the law. I know I can vote for leaders who I think will help make a difference. I know I can write letters to local law enforcement agencies when they are in the wrong, but these just seem like they won't help.
The biggest thing we can do is call people out for being racist in our real lives.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)
Ugh first it's no ipads or devices to help keep my child entertained instead of completely losing her shit in a restaurant. Now it's just ignorance.
christidee you really are not helping the whole BEC status you have going on.
1. I'm not exactly sure what BEC stands for or means. 2. I said I am naive about this subject. Reading this post is enlightening, educational, and eye opening. Heck, before this forum I didn't even know that some African American women had a fear of having a boy because of how ugly our society can be. That is just plain awful. 3. I thought I was pretty clear in my last post. Yes, I know there is oppression and discrimination and white privilege, but I just don't get why it still exists. I don't get why because I don't see how people can still think that way, and I acknowledged that I don't like how people still think that way. We supposedly are a nation of people whom are all created equally. Why can't out country truly live out those words?
and the whole iPads things, that is me, and I acknowledged it wasn't okay to judge, and I apologized for offending people because that wasn't my intent. It is my belief for my child, and I will keep that within the confines of me raising my child and not judge others who think differently.
I think one thing to realize is that it's not always a level of conscious thinking or blatant action, a (to borrow from CEP) white hood and a fiery cross. Racism can be shown in a small automatic reaction. Ever unconsciously clutch your purse tighter at passing young black male? Maybe closely watch one walk around a convenience store, just in case? I am absolutely ashamed to admit that I have caught myself doing both and had to chastise myself for this reaction, because I do realize how very wrong it is. I did not grow up in a racist household whatsoever. Where does this reaction come from?
I'm not accusing you of racism, btw, just providing an example of how it's more complex than simply saying color doesn't matter. And my deepest apologies to those who are affected by racism. I am truly ashamed to be admitting this.
Post by dixeedeluxe on Aug 20, 2014 7:29:35 GMT -5
there is a term that is used that forgives white people for being racist (and men from being mysoginists, etc) while still urging them to think about it: Unconcious Bias. it's still racism (and sexism). it's in us. but we can change it. we just have to recognize it and stop making excuses.
it's not easy. and i trust anyone here would call anyone else out on it when you see it. but then allow room for discussion and growth.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)
Post by spaghetticat on Aug 20, 2014 9:26:39 GMT -5
A teacher on my FB posted some stupid article about how the riots are making the news but the cop was doing his job and race has nothing to do with it. Ugh. A teacher.
I'm so upset by this Ferguson stuff. It's just sickening to me that we still have this kind of racism in our country and that plus the militarization of police is terrifying to me.
1. I'm not exactly sure what BEC stands for or means. 2. I said I am naive about this subject. Reading this post is enlightening, educational, and eye opening. Heck, before this forum I didn't even know that some African American women had a fear of having a boy because of how ugly our society can be. That is just plain awful. 3. I thought I was pretty clear in my last post. Yes, I know there is oppression and discrimination and white privilege, but I just don't get why it still exists. I don't get why because I don't see how people can still think that way, and I acknowledged that I don't like how people still think that way. We supposedly are a nation of people whom are all created equally. Why can't out country truly live out those words?
and the whole iPads things, that is me, and I acknowledged it wasn't okay to judge, and I apologized for offending people because that wasn't my intent. It is my belief for my child, and I will keep that within the confines of me raising my child and not judge others who think differently.
I think one thing to realize is that it's not always a level of conscious thinking or blatant action, a (to borrow from CEP) white hood and a fiery cross. Racism can be shown in a small automatic reaction. Ever unconsciously clutch your purse tighter at passing young black male? Maybe closely watch one walk around a convenience store, just in case? I am absolutely ashamed to admit that I have caught myself doing both and had to chastise myself for this reaction, because I do realize how very wrong it is. I did not grow up in a racist household whatsoever. Where does this reaction come from?
I'm not accusing you of racism, btw, just providing an example of how it's more complex than simply saying color doesn't matter. And my deepest apologies to those who are affected by racism. I am truly ashamed to be admitting this.
I think that's probably because you grew up in the greater Detroit area. They are always vilifying the African Americans on the news and radio. Saying they destroyed Detroit and that whenever they move into the suburbs they bring down the property value and everyone moved out of Detroit to get away from them. Also it's only ever black criminals on the Detroit news.
I think one thing to realize is that it's not always a level of conscious thinking or blatant action, a (to borrow from CEP) white hood and a fiery cross. Racism can be shown in a small automatic reaction. Ever unconsciously clutch your purse tighter at passing young black male? Maybe closely watch one walk around a convenience store, just in case? I am absolutely ashamed to admit that I have caught myself doing both and had to chastise myself for this reaction, because I do realize how very wrong it is. I did not grow up in a racist household whatsoever. Where does this reaction come from?
I'm not accusing you of racism, btw, just providing an example of how it's more complex than simply saying color doesn't matter. And my deepest apologies to those who are affected by racism. I am truly ashamed to be admitting this.
I think that's probably because you grew up in the greater Detroit area. They are always vilifying the African Americans on the news and radio. Saying they destroyed Detroit and that whenever they move into the suburbs they bring down the property value and everyone moved out of Detroit to get away from them. Also it's only ever black criminals on the Detroit news.
I'm actually from the Saginaw area, although never from the actual city. Out here I'm not sure the news bias is as bad. The rural outlying crime is predominantly white and generally well covered.
Post by creamsiclechica on Aug 20, 2014 12:54:50 GMT -5
What you can do is educate yourself on biases and privileges that you might not have been aware of. You can did disparity where it lies and tell others. You can strike down racism and ignorance wherever you see it. You can be an advocate in your own life. You can be an example to others. You can refuse to be quiet when someone makes a comment in your real life conversations and on Facebook. You are in a unique position because you're a teacher and have access to young and impressionable people who could gain so much from simply having their perspectives changed.
We have to raise our generations to be fair and equal. We just can't wish that things were they way they should be. Speaking and living that example IS action, and probably the most important. Every single movement that's been successful in history started as a grassroots campaign. Be relentless in your crusade to TEACH out youth how to live equality. Don't be afraid of someone or somethig just because society has conditioned you to do so. Stand up and be heard.
I've been following it. It is hard to determine what the real truth is from what I read. Regardless if it was murder or self defense, many of the protestors are going about protesting the wrong way.
I hope the truth is fully revealed and justice, whatever it may be, is served.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He was unarmed, so what makes you think that this might be self defense?
I am so fucking sick and tired of that the line about protestors going about it the wrong way. What way should we go about it? There was no rioting when Eric Garner was killed, none when Trayvon Martin was killed, and so many countless others that we don't even know about. So no rioting may not be the best option but when you have a legal system that doesn't seem to work for you, I can see getting angry. I'm fucking angry. You see Michael Brown, I see a person who could easily be my husband, one of my brothers, or my son. Our lives aren't worthless, and we don't deserve to be treated as such. If you have an alternative solution, I'm all ears.
I've been avoiding this thread because I just can't handle this shit ... but I just wanted to say, "FUCK YEAH" to this.
Post by dixeedeluxe on Aug 20, 2014 16:01:34 GMT -5
so this isn't the same type of situation as MB, AT ALL, but do things like this happen in your cities? it really constantly happens here. i mean, this is from today.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)