I was thinking-education related

[cjeanette]

There aren't reading groups at our school as much as extra help for those who are ahead and behind. So the other kids don't know if your special attention is enrichment or getting you up to speed.

1st grade is still where the real reading starts but my kids could do some damage to a Dr Seuss book in K.

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[Redpoppy]

DS was a young kindergartener (turned 5 three weeks before cut off) and ended up being invited to attend "K to 1 Summer Transition Program". Call it what it is….summer school. Even given that, he knew all the kindergarten sight words and finally could get through easy books at the end of the year. He never had homework.

I don't think they know who is is the more advanced versus remedial yet. Hopefully that continues in first. They have testing in 3rd so that is the big year.

[jinkies]

My son will be starting 1st grade in September. I'm honestly a little uncomfortable with the pressure for him to meet certain standards already.

They were expected to read, and be able to write 3 related sentences (kid writing) by the end of kindergarten.

He ended up meeting the standards, but barely. The majority of his class seemed to be way ahead of the minimum requirements. I worry that they will pigeon hole him in a reading or math group early on and he won't be able to move out of it, or he will feel less-than because he doesn't already know this stuff.

I was in gifted programs as a kid, and school came easily to me, BUT I was at least a year older than my son will be when he is learning the same things. It's funny to think that 30 years ago my son would have been considered "gifted" to be able to read and write paragraphs in kindergarten, but today he's average at best. 

[macmars45]

Sadly I think teachers have to teach to the test... and have had to since the late 90s at least. It sucks and isn't serving the kids. The people that make the regulations for schools (IMO) have no idea what they're doing/what is age & grade appropriate. FWIW, it's age appropriate to learn to read in first grade. K is the new 1st grade. I'm waiting for preschool to be federally mandated. IMO it's when not if. It sucks.

**I work in education and come from a long line of teachers/educators.

[joenali]

4 words: common core state standards.

[joenali]

"Demoting" to a different reading group? If her son's needs change, so should his small groups.

[spankswife]

I think it has to do with the US vs the rest of the world. For one of the largest, most powerful developed nation, we are lacking compared to others.

The weird part is, even with the increased "push" over time we have stayed about the same, and even worse in some areas.

www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/12/03/248329823/u-s-high-school-students-slide-in-math-reading-science

m.huffpost.com/us/entry/793185

[careyalis]

I'm a teacher popping in from April. I saw this on the app, and the "demoting to another reading group" line really fired me up. I can guarantee (unless she is a horrible person) that his teacher isn't saying "you are stupid-go to the group of kids that can't read!" Differentiated instruction is not a bad thing! Wouldn't you want your kids to be taught on the level where they are able to learn? At any given time, all of the students in my class might be working on different skills. It isn't advertised which ones are low, medium, and high, and they are so used to differentiated work that they don't care what their peers are working on.

[irishbride2]

Differentiation is not demoting lol.

[Deleted]

My kids were not expected to read in kindergarten. Grade 1 is where they expect to learn to read. My youngest is quite behind her grade level for reading, she is on a support plan, and she thinks her small reading group is awesome, not humiliating.

Both my kids have Decemner birthdays and are some of the youngest in their grades (thanks to red shirting, by more than a year). I feel no competitiveness at all. Canada though.

[Marmee]

I honestly hate it. My kids are not natural early readers. They are good at plenty of things but getting reading isn't one of them...yet it's the main thing that's valued. That makes life for both myself & my kids stressful in K & 1st. There is some academic bullying that goes on as well because kids aren't stupid. I want to move to Norway were they teach reading at 7.

[Marmee]

Aug 23, 2014 6:24:58 GMT -5 careyalis said:

I'm a teacher popping in from April. I saw this on the app, and the "demoting to another reading group" line really fired me up. I can guarantee (unless she is a horrible person) that his teacher isn't saying "you are stupid-go to the group of kids that can't read!" Differentiated instruction is not a bad thing! Wouldn't you want your kids to be taught on the level where they are able to learn? At any given time, all of the students in my class might be working on different skills. It isn't advertised which ones are low, medium, and high, and they are so used to differentiated work that they don't care what their peers are working on.

I don't know what grade you teach...but my daughters are not stupid nor are their classmates. The observe & know exactly who is doing more advanced work, certainly by 1st grade.

[joenali]

Aug 23, 2014 9:31:08 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Aug 23, 2014 6:24:58 GMT -5 careyalis said:

I'm a teacher popping in from April. I saw this on the app, and the "demoting to another reading group" line really fired me up. I can guarantee (unless she is a horrible person) that his teacher isn't saying "you are stupid-go to the group of kids that can't read!" Differentiated instruction is not a bad thing! Wouldn't you want your kids to be taught on the level where they are able to learn? At any given time, all of the students in my class might be working on different skills. It isn't advertised which ones are low, medium, and high, and they are so used to differentiated work that they don't care what their peers are working on.

I don't know what grade you teach...but my daughters are not stupid nor are their classmates. The observe & know exactly who is doing more advanced work, certainly by 1st grade.

So should your daughters be doing work that is too advanced or too easy for them, just because they "know"? It's up to the teacher to talk with their student's about how everyone is different, everyone learns differently and might need different things at different times. Just because one student might need more challenging math work, they might need reading support. Kids's really don't know all of the ins and outs of what a teacher is doing behind the scenes.

[Marmee]

Aug 23, 2014 9:35:19 GMT -5 joenali said:

Aug 23, 2014 9:31:08 GMT -5 Marmee said:

I don't know what grade you teach...but my daughters are not stupid nor are their classmates. The observe & know exactly who is doing more advanced work, certainly by 1st grade.

So should your daughters be doing work that is too advanced or too easy for them, just because they "know"? It's up to the teacher to talk with their student's about how everyone is different, everyone learns differently and might need different things at different times. Just because one student might need more challenging math work, they might need reading support. Kids's really don't know all of the ins and outs of what a teacher is doing behind the scenes.

They should be doing grade level work...if they were in public school & it was far too easy, then I'd want them tested for & put in gifted classes (or go to a gifted school). If it was far too hard, then I'd want special ed/resource or whatever. Otherwise I think the material should be basically on par in individual classrooms. It don't think it's horrible for my kid to have "easy" spelling words or for my kid to miss several tough words.

[katlizabeth]

Aug 23, 2014 6:09:16 GMT -5 spankswife said:

I think it has to do with the US vs the rest of the world. For one of the largest, most powerful developed nation, we are lacking compared to others.

The weird part is, even with the increased "push" over time we have stayed about the same, and even worse in some areas.

www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/12/03/248329823/u-s-high-school-students-slide-in-math-reading-science

m.huffpost.com/us/entry/793185

These studies don't share that the US is required to test all students, including students with mild, moderate, or severe disabilities.  Many other countries do not test all students, or, as was stated in one of these articles, only report test scores from certain areas (China's major cities).  We're not necessarily comparing the same populations.

[joenali]

Aug 23, 2014 9:47:05 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Aug 23, 2014 9:35:19 GMT -5 joenali said:

So should your daughters be doing work that is too advanced or too easy for them, just because they "know"? It's up to the teacher to talk with their student's about how everyone is different, everyone learns differently and might need different things at different times. Just because one student might need more challenging math work, they might need reading support. Kids's really don't know all of the ins and outs of what a teacher is doing behind the scenes.

They should be doing grade level work...if they were in public school & it was far too easy, then I'd want them tested for & put in gifted classes (or go to a gifted school). If it was far too hard, then I'd want special ed/resource or whatever. Otherwise I think the material should be basically on par in individual classrooms. It don't think it's horrible for my kid to have "easy" spelling words or for my kid to miss several tough words.

But not all students in one class can do grade level work. It doesn't work that way.

[katlizabeth]

Aug 23, 2014 9:47:05 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Aug 23, 2014 9:35:19 GMT -5 joenali said:

So should your daughters be doing work that is too advanced or too easy for them, just because they "know"? It's up to the teacher to talk with their student's about how everyone is different, everyone learns differently and might need different things at different times. Just because one student might need more challenging math work, they might need reading support. Kids's really don't know all of the ins and outs of what a teacher is doing behind the scenes.

They should be doing grade level work...if they were in public school & it was far too easy, then I'd want them tested for & put in gifted classes (or go to a gifted school). If it was far too hard, then I'd want special ed/resource or whatever. Otherwise I think the material should be basically on par in individual classrooms. It don't think it's horrible for my kid to have "easy" spelling words or for my kid to miss several tough words.

Most parents do not feel this way.  Most educators feel students learn best when material is within the child's "zone of proximal development," challenging, but attainable.  Just because a student leans things quickly or easily, does not mean they're in the 99th percentile (or whatever the district requires for gifted and talented).  Also, many districts do not have gifted classes.  On the same line of thinking, just because a student takes longer to catch on to concepts, and might be in the 10th percentile, does not mean they qualify for special education services.  Teachers differentiate as much as possible because it's the best way to teach given the way our educational system is set up.  I'm not saying it's the best way possible, but it's the best way to achieve the most leaning using our current educational model.  

[irishbride2]

Omg. Every kid has different talents and different areas they need to work on. It's not a big deal To acknowledge that . Even my 8th grade students seem to get that.
It is not a demotion unless you tell your kids it is.

[joenali]

I have never heard a parent say they don't want anything differentiated. Weird. In a way, it might be good, they stay off my case. But it would not be good for the child. Lol!

[mlvmd]

I am not young and we not only differentiated the levels of math and reading but the kids were divided into separate classrooms even if they had the same base classroom for the other subjects. The classes were labeled advanced, regular, etc. I don't remember a lot of concern from the kids; everyone already knew who was more advanced.

[macmars45]

Aug 23, 2014 10:35:50 GMT -5 mlvmd said:

I am not young and we not only differentiated the levels of math and reading but the kids were divided into separate classrooms even if they had the same base classroom for the other subjects. The classes were labeled advanced, regular, etc. I don't remember a lot of concern from the kids; everyone already knew who was more advanced.

*nods in agreement* My twin sister was always in the advanced base classrooms and I was in the regular. Everyone knew but no one (to my knowledge) made a big stink about it to anyone including my twin sis to me. This was from 6th grade and up.

[Marmee]

Ha! Well I've have 4 kids & 1 that's got an LD (dyslexia) & 1 that gets everything with no/little effort. Maybe that's my bias. DD1 is no less intelligent (maybe more so) than DD2 but she did not get reading easily. I don't think they should leave 1st grade having a different experience/exposure. It's funny, I have had these same discussions with their teachers...and they have done what I asked. DD1 got private specialized tutoring to overcome her dyslexic disadvantage...and now does very well ...so well the "smart" kids (early readers) now make comments to her how they are mad at her because she got a better grade, etc. Maybe many (most) kids don't get the differention in teaching materials, but my kids absolutely knew, even in Kindy.

[Marmee]

Aug 23, 2014 10:35:50 GMT -5 mlvmd said:

I am not young and we not only differentiated the levels of math and reading but the kids were divided into separate classrooms even if they had the same base classroom for the other subjects. The classes were labeled advanced, regular, etc. I don't remember a lot of concern from the kids; everyone already knew who was more advanced.

In Kindy & 1st grade? I think gifted/resource/special ed classes are all appropriate once there is true intelligence or achievement testing. (ps- I'm also dyslexic)

[stealthmom]

Aug 23, 2014 11:20:12 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Ha! Well I've have 4 kids & 1 that's got an LD (dyslexia) & 1 that gets everything with no/little effort. Maybe that's my bias. DD1 is no less intelligent (maybe more so) than DD2 but she did not get reading easily. I don't think they should leave 1st grade having a different experience/exposure. It's funny, I have had these same discussions with their teachers...and they have done what I asked. DD1 got private specialized tutoring to overcome her dyslexic disadvantage...and now does very well ...so well the "smart" kids (early readers) now make comments to her how they are mad at her because she got a better grade, etc. Maybe many (most) kids don't get the differention in teaching materials, but my kids absolutely knew, even in Kindy.

I still don't get what's bad about "knowing." Because teachers work with such diverse learners their teaching is custom made for their abilities. Is this a bad thing for kids to know about?

I was in high level reading and reg. Math for almost my entire el. I wasn't *thrilled to be in lower math but I knew it was appropriate. Particularly after I got moved to advanced in 4th grade and struggled mightily.

[careyalis]

Aug 23, 2014 9:35:19 GMT -5 joenali said:

Aug 23, 2014 9:31:08 GMT -5 Marmee said:

I don't know what grade you teach...but my daughters are not stupid nor are their classmates. The observe & know exactly who is doing more advanced work, certainly by 1st grade.

So should your daughters be doing work that is too advanced or too easy for them, just because they "know"? It's up to the teacher to talk with their student's about how everyone is different, everyone learns differently and might need different things at different times. Just because one student might need more challenging math work, they might need reading support. Kids's really don't know all of the ins and outs of what a teacher is doing behind the scenes.

This. Exactly this. I teach 2nd grade, have taught kindergarten, and am a literacy specialist. It is ridiculous to think that every child in the same classroom should have the exact same work or that any child with a learning difference should be in a special ed./gifted classroom. I teach my kids that everyone has strengths and weaknesses and that is okay. A child is not defined by their reading level. If your daughter is upset because someone else is reading at a higher level than her, remind her of her special talents and how another child might struggle with whatever that is. My goal, as an educator, is for every child to leave my class smarter than at the beginning of the year. This would be impossible without catering to the varied needs of my students. Fair isn't always equal.

[stealthmom]

Aug 23, 2014 9:47:05 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Aug 23, 2014 9:35:19 GMT -5 joenali said:

So should your daughters be doing work that is too advanced or too easy for them, just because they "know"? It's up to the teacher to talk with their student's about how everyone is different, everyone learns differently and might need different things at different times. Just because one student might need more challenging math work, they might need reading support. Kids's really don't know all of the ins and outs of what a teacher is doing behind the scenes.

They should be doing grade level work...if they were in public school & it was far too easy, then I'd want them tested for & put in gifted classes (or go to a gifted school). If it was far too hard, then I'd want special ed/resource or whatever. Otherwise I think the material should be basically on par in individual classrooms. It don't think it's horrible for my kid to have "easy" spelling words or for my kid to miss several tough words.

I just caught this. Not only is this not the way it works, it would also be illegal re: LRE.

sorry different learners! Even though your education only needs a little tweaking, you are heretoforth banished to the sped room. Sucks to be you!

Here's the thing. Studies have shown that kids do better when they are in diverse classrooms. Each group benefits from the other. There is no one way of doing things any more. Even kids who are the same level of intelligence learn differently and have strengths and weaknesses.

[Marmee]

Aug 23, 2014 14:02:09 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

Aug 23, 2014 9:47:05 GMT -5 Marmee said:

They should be doing grade level work...if they were in public school & it was far too easy, then I'd want them tested for & put in gifted classes (or go to a gifted school). If it was far too hard, then I'd want special ed/resource or whatever. Otherwise I think the material should be basically on par in individual classrooms. It don't think it's horrible for my kid to have "easy" spelling words or for my kid to miss several tough words.

I just caught this. Not only is this not the way it works, it would also be illegal re: LRE.

sorry different learners! Even though your education only needs a little tweaking, you are heretoforth banished to the sped room. Sucks to be you!

Here's the thing. Studies have shown that kids do better when they are in diverse classrooms. Each group benefits from the other. There is no one way of doing things any more. Even kids who are the same level of intelligence learn differently and have strengths and weaknesses.

You are agreeing with me...lol. I said "Far too hard" not a little tweaking. My point is, stop pigeonholing kids at 5-6yrs old. It's the Freakanomics effect...aka advantage/disadvantaging in a small way as a little kid just gets more pronounced as they get older.

Furthermore, I'm pretty offended to even be accused of what you said. Like I stated above, both my DD & I have learning disabilities....it's asinine to even say that to me. And my Mom has been a special Ed teacher for 45yrs, I know the pitfalls & advantages of it.

[sporky]

Except no one is pigeonholing. Students are constantly reassessed on their abilities, and changes in instruction are made accordingly.

[kimibrighteyes]

Aug 23, 2014 8:54:39 GMT -5 @gingerbb said:

My kids were not expected to read in kindergarten. Grade 1 is where they expect to learn to read. My youngest is quite behind her grade level for reading, she is on a support plan, and she thinks her small reading group is awesome, not humiliating.

Both my kids have Decemner birthdays and are some of the youngest in their grades (thanks to red shirting, by more than a year). I feel no competitiveness at all. Canada though.

My experience has been the same.  Also a Canadian

[stealthmom]

Aug 23, 2014 14:06:10 GMT -5 Marmee said:

Aug 23, 2014 14:02:09 GMT -5 stealthmom said:

I just caught this. Not only is this not the way it works, it would also be illegal re: LRE.

sorry different learners! Even though your education only needs a little tweaking, you are heretoforth banished to the sped room. Sucks to be you!

Here's the thing. Studies have shown that kids do better when they are in diverse classrooms. Each group benefits from the other. There is no one way of doing things any more. Even kids who are the same level of intelligence learn differently and have strengths and weaknesses.

You are agreeing with me...lol. I said "Far too hard" not a little tweaking. My point is, stop pigeonholing kids at 5-6yrs old. It's the Freakanomics effect...aka advantage/disadvantaging in a small way as a little kid just gets more pronounced as they get older.

if you think all kids should be taught the same exact thing in the same exact way then you are the one who wants to pigeon hole. If you further think that kids who can't keep up or are bored should be in a different place altogether that is even worse. And I'll repeat would be ILLEGAL. what you are proposing would put education back 50 years.