Am I selfish or is DH out of touch?

[pescalita]

In all seriousness, this is hard. I completely agree with your philosophy, and it would be really tough to make decisions if my H didn't agree with it as well.

[wanderlustmom]

Aug 21, 2014 7:37:10 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Aug 20, 2014 21:56:53 GMT -5 wanderlustmom said:

I agree that you have to look at the best fit for your child.

We decided on public and a point nobody has made--we wanted a community school. It's important to us they go to school with their neighbors. So much easier to have quality time by running next door versus arranging a car play date.

Also I would need to work full time and I very much like my 20 hour week. Our trips would be more drive to the beach versus fly to Europe.

We bought in the best public school district in the state and I agree there are trade offs. We do need to supplement a lot at home (even with gifted and talented) , bigger class sizes and less differentiated learning. Also Kirkette is right--wealthy public still has plenty of out of touch dilemmas. But overall, I volunteer a lot at the school which makes it feel smaller and I advocate for my kids to get the strong teachers. DH went to terrible terrible schools and still managed to get a scholarship for engineering.

Interestingly we have found a community private school where we have 4 kids from our street at the same school, so we kind of have the best of both. It is also why we picked the school we did, because it is a 'neighborhood' school. 

I think we both live in the same city (ATL) and you live where I went to school, if I remember from other posts. The amount of wealth at my high school is definitely comparable to the amount of wealth at the private school we are at now. I grew up in a white bubble (everyone called our school the EC snobs) and that area is definitely not the real world. 

From your first point, I am glad other kids in your neighborhood are at your school. I do talk to lot of people that move to east cobb looking for more of a community school from places like Brookhaven and Buckhead. They want their children to go with neighborhood kids to grade school, middle and high.

Have you been to east cobb lately? Our school is extremely diverse by nationalities though not by income but you've acknowledged wealth diversity isn't something you get at private either. 

I know there is the ITP/OTP debate forever in Atlanta but I wouldn't live in an area that didn't have diversity and the high school you mentioned is actually diverse now--though I know it didn't use to be.

[frlcb]

Aug 21, 2014 13:52:46 GMT -5 wanderlustmom said:

Aug 21, 2014 7:37:10 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Interestingly we have found a community private school where we have 4 kids from our street at the same school, so we kind of have the best of both. It is also why we picked the school we did, because it is a 'neighborhood' school. 

I think we both live in the same city (ATL) and you live where I went to school, if I remember from other posts. The amount of wealth at my high school is definitely comparable to the amount of wealth at the private school we are at now. I grew up in a white bubble (everyone called our school the EC snobs) and that area is definitely not the real world. 

From your first point, I am glad other kids in your neighborhood are at your school. I do talk to lot of people that move to east cobb looking for more of a community school from places like Brookhaven and Buckhead. They want their children to go with neighborhood kids to grade school, middle and high.

Have you been to east cobb lately? Our school is extremely diverse by nationalities though not by income but you've acknowledged wealth diversity isn't something you get at private either. 

I know there is the ITP/OTP debate forever in Atlanta but I wouldn't live in an area that didn't have diversity and the high school you mentioned is actually diverse now--though I know it didn't use to be.

I live in Brookhaven and I do know people who've moved to e cobb for schools but that is changing, our public school is doing really well and people are moving to
Brookhaven for the schools. And we have several great private schools in our area, so you don't lose the sense of community if you go private. My son plays soccer and his team is a mix of public and private kids, so they all know each other.

I have a ton of friends who live in e cobb, most in the same school districts that we went to, I'm glad to hear it is more diverse than it used to be, which wouldn't be hard to do

My point is that it is possible to go private and have a sense of community and be in school with neighbors.

[wanderlustmom]

Aug 21, 2014 10:13:28 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Aug 20, 2014 21:56:53 GMT -5 wanderlustmom said:

I agree that you have to look at the best fit for your child.

We decided on public and a point nobody has made--we wanted a community school. It's important to us they go to school with their neighbors. So much easier to have quality time by running next door versus arranging a car play date.

Also I would need to work full time and I very much like my 20 hour week. Our trips would be more drive to the beach versus fly to Europe.

We bought in the best public school district in the state and I agree there are trade offs. We do need to supplement a lot at home (even with gifted and talented) , bigger class sizes and less differentiated learning. Also Kirkette is right--wealthy public still has plenty of out of touch dilemmas. But overall, I volunteer a lot at the school which makes it feel smaller and I advocate for my kids to get the strong teachers. DH went to terrible terrible schools and still managed to get a scholarship for engineering.

DH would accuse you of being selfish and wanting "the sweetest vacations" rather than the best opportunities you could get for your son.

I obviously disagree with that because I think that good opportunities in life comprise of a lot of things including travel, financial security, downtime, etc.  He says he is "open" to seeing what the public schools can offer, but I don't see how one can reason with him.

Anyway.  He is fine keeping DS in our daycare until it's time for kindergarten and we will try all options at the time.  In the meantime, I need to get more information about how the magnet programs in HISD work and we're going to see some of the private options.

I understand! I do think its great that private school is a huge priority for him, hard to argue with someone who wants to spend money on education. The private school/public school argument will probably go on forever and I'm not sure what we'd do if an extra 40K came into our laps. Probably still keep them in public now because they are 7 and 9 and established. I agree with posters that it's just one factor and not end all be all and I think this thread shows it's a personal decision. I own up to my decision being a bit selfish to work part time and want better vacations but hopefully that goodwill will rub off on my kids. Happy wife happy life right? Anyway, I want to do what works for my kids within reason and this seems to be working.

[wanderlustmom]

Aug 21, 2014 13:59:27 GMT -5 frlcb said:

Aug 21, 2014 13:52:46 GMT -5 wanderlustmom said:

From your first point, I am glad other kids in your neighborhood are at your school. I do talk to lot of people that move to east cobb looking for more of a community school from places like Brookhaven and Buckhead. They want their children to go with neighborhood kids to grade school, middle and high.

Have you been to east cobb lately? Our school is extremely diverse by nationalities though not by income but you've acknowledged wealth diversity isn't something you get at private either. 

I know there is the ITP/OTP debate forever in Atlanta but I wouldn't live in an area that didn't have diversity and the high school you mentioned is actually diverse now--though I know it didn't use to be.

I live in Brookhaven and I do know people who've moved to e cobb for schools but that is changing, our public school is doing really well and people are moving to
Brookhaven for the schools. And we have several great private schools in our area, so you don't lose the sense of community if you go private. My son plays soccer and his team is a mix of public and private kids, so they all know each other.

I have a ton of friends who live in e cobb, most in the same school districts that we went to, I'm glad to hear it is more diverse than it used to be, which wouldn't be hard to do

My point is that it is possible to go private and have a sense of community and be in school with neighbors.

I am glad you have that sense of community but it's not to be assumed like it is with public--meaning going to school with neighbors. I think we are both happy with our schools and there are pros and cons to public and private. 

[anna7602]

Do I have to read the 6 pages of responses to respond? I keep trying, but then DS needs to nurse or DD needs something or I have to eat and at this rate, it will be several hours before I get to read all previous answers.

Basically, I am with @littlemoxie. It is more important to me to have disposable income for extra-curriculars and travel and regular date nights and to have some flexibility with work (ie, ability to take lesser paying jobs if they are more fulfilling, etc.) than to pour all money into private school. But, I am also in an area where private school would be a minimum $30-40K/year commitment, or more. That feels crazy for elementary school. I feel differently about college, but I also took a shitton of loans out to go to the college of my choice.

[sarabi]

Aug 21, 2014 8:53:38 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Aug 20, 2014 23:36:35 GMT -5 sarabi said:

There are separate classes for magnet and neighborhood kids. You'd be in the neighborhood class in your IB school if you aren't accepted into the IB program. 

Just saw this.

So like River Oaks Elementary (hahaha, at anyone living in River Oaks sending their kid to public school) is a vanguard school, so you have to test into GT to get in.  If you're just some lowly River Oaks kid, are there seriously special "bad" classes for you?

I actually went to River Oaks When I went, the entire school was test in. The neighborhood parents petitioned for access to the school about ten years ago. So as I understand it now, it's not "bad class", but I do believe there are neighborhood classes and magnet classes. 

[redheadk]

Out of curiosity, what is his standard for success? And why does he think that having to alter your lifestyle to afford private is worth it in terms of long-term benefits? ETA: And how does he think that his school experience benefited him over others with similar intelligence and drive that went to public school? 

Anecdotes, but the people I know that went to ritzy private schools are doing the same overall as their public school peers. Some are doing extremely well (super wealthy), some are making in the 150-300k range a year, and some are youth ministers (seriously). I kind of feel like smart, driven people are going to be successful, whereas lazy slackers are going to be lazy slackers and it's more the parents attitudes and the kid's temperament that will sway that vs the school environment, so long as the school is a reasonably decent one.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2014 16:01:46 GMT -5 incogneato said:

The dirty secret of education is that kids with supportive, highly educated parents do well pretty much no matter where they go. That's why the "good" schools look so good- those kids were going to do well even if the teacher slept in the back of the room. The "bad" schools sometimes have the most dedicated teachers but are dealing with issues of high student turnover and poverty which skew the test results. I taught at "struggling" schools and saw AMAZING teaching and saw the students who actually stayed at the school for years make amazing strides.

I'm biased because I taught public for years but, no, I would not pay that much for private school. DH went to prep school and loved it but he's still on board for public.

This x 100. 

I also taught in a "bad" school for a year and saw really great, dedicated teaching (some not so great teachers too of course) but what was REALLY eye opening was when I got hired into a district that is often in the top 50-100 in those Newsweek Polls (which at the time was based solely on AP scores, not sure if that has changed since or not). Guys, there's nothing too special going on there. It's all related to parental background and money. 

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2014 13:31:33 GMT -5 @choco said:

@mrsbecky07, this guy sounds AWFULLY familiar and I will die laughing if it's the same one I'm thinking of. The other Andover alum I know who also went to our college was a drunk mess while we lived together for a summer but did end up being a doctor. ANECDOTES! lol.

He's a lawyer now so he's not the doctor lol! He used to be heavy set but apparently lost a lot of weight (that was how his girlfriend always described him. "See he used to be fat....."). First name was Eric

[redheadk]

Aug 21, 2014 16:01:46 GMT -5 incogneato said:

The dirty secret of education is that kids with supportive, highly educated parents do well pretty much no matter where they go. That's why the "good" schools look so good- those kids were going to do well even if the teacher slept in the back of the room. The "bad" schools sometimes have the most dedicated teachers but are dealing with issues of high student turnover and poverty which skew the test results. I taught at "struggling" schools and saw AMAZING teaching and saw the students who actually stayed at the school for years make amazing strides.

I'm biased because I taught public for years but, no, I would not pay that much for private school. DH went to prep school and loved it but he's still on board for public.

Can I like this a few more times? ALL THIS. 

[redheadk]

Aug 21, 2014 16:36:08 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Aug 21, 2014 15:04:04 GMT -5 redheadk said:

Out of curiosity, what is his standard for success? And why does he think that having to alter your lifestyle to afford private is worth it in terms of long-term benefits? ETA: And how does he think that his school experience benefited him over others with similar intelligence and drive that went to public school? 

Anecdotes, but the people I know that went to ritzy private schools are doing the same overall as their public school peers. Some are doing extremely well (super wealthy), some are making in the 150-300k range a year, and some are youth ministers (seriously). I kind of feel like smart, driven people are going to be successful, whereas lazy slackers are going to be lazy slackers and it's more the parents attitudes and the kid's temperament that will sway that vs the school environment, so long as the school is a reasonably decent one.

Private school is best- most opportunities and advantage. Don't you want the best for your kid? Then sacrifice!

That's it. I honestly wasn't against private school, but his attitude is making me be like "well, if this is what happens when you go to one, eff that."

Which is why we aren't talking about it again for a while.

But how did those opportunities and advantages help him over other intelligent people that received a public school education? Did it REALLY help or is it just something he likes to be able to say he did?

ETA: I do think your situations is compounded by where you live, since it's not as cut and dry as buying a house zoned to a good school and calling it a day, but I think his dismissal of public schools in general is really coming from a place of narrow-mindedness, which is pretty amusing when you think that he wants your DS to be exposed to other cultures, peoples, etc.

[Deleted]

I've also heard and read that the prep schools you're all talking about tend to be really traditional wrt teaching methods (I.e. a lot of chalk and talk). Probably because they like to hire PhDs. This can be both good and bad though. They obviously know a lot about their subject matter but most grad students do not get much exposure towards new, more progressive methodology. The emphasis is on their research so they're not always the best teachers. Plus a lot of kids struggle with learning solely from lectures and the Socratic method. So, depending on what type of learner your child is, it may not be the "best of the best" for him anyway. Just some food for thought.

[redheadk]

Aug 21, 2014 16:54:14 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Aug 21, 2014 16:41:07 GMT -5 @lcap said:

I've also heard and read that the prep schools you're all talking about tend to be really traditional wrt teaching methods (I.e. a lot of chalk and talk). Probably because they like to hire PhDs. This can be both good and bad though. They obviously know a lot about their subject matter but most grad students do not get much exposure towards new, more progressive methodology. The emphasis is on their research so they're not always the best teachers. Plus a lot of kids struggle with learning solely from lectures and the Socratic method. So, depending on what type of learner your child is, it may not be the "best of the best" for him anyway. Just some food for thought.

We've taken this into account. We heard this about our previous front runner and it started to be a turn off. This is not he case for some of the other schools we are considering. But we are touring and talking to people, not just assuming the best/most expensive are awesome.

redheadk - he thinks the teachers in private are better because they are not "union scum" who will just say he has ADHD if/when he acts up. He is basically spouting his dad's Fox News talking points.

But then he starts in with learning Latin in grade school, which helped him learn languages more easily. Independent study Mandarin in high school. More individualized attention. And whether we will have the time to add enough extra stuff if he goes to public to make up for this.

He also thinks that public school teachers are more worried about testing and making sure the bottom kids catch up rather than challenging those already over performing. I think this is one of his more valid points, but it is still very teacher dependent and could be ameliorated if he was in a magnet or GT program.

We don't disagree that St Johns is probably better than your average HISD school. But what incremental benefit do you get there vs being at one of the best schools in HISD plus the extra stuff your parents will be able to pay for? That's the issue. He thinks we should move mountains for that tiny extra opportunity/advantage. I'm not convinced it's worth it.

Well, no teachers union in TX (at least not what he's talking about)

I definitely get his point about testing but it is not a huge issue in every school. DD's future school is always rated Exemplary (with a high rate of Commended students, meaning they made an "A" on the tests, percentage-wise) but, from what I know from current parents and the teachers I know there, they are not test-pushers. Basically, the kids are high performing thanks to their backgrounds, parents, etc, and it just takes care of itself. In a more economically diverse school, I would be much more concerned. Either way, it is teacher dependent but, then, everything is ALWAYS teacher dependent. Typically, in any situation, you are going to focus on your middle, then differentiate down for your struggling learners and up for your high-achievers. It's where the middle is that's the issue, of course.

With school starting soon, I'd start lurking on some of your potential public schools websites. Check out the teachers sites, in particular, as many will have the syllabus and other info available there. Check it out and see what you think. Compare to the private schools you are considering.

ETA: Also look under Curriculum & Instruction for the district curriculum guides.

[Marmee]

I haven't read the entire thread...but I'd sacrifice most anything to send my kids to a top notch school. I'd definitely give up vacations & go back to work for it. My DD1 is dyslexic & we considered sending her to a private school (about $15k more than our current private) that caters to high IQ kids with ADHD/Dyslexia. I would have had to go back to work especially since I have 2 more in parochial school. Instead we tried & were successful with tutoring ($200/wk for 18mo) & I worked P/T. I will say I wouldn't sacrifice having another kid for private school..guess that's the line for me.

[Jalapeñomel]

Private school teachers here do not have to have a teaching license, just FYI. That is certainly something to take into consideration,

[noodleskooze]

I taught in a private school without a teaching license. I have a degree in the subject I taught, though. At my school (PK-12), lower school teachers are usually licensed while upper school teachers have degrees in the subject area they're teaching.

[rugbywife]

Aug 21, 2014 16:01:46 GMT -5 incogneato said:

The dirty secret of education is that kids with supportive, highly educated parents do well pretty much no matter where they go. That's why the "good" schools look so good- those kids were going to do well even if the teacher slept in the back of the room. The "bad" schools sometimes have the most dedicated teachers but are dealing with issues of high student turnover and poverty which skew the test results. I taught at "struggling" schools and saw AMAZING teaching and saw the students who actually stayed at the school for years make amazing strides.

I'm biased because I taught public for years but, no, I would not pay that much for private school. DH went to prep school and loved it but he's still on board for public.

This x eleventybillion.

I went to public, semi private, private and international schools in 5 countries. I can't say my education varied enough in any one setting to justify a 30k price tag (although I believe my high school cost 'only' 16k plus boarding at the time, but I could be wrong).

My kid will never go to private school. The only exception I could see would be if she is a genius. Not gifted, like crazy ass genius. Other than that? She goes to public school and we support/challenge her at home if needed.

*I have never gone to school in the US
**I am a public school Vice Principal and DH is a public school teacher
***I am pretty sure my parents are still slightly disappointed that I am not a doctor or lawyer.

[rupertpenny]

@littlemoxie this is not what you are talking about really, but you guys should move to Hong Kong. Mandarin-speaking, US-trained lawyers are in high demand and there are plenty of fancy schools for your DS to attend. The fanciest might be $30K a year, but I think a lot are much less (I hope so anyway, this is actually something I need to start looking into too...ugh).

[bronxgirl]

Aug 21, 2014 16:31:51 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

Aug 21, 2014 16:27:58 GMT -5 @mrsbecky07 said:

He's a lawyer now so he's not the doctor lol! He used to be heavy set but apparently lost a lot of weight (that was how his girlfriend always described him. "See he used to be fat....."). First name was Eric

Oh, fat Eric!

It's Cartman!

[h]

Lack of state teaching certification doesn't bother me as long as we are talking about a good private school with reasonably selective hiring practices. I was taught by lots of amazing teachers who didn't have teaching certifications (not because they failed the test, but because they never took it since they had always taught in private schools). For the most part they all had degrees in their subjects, many had masters, and a good handful had PhDs. I am not at all convinced that the testing in my state is rigorous enough to say much about a person's qualifications to teach anyway. I would be upset if my kids' school was routinely hiring teachers who couldn't pass the state test, but I don't think that is the case.

[fryjack2]

We have this conversation a lot in our house. Private school here starts at 27k+ for kindergarten and upwards of 40k for 5-12 grade. We have twins. That's a lot of post tax dollars/year.

H went to private and Ivy league. I went to a combination of public and private. We both ended up at the best hospital in the country.

Our current options that we are deciding between are:

1. Public elementary and private high school

2. Private elementary and hope they test into a public high that happens to be one of the best in the country

3. Move to the burbs once the twins are in 1st grade.

4. private all the way through and give up a lot, and the chance that the boys will feel poor when they are far from it.

5. try to get into one of the top 3 public elementary schools and see what the experience is like for a couple years before deciding.