Ethical money question-office rent *update in OP

[Deleted]

Dude. Why would you do all of this without a contract? Lesson learned.

[littlemisssunshine]

Aug 23, 2014 7:44:33 GMT -5 milsaroo said:

I never saw an answer- do you have receipts (or bank statements) from paying her rent? I would go after her for the $1200. What does the other friend think?

I have the check images from my bank. It came out that Friend A wasn't paying her rent to Friend B, thus contributing to the rent not being paid and our forced exit.  Those two are still friends. I'm not sure I want to go after her for the $1200. She doesn't have it anyway.

I did text Friend B yesterday that I wanted to see a paid receipt for July's rent before paying her the $200. She was quite upset and responded saying that we had a verbal agreement that I would pay her $200 for use of the office and access to a printer and internet. She provided those things therefore I should pay her regardless of her paying the landlord or not. 

This is what I struggle with, she provided what she was suppose to: an office for the month of July. Do I ethically still have an obligation to pay her? Even if her actions led to an eviction, forced move, ton of stress, extra work and the possibility of me being out $650? (although I am filing a police report on that Monday). 

[RandZB]

Still wouldn't pay her. Use of an office, printer, and internet was contingent on remaining tenants of said office. She did not hold up her end of the agreement, even though you had use of those things for the last month or however long she had not been paying rent. You paid her "rent" in good faith that she was paying the landlord, and she was not. She pocketed your money for her own use and got you kicked out of your office location, which has affected your livelihood. She needs to count herself lucky that you aren't planning on ruining her business and leave you alone.

[lime]

Aug 23, 2014 10:08:53 GMT -5 littlemisssunshine said:

Aug 23, 2014 7:44:33 GMT -5 milsaroo said:

I never saw an answer- do you have receipts (or bank statements) from paying her rent? I would go after her for the $1200. What does the other friend think?

I have the check images from my bank. It came out that Friend A wasn't paying her rent to Friend B, thus contributing to the rent not being paid and our forced exit.  Those two are still friends. I'm not sure I want to go after her for the $1200. She doesn't have it anyway.

I did text Friend B yesterday that I wanted to see a paid receipt for July's rent before paying her the $200. She was quite upset and responded saying that we had a verbal agreement that I would pay her $200 for use of the office and access to a printer and internet. She provided those things therefore I should pay her regardless of her paying the landlord or not. 

This is what I struggle with, she provided what she was suppose to: an office for the month of July. Do I ethically still have an obligation to pay her? Even if her actions led to an eviction, forced move, ton of stress, extra work and the possibility of me being out $650? (although I am filing a police report on that Monday). 

Well, no. Not really. 

The LANDLORD that got screwed out of the rent provided that. 

So, I'm still on team don't give her the $200. 

[frlcb]

Aug 23, 2014 10:08:53 GMT -5 littlemisssunshine said:

Aug 23, 2014 7:44:33 GMT -5 milsaroo said:

I never saw an answer- do you have receipts (or bank statements) from paying her rent? I would go after her for the $1200. What does the other friend think?

I have the check images from my bank. It came out that Friend A wasn't paying her rent to Friend B, thus contributing to the rent not being paid and our forced exit.  Those two are still friends. I'm not sure I want to go after her for the $1200. She doesn't have it anyway.

I did text Friend B yesterday that I wanted to see a paid receipt for July's rent before paying her the $200. She was quite upset and responded saying that we had a verbal agreement that I would pay her $200 for use of the office and access to a printer and internet. She provided those things therefore I should pay her regardless of her paying the landlord or not. 

This is what I struggle with, she provided what she was suppose to: an office for the month of July. Do I ethically still have an obligation to pay her? Even if her actions led to an eviction, forced move, ton of stress, extra work and the possibility of me being out $650? (although I am filing a police report on that Monday). 

No. If she didn't pay the rent in July then you don't owe her anything. She doesn't get to pocket your $200. The $200 should be going to the landlord. At this point you have been evicted, she stole $1200 from you and caused you to lose $650 more. Do not pay her anything.

[dexteroni]

Holy crap, I'm sorry you're dealing with this! Your so-called friend is a huge asshole. You've gotten a lot of good advice already, but no way would I pay her the $200. Verbal agreement my ass. You also had a verbal agreement that she would pay the rent, and she didn't, and ended up getting you evicted with hardly any notice, while you were on vacation. And she has lied to you who knows how many times. (I mean, there is no way she didn't get evicted after not paying the rent for 6 months. Come on.) I would reply to her little shitfit telling her exactly that.

I hope you take legal action against her for the $1200, and the $650 if it turns out she had anything to do with it. I think you're misaligning your priorities a bit if you feel you should let this go in the interest of keeping a civil relationship. My guess is the reason A and B are still friends is because they're both at fault, so it's kind of like they're in this together. Don't feel like you have to remain civil just because they are. She's at best dishonest and unethical, and very possibly (probably) a criminal. I don't see any reason to protect her. I think I would tell everyone I knew, actually, lol, but that's probably not the best plan.

It's probably better that you have your own office anyway, so this doesn't happen again, and so all the checks and money orders are in a secure location. I would blast your renters with multiple reminders to minimize the chances of them sending it to the old office.

Good luck, and I hope the transition is smooth!

[dexteroni]

Aug 23, 2014 10:08:53 GMT -5 littlemisssunshine said:

I did text Friend B yesterday that I wanted to see a paid receipt for July's rent before paying her the $200. She was quite upset and responded saying that we had a verbal agreement  

Also, that means she didn't pay it. Otherwise she would have just sent the receipt.

[keh2oblue]

Yeah, hell no! It's not like she actually paid the rent, so you don't owe her anything. If you need an excuse, reply back that you'll take it out of the $650 money order she cost you buy moving your office at the last minute FOR NOT PAYING THE RENT.

[fbf2006]

Aug 23, 2014 7:16:07 GMT -5 4speedy said:

I don't get why you would pay the landlord directly. YOU are not on the lease. Your business deal is with your shady friend. You were in the office during the month of July. Per your agreement with her, you owe her $200. Whether she pays HER obligations or not is completely up to her. If she doesn't, the landlord will come after HER not you.

I actually agree with this. I'd pay her the $200. The agreement was with her and you used the office and facilities that month. The landlord will go after her.

[10nille]

So, B expects you to pay, but A doesn't pay and therefore you are all evicted? Do you see how crazy this all is on her part to ask you for rent? I'd tell her to take you to court and you keep all the documentation of what she cost you by having your office and personal stuff confiscated by the landlord. B is one step away from being a crook.
She is trying to hook you with the verbal agreement, but she also verbally or in an email did not warn you of the eviction.

[frlcb]

Aug 23, 2014 15:49:33 GMT -5 fbf2006 said:

Aug 23, 2014 7:16:07 GMT -5 4speedy said:

I don't get why you would pay the landlord directly. YOU are not on the lease. Your business deal is with your shady friend. You were in the office during the month of July. Per your agreement with her, you owe her $200. Whether she pays HER obligations or not is completely up to her. If she doesn't, the landlord will come after HER not you.

I actually agree with this. I'd pay her the $200. The agreement was with her and you used the office and facilities that month. The landlord will go after her.

Because the OP believed her money, for 6 months, was going towards the lease. Instead it was lining her friends pocket which in turn got them evicted, which caused a lot of trouble for the OP. Her friend is super shady.

[scout8]

If she is claiming that you had a verbal lease agreement with her, then she needs to follow the leasing laws for your area. She doesn't get to claim the benefits of a lease with you and then ignore all the rules. Since you are in property management, I am sure you know the landlord tenant laws for your area. Did she follow them by giving you notice before evicting you? No, I didn't think so.

If she is going to argue that she had a verbal agreement with you, then she has to play by all the rules, not just the ones that benefit her.

[msmerymac]

Aug 23, 2014 15:49:33 GMT -5 fbf2006 said:

Aug 23, 2014 7:16:07 GMT -5 4speedy said:

I don't get why you would pay the landlord directly. YOU are not on the lease. Your business deal is with your shady friend. You were in the office during the month of July. Per your agreement with her, you owe her $200. Whether she pays HER obligations or not is completely up to her. If she doesn't, the landlord will come after HER not you.

I actually agree with this. I'd pay her the $200. The agreement was with her and you used the office and facilities that month. The landlord will go after her.

If by "used the office and facilities that month," you mean, "got evicted before the end of the month with no notice per the sketchy friend and had things confiscated and put in storage, impacting her business," then sure. 

I don't know if you are necessarily wrong. She DID use the office, for $200 (which seems an extremely reasonable rent) for July. But her "friend" also created a huge headache for her. My company changed names last fall and up until June we still had a few people trying to invoice us in our old name, so I have my doubts that a few days of notice will get all of her clients to comply with the new address.

I'd say it's at LEAST a wash. And I doubt "friend" would have a leg to stand on in small claims court, which is really a question for a lawyer. 

[livinitup]

Why is this a question?

I'm afraid you are still in shock, because you are NOT thinking clearly. This woman had been pocketing your money, not paying your rent and got you evicted from your place of business. AND SHE KNEW IT. She strung you along to keep your FVCKING money and didn't give a shit that she threw all of your office into storage.

She let you go on vacation when she knew this would happen !!!!!

And you're afraid on how she'll treat you in the small business circles you travel? YOU?!!

[mrst2]

Aug 23, 2014 16:32:33 GMT -5 livinitup said:

Why is this a question?

I'm afraid you are still in shock, because you are NOT thinking clearly. This woman had been pocketing your money, not paying your rent and got you evicted from your place of business. AND SHE KNEW IT. She strung you along to keep your FVCKING money and didn't give a shit that she threw all of your office into storage.

She let you go on vacation when she knew this would happen !!!!!

And you're afraid on how she'll treat you in the small business circles you travel? YOU?!!

All of this!

[livinitup]

Aug 23, 2014 15:49:33 GMT -5 fbf2006 said:

Aug 23, 2014 7:16:07 GMT -5 4speedy said:

I don't get why you would pay the landlord directly. YOU are not on the lease. Your business deal is with your shady friend. You were in the office during the month of July. Per your agreement with her, you owe her $200. Whether she pays HER obligations or not is completely up to her. If she doesn't, the landlord will come after HER not you.

I actually agree with this. I'd pay her the $200. The agreement was with her and you used the office and facilities that month. The landlord will go after her.

Ha ha ha. Should she pay $50 for the first week in August, too? How about we just pro-rate right up to the day her business got boxed-up and tossed out? Did the movers come in the morning or the afternoon - should she pay a half-day of "rent" if they came after 1 pm??

The poster had a RIGHT TO NOTICE.

[littlemisssunshine]

Update in OP. Thank you for all the great advice ladies!!

[Mimi]

How old is friend B? She just sounds young for acting so stupid.

[littlemisssunshine]

Aug 26, 2014 8:20:34 GMT -5 Mimi said:

How old is friend B? She just sounds young for acting so stupid.

She's 43. I'm 26. 

[scout8]

Glad you got the money order figured out.

Your "friend" is BSC! Good riddance!

[livinitup]

She should be groveling at your feet and begging you to forgive her - not accusing you of wrong doing.

People are damn entitled.

[dexteroni]

I'm glad the money order is taken care of! Your friend is one crazy bitch, but I think that was already established.

Aug 21, 2014 17:22:26 GMT -5 littlemisssunshine said:

Um, yeah, when you don't pay rent for 6 months you get evicted. And you do have a say in the matter! You pay your rent!!!

Have you said as much to her? Does she know you know what kind of fuckery she had been up to? At this point, any hope of a civil relationship is out the window, so I would lay it all out. Let her know you know she hadn't been paying the rent and that she lied about it when you asked her, that she basically stole $1200 from you, got you evicted on no notice, costing you money and a lot of headache due to not fault of your own, and now has the gall to ask you for more money? She should be ashamed of her behavior and the things she's saying to you. She's lucky you don't pursue legal action against her. etc. It will shut her up and hopefully stop her from badmouthing you all around town, which with as crazy as she's revealing herself to be, sounds like a real possibility.

[Velvetshady]

Yeah, I would get, in writing, from the landlord that she had not paid the rent for 6 months. Then I would send a firm response to dipshit stating you have confirmation that she did not use your prior months payment for the intended use, and as such you owe her nothing. And if she contacts you again, you will be taking her to small claims court for her return the money she "misdirected".

Honestly, if she is badmouthing you, I'd want to take her to court just to get your side out without resorting to "gossip".

[Mimi]

Aug 26, 2014 8:54:12 GMT -5 Velvetshady said:

Yeah, I would get, in writing, from the landlord that she had not paid the rent for 6 months. Then I would send a firm response to dipshit stating you have confirmation that she did not use your prior months payment for the intended use, and as such you owe her nothing. And if she contacts you again, you will be taking her to small claims court for her return the money she "misdirected".

Honestly, if she is badmouthing you, I'd want to take her to court just to get your side out without resorting to "gossip".

I agree with this.

[ECB]

Aug 23, 2014 10:08:53 GMT -5 littlemisssunshine said:

I did text Friend B yesterday that I wanted to see a paid receipt for July's rent before paying her the $200. She was quite upset and responded saying that we had a verbal agreement that I would pay her $200 for use of the office and access to a printer and internet. She provided those things therefore I should pay her regardless of her paying the landlord or not. 

A part of this agreement, though, is the expectation that you'll have an office NEXT MONTH too.  She pulled the rug out from under you w/ absolutely NO warning AND while you were away too! 

[Deleted]

This woman is really crazy. Sounds like it's probably best to distance yourself.

[mrsd2006]

WOW. I would be asking her for my six months rent money back. Ditto c citrusmint.

[Deleted]

Wow - she is nuts. I'd also be concerned about her badmouthing you and it affecting your business since it's a small market as you mentioned.

[justjen]

Whoa. WTF. She STOLE from you. I don't see she how she justifies getting all high and mighty.

[citrusmint]

Just read your update...

Oh no, this can not be.

She's badmouthing YOU after she embezzled from you and now she's crying woe is me poor me I'm down on my luck?

NOPE. Shut it down. Shut it down right now via criminal and/or civil court.

She absolutely does not get to trash talk you after you basically GIFTED her this money thanks to her cheating stealing ass.

Maybe I'm irrationally angry for you but there's nothing in this world that I hate more than thieves and liars. When you steal from me, it's like you're stealing from my family and I take that very personally.