Among Whites, Protests Stir a Range of Emotions and a Lot of

[IIOY]

I read this earlier. Thanks for posting.

[pixy0stix]

I've been thinking about this a lot (re: white reaction to protests). I think as a whole, we're just so used to the system working for us that it's the default answer for anything. Plus, the government has done an excellent job is villainizing the predominant form of white protest, the job strike. Our default answer as middle-class whites is "write your representative" and we all know how well that goes. I don't know where I'm going with this. I just hate that white people look at protests as a violent answer that does nothing, when protests can be a very valuable tool to a populace that often doesn't have a voice.

[IIOY]

Aug 22, 2014 9:03:11 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

Aug 22, 2014 8:49:28 GMT -5 @soudesafinado said:

“A lot of them have gotten better than fair shakes,” said Mark Johnston, a 61-year-old white merchandiser who was on the job on Thursday in Mehlville, in the mostly white and working-class southern reaches of St. Louis County. While expressing sympathy for the Brown family, he said of the events that have unfolded since the shooting — the protests, the looting, the cries of injustice — “I think it’s a crock of stuff, myself.”

bing-fucking-o! that's exactly the bullshit racist line i have heard my entire life. THAT is the number one most commonly said thing about blacks everyone i know says. EVERYONE.

Yes. I have always heard this from lower and lower-middle class white men who see affirmative action and feel left behind.

[NitaX]

I have so much to say about this article, so I'm going to pick out some things that I really identified with:

“It was eye-opening to me,” said Jim McLaughlin, the former mayor of Pasadena Hills, a small, majority-black city just south of Ferguson. That some longtime black friends of his were so pessimistic about the justice system came as a surprise.



“We interact together, we have a good time together, we integrate, but we never talk about these things,” he said. “I think the perspective of a lot of white people is not really thinking that these feelings are sitting out there. And maybe in the black community they’re not only thinking about them, they’re wondering why we’re not talking about them.”



So - this hits me because it reminds me of the discussions I tried to have around our local school systems merging. Before I could really even begin to discuss the history of school desegregation, the conversation got shut down by my friends. I get that a lot of things are 'uncomfortable', but it does no good to the larger picture if people can't explore them. We can laugh and joke about Chris Rock's Good Hair, but we can't talk about the long lasting impact of The Memphis 13 (13 elementary school kids who integrated several schools in Memphis). 

To me - this further highlights why Black Folks say they live in two worlds. I can't discuss this with you and you be ok. It's not an indictment against you personally. It's a larger examination of how society unknowingly perpetuates systemic racism.


Even some of the whites who most heartily rejected the idea of systemic injustice nonetheless said that the conflagration in Ferguson arose out of the way St. Louis neighborhoods grew and changed in stark racial patterns.



In interview after interview, people spoke of white flight from personal experience, ticking off their moves from neighborhood to neighborhood across the northern part of the county as if escaping a flood.



Again - I point to migration patterns. The right school district sounds like "lily white neighborhood!" to black folks. I had to roll my eyes when a local journalist asked "So, does it not bother anyone that all the new school board members are white?" and the folks in those communities were like BLACK PEOPLE DO LIVE HERE! Really? Because - the people running things are all white. How are their voices heard? 


“They always want to stir up to trouble, the blacks,” said David Goad, 64, a retired movie projector operator who lives in a neighborhood bordering Ferguson. “I grew up around blacks, so I know how they are,” he said. “That’s why we had to get out in 1962, because it was getting so bad.”



This was not an uncommon sentiment. But it was not universal.



Andrew Tetzlaff, 52, has been coming to the protests in Ferguson from his home in nearby Hazelwood to show his solidarity with the demonstrators. He is not alone among local whites who march on West Florissant Avenue, nor among a significant number of local whites who have expressed sympathy with the protesters’ concerns and outrage at the actions of the police.



But he still feels that too few whites in St. Louis County understand the realities of black life, for the most part, he says, because they fled from racially mixed neighborhoods.



And lastly - you sir are a bigot. I'm not quite sure "how bad I am" as a black person. And it's shit like that that keeps people moving out of areas when 2 or 3 black folks move in. My BFF said that she remembered when the last white person moved off of her block growing up. She's 38. 38 people. So in the late 80s folks were still fleeing neighborhoods when black folks moved in. That's a sad statement about life, but one people need to stop acting like doesn't dayum exist.

[sandsonik]

Aug 22, 2014 9:02:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I've been thinking about this a lot (re: white reaction to protests). I think as a whole, we're just so used to the system working for us that it's the default answer for anything.

That's not how I feel. I see the need for protesting, to make sure the cease isn't swept under the carpet. However, the justice dept is involved and awareness is high. Unless the protesters stand back, or change their focus a bit, further protests could start to seem like a mob calling for a lynching. Its a tricky line. If you demand justice you have to deal with the fact that the wheels of justice turn slowly.

Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch using proboards

[josieposy]

I have nothing nice to say. Just posting to say i read it.

[sushi]

I have to admit that even in my diverse home town, the school was something like 65% black, and that was ammunition for me going to private school. Now, the public school was objectively awful, but I'm sure a lot of that was due to white flight.

[whatnext]

Aug 22, 2014 9:02:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I've been thinking about this a lot (re: white reaction to protests). I think as a whole, we're just so used to the system working for us that it's the default answer for anything. Plus, the government has done an excellent job is villainizing the predominant form of white protest, the job strike. Our default answer as middle-class whites is "write your representative" and we all know how well that goes. I don't know where I'm going with this. I just hate that white people look at protests as a violent answer that does nothing, when protests can be a very valuable tool to a populace that often doesn't have a voice.

But this is what I don't get when it comes to white women. Maybe its where I live but I translate this to rape or domestic violence cases (not the same I know but there are parallels with the justice system and societies view), where victim blaming is rife and it doesn't always work in the victims favor, it makes me much more sympathetic to cases like this.

[summer]

Aug 23, 2014 5:26:54 GMT -5 whatnext said:

Aug 22, 2014 9:02:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I've been thinking about this a lot (re: white reaction to protests). I think as a whole, we're just so used to the system working for us that it's the default answer for anything. Plus, the government has done an excellent job is villainizing the predominant form of white protest, the job strike. Our default answer as middle-class whites is "write your representative" and we all know how well that goes. I don't know where I'm going with this. I just hate that white people look at protests as a violent answer that does nothing, when protests can be a very valuable tool to a populace that often doesn't have a voice.

But this is what I don't get when it comes to white women. Maybe its where I live but I translate this to rape or domestic violence cases (not the same I know but there are parallels with the justice system and societies view), where victim blaming is rife and it doesn't always work in the victims favor, it makes me much more sympathetic to cases like this.

I agree with this.

Also, can someone explain why people saying that there is racism somewhere makes people so personally offended. People get really defensive. Why?

I'm heterosexual and their are privileges that come with that, but it doesn’t offend me when the LGBT community says they experience discrimination. I imagine it would only bother me if I thought a) these people are unworthy of existing or b) there is a finite amount of something that they want and I need to prove I'm more worthy than them. But with something like justice and freedom from police brutality, I don't get why there's so much, "they should stop complaining!!"

And I can say those comments don't even make me angry, they hurt. Like knot in your throat hurt. Police shooting and beating folks makes me livid. But people who deny it and say "be quiet, it's not so bad," that hurts my heart. It is so very cold.

Given the known, acknowledged history of the U.S. how could they not believe us? Do they actually believe that people owned us and treated us like shit and liked it enough to fight a whole goddamned war about it, and then when that didn't work out say, "welp, guess we better be fair and give them their rights now!" Of course people in authority shit all over people in desadvantaged positions when they think they can get away with it. It's what they've ALWAYS FUCKING DONE!!!

I'm so frustrated with all of this. I still have to prove my case to the masses?? The documentation is everywhere and decades long.....aaaargh!

[ringstrue]

Ok I had no idea what the "fair shakes" line meant. Hick fail.

[IIOY]

Aug 23, 2014 6:10:11 GMT -5 summer said:

I agree with this.

Also, can someone explain why people saying that there is racism somewhere makes people so personally offended. People get really defensive. Why?

ETA: I'm on my phone and just fucked up my quote. I'm responding to DCMS.

Generally I agree with this, but I also think a big factor is that many whites think that confronting racism is a zero sum game, and that doing so will cause them socioeconomic harm. This goes to what I said the other day about lower and lower-middle class white men being particularly bitter about affirmative action; they think AA means everyone gains except for, and at the expense of, poor whites males. I think Ta-Nehisi Coates did a huge disservice to himself by using the word "reparations" in the title of an article that in actuality was an account of how the legacy of slavery haunts blacks to this day, because a lot of whites will see that word and simply ignore the piece. That's unfortunate because that article was really, really good, and very eye-opening for the direct line of causation that it drew.

[Deleted]

I think a ton of whites want to believe they really are blind to race - someone here posted it on FB earlier today about the things whites needs to stop saying to blacks, and one is "when I see you, I don't see your race." I've been guilty of that in the past, but engaging with black friends has taught me that's truly an ignorant thing to say. Of COURSE your race is part of who you are - it has shaped your experiences and certainly shaped your status as an American. But whites want to live or pretend they live in a utopia where race just gets blurred into the melting pot and everyone should be treated the exact same as them. No. It's not happening, hasn't happened, and for damn fire sure isn't bound to happen as long as whites continue along assuming blacks are satisfied with their current treatment just because they don't ever talk about it.

[rugbywife]

Aug 23, 2014 6:10:11 GMT -5 summer said:

Aug 23, 2014 5:26:54 GMT -5 whatnext said:

But this is what I don't get when it comes to white women. Maybe its where I live but I translate this to rape or domestic violence cases (not the same I know but there are parallels with the justice system and societies view), where victim blaming is rife and it doesn't always work in the victims favor, it makes me much more sympathetic to cases like this.

I agree with this.

Also, can someone explain why people saying that there is racism somewhere makes people so personally offended. People get really defensive. Why?

I'm heterosexual and their are privileges that come with that, but it doesn’t offend me when the LGBT community says they experience discrimination. I imagine it would only bother me if I thought a) these people are unworthy of existing or b) there is a finite amount of something that they want and I need to prove I'm more worthy than them. But with something like justice and freedom from police brutality, I don't get why there's so much, "they should stop complaining!!"

And I can say those comments don't even make me angry, they hurt. Like knot in your throat hurt. Police shooting and beating folks makes me livid. But people who deny it and say "be quiet, it's not so bad," that hurts my heart. It is so very cold.

Given the known, acknowledged history of the U.S. how could they not believe us? Do they actually believe that people owned us and treated us like shit and liked it enough to fight a whole goddamned war about it, and then when that didn't work out say, "welp, guess we better be fair and give them their rights now!" Of course people in authority shit all over people in desadvantaged positions when they think they can get away with it. It's what they've ALWAYS FUCKING DONE!!!

I'm so frustrated with all of this. I still have to prove my case to the masses?? The documentation is everywhere and decades long.....aaaargh!

I don't think it is guilt. I think it is fear.  I think it is the same fear that fuels the 1% against the 99%. It is about power and fear of losing it.  This is why I don't think white people are really as ignorant to white privilege, I think they just would rather pretend it isn't true because if they admit it exists, that means they should do something about it.  Doing something about it would be they would be less powerful.  And in my opinion, everything about the Western world in the 21st century (and most of the 20th as well) is about power and keeping it.  White people want to keep it. Rich people want to keep it. Ironically, lots of the rich people are also white. Ok, not ironic.  

[Deleted]

Aug 23, 2014 6:10:11 GMT -5 summer said:

I agree with this.

Also, can someone explain why people saying that there is racism somewhere makes people so personally offended. People get really defensive. Why?

I'm heterosexual and their are privileges that come with that, but it doesn’t offend me when the LGBT community says they experience discrimination. I imagine it would only bother me if I thought a) these people are unworthy of existing or b) there is a finite amount of something that they want and I need to prove I'm more worthy than them. But with something like justice and freedom from police brutality, I don't get why there's so much, "they should stop complaining!!"

And I can say those comments don't even make me angry, they hurt. Like knot in your throat hurt. Police shooting and beating folks makes me livid. But people who deny it and say "be quiet, it's not so bad," that hurts my heart. It is so very cold.

Given the known, acknowledged history of the U.S. how could they not believe us? Do they actually believe that people owned us and treated us like shit and liked it enough to fight a whole goddamned war about it, and then when that didn't work out say, "welp, guess we better be fair and give them their rights now!" Of course people in authority shit all over people in desadvantaged positions when they think they can get away with it. It's what they've ALWAYS FUCKING DONE!!!

I'm so frustrated with all of this. I still have to prove my case to the masses?? The documentation is everywhere and decades long.....aaaargh!

YES, SO MUCH THIS!! THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH CAPS FOR HOW MUCH I AGREE HERE.

It hurts. It really, truly, deeply hurts when people I know and even love just cut me off at the pass when I talk about race and race relations. They will come talk to me about anything else, give weight to my opinion, mull it over, and even value it highly. But when I mention race, I get everything from the brush off to complete and utter denial.

It makes me feel very small, very insignificant, and dismissed. And I hate it.