Anyone familiar with landlord/tenant law?

[penguingrrl]

Aug 22, 2014 13:51:20 GMT -5 heyjude said:

"I think in the future I'm going to actually record the conversation..."

You might want to check on the legality of that too in your state.

Really? Good to know. I mean, I would only use it for my purposes in getting everything in writing prior to signing the lease, but I guess it could be used in court and therefore needs to be approved.

[penguingrrl]

Aug 22, 2014 13:55:29 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

Aug 22, 2014 13:52:34 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Really? Good to know. I mean, I would only use it for my purposes in getting everything in writing prior to signing the lease, but I guess it could be used in court and therefore needs to be approved.

really. you might need his consent to record, or at the least, let him know you are recording.

*not a lawyer

Okay. Then I'll definitely ask that. Otherwise I guess bring a notebook and paper and write down everything discussed at all. It's always such a whirlwind looking at a rental that I really do lose track of each individual thing.

[heyjude]

You can always send an email afterwards to confirm the details of the convo.

"During our walk through you said xyz, do I have that correct?"

[AAM2012]

Aug 22, 2014 13:55:29 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

Aug 22, 2014 13:52:34 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Really? Good to know. I mean, I would only use it for my purposes in getting everything in writing prior to signing the lease, but I guess it could be used in court and therefore needs to be approved.

really. you might need his consent to record, or at the least, let him know you are recording.

*not a lawyer

This depends in the state. Some you don't even have to disclose nor do they have to give permission.

I would follow up every conversation in writing/email: "per our conversation today you advised me of xyz.."

[penguingrrl]

Aug 22, 2014 14:00:06 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Aug 22, 2014 13:55:29 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

really. you might need his consent to record, or at the least, let him know you are recording.

*not a lawyer

And even then, if it is not written into the lease, it might not be enforceable. You need to talk to a LT expert in your area.

Okay.

Lesson learned not to trust landlords to do the right thing ever. Even in NYC every landlord we had followed through on their promises to us, even the verbal ones. This has been a painful lesson here. 

Thank you so much for all your help and advice. It is appreciated and I'm going to look into what resources we have access to here to sort out what we can (especially with regards to the destroyed furniture) and you've pointed me in a good direction to find resources (I've never had to look before despite 10+ years as a renter).

[lg28]

Aug 22, 2014 14:05:29 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Aug 22, 2014 14:00:06 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

And even then, if it is not written into the lease, it might not be enforceable. You need to talk to a LT expert in your area.

Okay.

Lesson learned not to trust landlords to do the right thing ever. Even in NYC every landlord we had followed through on their promises to us, even the verbal ones. This has been a painful lesson here. 

Thank you so much for all your help and advice. It is appreciated and I'm going to look into what resources we have access to here to sort out what we can (especially with regards to the destroyed furniture) and you've pointed me in a good direction to find resources (I've never had to look before despite 10+ years as a renter).

For what it's worth, most landlord/tenant laws actually heavily favour the tenant. They do in most Canadian provinces.
I've been a renter (university) and I've also been a landlord in both Canada and the US (Florida) for 6 years and landlords get screwed as much as tenants.

It sucks that you're having a bad experience. It can happen to anyone! I have a feeling this guy just might be a bit of a shady person. Good luck getting out of your lease (If that's what you choose to pursue).

[heyjude]

The law may favor the tenant but whether a judge will is another story!

[penguingrrl]

Aug 22, 2014 14:36:27 GMT -5 lg28 said:

Aug 22, 2014 14:05:29 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Okay.

Lesson learned not to trust landlords to do the right thing ever. Even in NYC every landlord we had followed through on their promises to us, even the verbal ones. This has been a painful lesson here. 

Thank you so much for all your help and advice. It is appreciated and I'm going to look into what resources we have access to here to sort out what we can (especially with regards to the destroyed furniture) and you've pointed me in a good direction to find resources (I've never had to look before despite 10+ years as a renter).

For what it's worth, most landlord/tenant laws actually heavily favour the tenant. They do in most Canadian provinces.
I've been a renter (university) and I've also been a landlord in both Canada and the US (Florida) for 6 years and landlords get screwed as much as tenants.

It sucks that you're having a bad experience. It can happen to anyone! I have a feeling this guy just might be a bit of a shady person. Good luck getting out of your lease (If that's what you choose to pursue).

Thanks so much. I know I shouldn't be judging all landlords by one really shady one (especially since I've had five great LLs before this), but it's hard to keep perspective in the midst of this. I hope we can sort things out and make it work for the year, partly because the idea of moving again with three kids so soon has me ready to deal with a lot. But we'll see if we can get things sorted out and hopefully find out that there's a serious issue with the oil tank and that's not normal usage.

[vanillacourage]

I think the bigger lesson is to watch closely for signals. I am not saying you did anything wrong, but a LL suddenly wanting to raise the rent by $100/mo on move-in day is a red flag.

[penguingrrl]

Aug 22, 2014 14:45:35 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

I think the bigger lesson is to watch closely for signals. I am not saying you did anything wrong, but a LL suddenly wanting to raise the rent by $100/mo on move-in day is a red flag.

Unfortunately we did see red flags. But since we were moving from out of state and there were no other suitable places on the market we were between a rock and a hard place . DH had to start his new job and our lease was up on our old place and we couldn't afford to store stuff and stay somewhere short-term while looking for a less sketchy LL.

[LoveTrains]

Aug 22, 2014 13:47:56 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

I'm a landlord. With the exception of the dressers I don't know that anything else is actionable.

When my prospective tenants ask about utilities I ballpark it for them but also say they should call the relevant utility and get actual estimates from them. That is their responsibility.

I do agree with VC on this one. It sucks...but it is what it is.

It does sound off that you have used so much oil though, just in heating your water. I would ask the landlord to have the tank and lines inspected, and I would also investigate what else is being powered by that oil tank (ie, carriage house).

I don't think its illegal to look in the windows at all, but again, check your state laws. Much of what you have written SUCSK, but its not necessarily illegal (depending on your state laws) or would allow you to break the lease.

Is there anything in the lease about what happens to the oil in the tank if/when you move out? because I know you mentioned it was bone dry when you moved in. I would hate for you to leave valuable oil there when you move out.

I hope you find a new (better) rental soon, but I think you might have to suck it up with this one until the lease is over or you can get the landlord to let you out of it.

[LoveTrains]

Aug 22, 2014 14:03:31 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Aug 22, 2014 13:55:29 GMT -5 @majorwife said:

really. you might need his consent to record, or at the least, let him know you are recording.

*not a lawyer

This depends in the state. Some you don't even have to disclose nor do they have to give permission.

I would follow up every conversation in writing/email: "per our conversation today you advised me of xyz.."

Yes but in some states you do. Massachusetts, for example, you cannot record voices. So even taking a video without consent (because it includes voices) can come with penalties and fines under the wiretapping law. 

I do mystery shopping and I get FURIOUS when the assignment includes recording a phone conversation in massachusetts. I never accept those assignments because they are blatantly illegal and can come with prison time. Hell to the no. 

[heyjude]

Aug 22, 2014 16:38:54 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Aug 22, 2014 14:03:31 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

This depends in the state. Some you don't even have to disclose nor do they have to give permission.

I would follow up every conversation in writing/email: "per our conversation today you advised me of xyz.."

THIS SERIOUSLY IS PROBABLY NOT ENOUGH WHEN IT COMES TO AGREEMENTS IN ANTICIPATION OF SIGNING A LEASE!

I don't think anyone is saying that. I'm not anyway. It's just an alternative to potentially illegally recording someone if you feel you have a need to document a conversation.

[calmcosmo]

I am both a landlord and a tenant (we own two homes on the east coast and rent a home currently on the west coast) so this thread is interesting.

I think people have done a good job giving you guidance. The only thing I wanted to add was that we rented a home between 2011 and 2013 that had oil heat and it was insanely expensive. In our case it was a big old Georgian home (1953) with original windows and no attic insulation. The oil furnace itself was new, but over the course of the two years we were in that home we averaged $3,000/year for the oil. The home and water was oil heated. We paid on a plan with the oil company - $250/month all year long. So in summer when our electric bill was high due to A/C usage, and we were only using the oil to heat our water, we were still shelling out $250 for the "budget" plan.

We learned our lesson through that experience that the bones of a rental (windows, doors, insulation) as well as the type of heat it has is extremely important. In our case, it was like you - slim pickings in the perfect neighborhood. The house was gorgeous and I fell in love and we glossed over the oil heat detail. Never again. Long gone are the days where oil was economical.

All this to say that there might be nothing at all wrong. For your wallet I hope I'm wrong, but you are certainly not the first person I have seen have oil heat sticker shock.

[whattheheck]

I think PA has pretty strict laws about recording someone without their knowledge. My Ex-H lives in PA and I wanted to record some of our conversations and my lawyer checked into and said not to.

I'm going to go against the grain and say 150 gallons in two months doesn't sound that off. I'm on the NY side of the NY-PA border (not sure where in Eastern PA you are). I have a 250 gallon tank and a fill up usually lasts me the entire summer - 3-4 months. With some cold weather this summer, the heat has kicked on a few times at night. So it's not just hot water this summer.

Also - if you go away during the spring/summer/early fall you should consider turning the oil burner off while you are gone. There is no reason to be generating hot water if no one is home. Obviously don't do this if there is a chance your pipes (water pipes or heating pipes) may freeze.

[njw]

I've had issues with a landlord in PA, but not really a similar issue. My best advice is this...document everything. It sounds like a lot of what you are upset about are just verbal promises he's broken and that's not really grounds for breaking a lease. Ask him to get the oil tank looked at. If he doesn't in a reasonable time, get it done yourself and keep all paperwork regarding cost. Ride out your lease until June, and then leave.

I'm willing to bet that he's going to try to screw you out of your security deposit so you're probably going to end up in civil court anyway. You can ask for reimbursement of your dressers, oil tank repair costs and any other costs you incur that he should have paid for at that time.

We had to fight over a security deposit because our landlord made all these bogus claimed and wanted to deny us our entire $1500 security deposit. He lost and we got all $1500 back and court costs. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING! Continue to communicate via emails.

[penguingrrl]

Okay, we finally reached our LL and he's going to work with us to figure out if there's a problem with the tank and system versus it just being an inefficient old system. If there isn't something wrong with it he said he'll put in an electric water heater, so we'll see if he follows through on any of it since he's full or promises that he never follows through on.

I will send the letter about the dressers via certified mail so we have proof he got it.

[foundmylazybum]

Aug 22, 2014 15:37:49 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Aug 22, 2014 13:47:56 GMT -5 vanillacourage said:

I'm a landlord. With the exception of the dressers I don't know that anything else is actionable.

When my prospective tenants ask about utilities I ballpark it for them but also say they should call the relevant utility and get actual estimates from them. That is their responsibility.

I do agree with VC on this one. It sucks...but it is what it is.

It does sound off that you have used so much oil though, just in heating your water. I would ask the landlord to have the tank and lines inspected, and I would also investigate what else is being powered by that oil tank (ie, carriage house).

I don't think its illegal to look in the windows at all, but again, check your state laws. Much of what you have written SUCSK, but its not necessarily illegal (depending on your state laws) or would allow you to break the lease.

Is there anything in the lease about what happens to the oil in the tank if/when you move out? because I know you mentioned it was bone dry when you moved in. I would hate for you to leave valuable oil there when you move out.

I hope you find a new (better) rental soon, but I think you might have to suck it up with this one until the lease is over or you can get the landlord to let you out of it.

I would also ask about this.  We are landlords. We use a property management company though. If you are having so many problems I almost would suggest finding homes that are managed professionally next time.  The thing with the price raise, the lost property would be handled much better I think with a PM CO. At least you would feel like you had been heard.


The oil thing, also I would ask for the lines to be checked.  As an anecdote, at our rental house a sprinkler line broke and leaked quietly for WEEKS on end. We had a $600+ water bill.  It sucked but WE were responsible for the bill :/.

It might really, REALLY be worth your time to get that looked at. You could  try to get your LL to do it--but do you think he will lol?

[jillboston]

If I were advising a landlord I'd tell him/her not to make any statements about utilities. Usage varies widely depending on the inhabitants, rates rise dramatically (especially heating oil in the NE - which in this case also heated the water heater) in some cases, way too many variables IMHO

[penguingrrl]

Aug 24, 2014 8:30:41 GMT -5 foundmylazybum said:

Aug 22, 2014 15:37:49 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

I do agree with VC on this one. It sucks...but it is what it is.

It does sound off that you have used so much oil though, just in heating your water. I would ask the landlord to have the tank and lines inspected, and I would also investigate what else is being powered by that oil tank (ie, carriage house).

I don't think its illegal to look in the windows at all, but again, check your state laws. Much of what you have written SUCSK, but its not necessarily illegal (depending on your state laws) or would allow you to break the lease.

Is there anything in the lease about what happens to the oil in the tank if/when you move out? because I know you mentioned it was bone dry when you moved in. I would hate for you to leave valuable oil there when you move out.

I hope you find a new (better) rental soon, but I think you might have to suck it up with this one until the lease is over or you can get the landlord to let you out of it.

I would also ask about this.  We are landlords. We use a property management company though. If you are having so many problems I almost would suggest finding homes that are managed professionally next time.  The thing with the price raise, the lost property would be handled much better I think with a PM CO. At least you would feel like you had been heard.


The oil thing, also I would ask for the lines to be checked.  As an anecdote, at our rental house a sprinkler line broke and leaked quietly for WEEKS on end. We had a $600+ water bill.  It sucked but WE were responsible for the bill :/.

It might really, REALLY be worth your time to get that looked at. You could  try to get your LL to do it--but do you think he will lol?

The reason we didn't is all the ones we inquired about required too much up front and we didn't have the capital. Now that DH is earning a better income that will be different next time we move, but when we spoke to realtors they said that we would need to pay the first rent, 1.5 month security and 1 month realtor fee at once and we didn't have the extra money to do it .

[penguingrrl]

Aug 24, 2014 8:42:41 GMT -5 jillboston said:

If I were advising a landlord I'd tell him/her not to make any statements about utilities. Usage varies widely depending on the inhabitants, rates rise dramatically (especially heating oil in the NE - which in this case also heated the water heater) in some cases, way too many variables IMHO

Yes. That's the other thing. We have no idea how high the former tenant kept their heat. We keep ours at 65, although since we're on oil now we'll likely lower it to 60-62 and 55 overnight.