My 6 1/2 year old threatened to kill me

[cinco]

Hugs. My kids can be total shits at the beginning of the school year. DS (6) gets cranky/tired and DD (8) gets extremely overwhelmed with change. Today I had several of those moments where I just want to shake them. I put DS to bed at 7:30, so hopefully that will help him, and DD should be better after a couple weeks. She's in 3rd and we've gone through this every year. As frustrating as it is at home, it is great that he is behaving well at school and for teachers.

[oliviapope]

This sounds really challenging. Since you mention it has been hard the last few months, I would likely put in a call to the pedi. Also, change can be tough-and this might be more of a "something going on at school" as well. Either way, what he said and how he deals with anger need to be addressed.

I know this is scary, but I also can't imagine what he is feeling right now. I would give him time to cool down, and then give him a huge hug and see if he wants to talk about what is really going on with him. Full disclosure:my 6yr old has sensory issues and does have angry outbursts (not using violent language though), and this is what works for us. Do whatever works for your family.

[mainelyfoolish]

My six year old has been just awful lately, too. Terrible sixes? IDK.

[oliviapope]

Aug 26, 2014 20:25:37 GMT -5 @amydm said:

Aug 26, 2014 19:57:16 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

This sounds really challenging. Since you mention it has been hard the last few months, I would likely put in a call to the pedi. Also, change can be tough-and this might be more of a "something going on at school" as well. Either way, what he said and how he deals with anger need to be addressed.

I know this is scary, but I also can't imagine what he is feeling right now. I would give him time to cool down, and then give him a huge hug and see if he wants to talk about what is really going on with him. Full disclosure:my 6yr old has sensory issues and does have angry outbursts (not using violent language though), and this is what works for us. Do whatever works for your family.

This is the first time he has ever said anything violent, but he did say he hated me this weekend. 
We have had the same Pedi since DS was born, and we were in a month ago to get a tick off of DD and she told me that I had such gentle children.  She will think I am crazy.
I actually have a masters in counseling psychology and was a school counselor before kids, but only worked with teenagers.  I am going to email his school counselor to see what tips she can give me about anger.   

Don't feel embarrassed to call the pedi. The same thing happened to me. Basically my kids are angels in the pedis office. It took me dissolving into tears for my pedi to understand. I am sure he meant well but definitely probably felt I was talking about normal tantrums-they were definitely not normal. I am also a pediatric nurse and worked psych for years and knew my kid was the "which of these do not belong". We have made great progress with OT, and working on seeing what was really making him upset. Also, I took a two week class called "redirecting children's behavior" which gave me some great tools on how to approach him, and how to handle things so it didn't blow up. Best of luck-it is hard!

[wanderlustmom]

Aug 26, 2014 20:25:37 GMT -5 @amydm said:

Aug 26, 2014 19:57:16 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

This sounds really challenging. Since you mention it has been hard the last few months, I would likely put in a call to the pedi. Also, change can be tough-and this might be more of a "something going on at school" as well. Either way, what he said and how he deals with anger need to be addressed.

I know this is scary, but I also can't imagine what he is feeling right now. I would give him time to cool down, and then give him a huge hug and see if he wants to talk about what is really going on with him. Full disclosure:my 6yr old has sensory issues and does have angry outbursts (not using violent language though), and this is what works for us. Do whatever works for your family.

This is the first time he has ever said anything violent, but he did say he hated me this weekend. 
We have had the same Pedi since DS was born, and we were in a month ago to get a tick off of DD and she told me that I had such gentle children.  She will think I am crazy.
I actually have a masters in counseling psychology and was a school counselor before kids, but only worked with teenagers.  I am going to email his school counselor to see what tips she can give me about anger.   

Big hugs, and to validate, I am an LCSW in private practice doing play therapy and my kids have issues. Older one has anxiety and younger one can be defiant. So I am at a loss with my kids too. I agree that play therapy would be helpful, having kids learn to frame their feelings is important even if the problem is minor. I hope it gets easier too. And my kids are hot messes the first two weeks of school no matter what. 

[cobber06]

I don't have any personal experience, but at my work the therapists recommend Love & Logic and The Nurtured Heart Approach all the time, with the preference being for Nurtured Heart: www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Workbook-Interactive/dp/0967050758/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1409103419&sr=8-2&keywords=transforming+the+difficult+child

[pugz]

I don't have a lot of experience with that age group but could recommend some local oranizations that offer play therapy if that's something you guys want to pursue.

you might also ask for an eval by the school

[oliviapope]

Aug 26, 2014 20:48:00 GMT -5 @amydm said:

A few more things:
DH was gone for 2 weeks earlier in August and I feel like that escalated things. And DH was gone tonight during this outburst. I don't know if he is feeling abandoned by him, or what. DS also said didn't like his teacher and hated 1st grade, but I think it is getting better.
DS did stay up until 9 last night, my mom took him swimming. I never wake him in the morning, he naturally gets up around 7. I try to put him to bed by 8, some nights he is asleep by 7:30. He napped until kindergarten at 5 1/2 and napped on the weekends until this summer.
This summer, I felt like I just could not keep him busy enough or give him the stimulation he needed, just being home with me. He is very bright. So he was just hyper and not listening for the most part. He needs the structure of school.
These big outburts are mainly related to extracurricular activities! He tried violin (per his request) this summer and hated it, and threw fits about it. He asked to try soccer and then didn't want to play this weekend (a lot of the other kids have played for 3 years and he just started) and we are starting piano up this week after a break and he is hating that. DH and I are seeing a therapist because we are having issues deciding on family size, and she said that I should not give into his fits and let him stop. I told him 1 more year of piano so I should go through with that. She said instead to make it fun, get ice cream, etc. So that is why I was going to let him have a show after he practiced, although I typically don't. I kind of feel like all of the fits are tied to things that are hard for him, or he doesn't really know what he is doing.

This is so similar to my son. If he can't do something right the first time he used to get so upset. Try talking to him and find out what the issues are. For example. My son also wanted to play soccer very badly. We signed him up and a couple weeks into it he hated it. Turns out it was because he couldn't run as fast as the others, and his coordination was off (due to undiagnosed sensory issues). We worked on some drills and practiced together, etc and he felt more confident. I not saying your son has the same issues, just try to find out what is upsetting him.
Karate has been awesome for is because it is individual, but a team feel.

Also, does he not like piano or is it too hard?if he really doesn't like it, a year will be a VERY long time for both of you. Maybe offer him the ability to choose something else? Or maybe all of it together is too much?

It sounds like there may be more to it, so check out the school eval system as well.

[mudslide]

Aug 26, 2014 20:22:08 GMT -5 @amydm said:

Aug 26, 2014 19:05:01 GMT -5 @astrid said:

How much protein does he eat?

Is protein linked to behavior? Does more protein help behavior?
His food yesterday-
Breakfast- 2 homemade waffles with real butter and real maple syrup
Snack- salt and pepper pistachios
Lunch (bought at school) - french toast sticks with fake syrup, sausage, hashbrowns, OJ, fruit
Dinner- chicken tostada (corn tortilla with homemade refried beans, chicken and pepper jack cheese), tortilla chips and cheesy bacon dip leftover from a party, and raspberries. He had some Naked juice to drink

Today-

Breakfast-one plain homemade waffle
Snack- Annie's cheddar bunnies
Lunch- I made pepperoni and cheddar cheese kabobs, raspberries, organic juice box
Dinner- TJ's turkey corndog (DH was gone so I don't cook if its just me and the kids), Naked juice, string cheese, pretzel crackers, dried cranberries
Snack-oatmeal
My general rule is I try to avoid dyes and make as much from scratch as possible. He usually eats greek yogurt or waffles for breakfast. He has become more picky the last 3-4 months.

I would try to get more protein in him to see if that helps.

[h]

That is so hard. My level of concern and what I did next would depend on how the threat was made--how violent and angry he seemed, how long it took him to calm down and apologize, etc. IME, kids that age often have a tough time controlling their anger and sometimes say pretty awful things that they clearly don't mean in the heat of the moment. My just turned 7 yo is a really sweet kid 95% of the time, and I have no reason to suspect he has any sensory issues or anything of that nature (although he is and has always been an intense, demanding, and somewhat high-strung kid) and he has said "I hate you" to members of our family a couple times and once said "I'm going to kill you" to his younger brother. Every single friend I have with a son this age has had at least a couple similar experiences. But, obviously, you know your kid best, so if he seems atypically angry or violent, this sort of behavior happens a lot, he has difficulty calming down, etc., I would absolutely talk to the pedi. Definitely don't be embarrassed about it!

Hunger/lack of protein is definitely the thing most likely to set my 7 yo off. Also, not having a chance to decompress. He is SO much more pleasant to be around if he gets half an hour to goof off or do something mindless after school (shoot baskets, watch TV, ride his bike, play a video game, whatever) before starting in on homework or other structured activities. I know you are trying to avoid screen time, and I am sure I will get raised eyebrows for even suggesting it, but sometimes a little TV really does seem to help my intense, perfectionist, super hard on himself kid take things down a notch. Getting plenty of physical activity seems to make a difference, too. I am kind of astounded at the amount of energy my boys seem to need to burn off before they are capable of acting like half-way civilized human beings.

[darnkatz]

Six year molars = hell. Is he getting them? My kiddo is and she is god awful right now.

[elocrates]

That does sound like a rough afternoon. You obviously know your child best. I always feel like parent gut feeling is the most important when deciding whether evaluation is needed. You should never feel embarrased about seeking more evaluation.

FWIW, my kids like to "try things out" that they hear other kids stay at school. They say things they otherwise wouldn't say to see what my reaction will be. Kind-of like they know it is wrong but they just want to confirm so they run it by me to make sure it is actually wrong. (Gee, thanks kids.) It is almost always rude/ hurtful things.

Also, when DS1 (6.5yo) is tired or when DS2 (4yo) is hungry, they tend to throw fits and get really irrational in general. Yesterday evening DS1 was way overtired after a busy day and was standing in the bathroom (supposed to be brushing his teeth), whining/ crying, "I'm supposed to be brushing my teeth and not fussing but I just can't stop fussing but then I can't brush my teeth and then I'm still fusssinnnnggg." Haha. I much prefer this to the nasty/ rude behavior that we usually see when he is overtired.

[darnkatz]

Aug 26, 2014 21:39:51 GMT -5 @amydm said:

Aug 26, 2014 21:38:37 GMT -5 darnkatz said:

Six year molars = hell. Is he getting them? My kiddo is and she is god awful right now.

I am not sure what they are? I know he got some sealants on some molars this summer... He has lost 6 teeth and has 2-3 in the front that still need to come through.

They start popping out in the very back. Five was no picnic, but as soon as those suckers started cutting through her gums, she lost her mind. They are taking forever, too.

If you follow this link, it has a chart.
By the time the child enters the first grade, the six year molars have usually erupted. This is a permanent tooth and is commonly mistaken for another primary tooth since no tooth is lost before it appears. This tooth is one of the most important in a child's mouth because it helps the other permanent teeth come into their proper place.

[oliviapope]

Aug 26, 2014 21:12:16 GMT -5 @amydm said:

Aug 26, 2014 20:57:56 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

This is so similar to my son. If he can't do something right the first time he used to get so upset. Try talking to him and find out what the issues are. For example. My son also wanted to play soccer very badly. We signed him up and a couple weeks into it he hated it. Turns out it was because he couldn't run as fast as the others, and his coordination was off (due to undiagnosed sensory issues). We worked on some drills and practiced together, etc and he felt more confident. I not saying your son has the same issues, just try to find out what is upsetting him.
Karate has been awesome for is because it is individual, but a team feel.

Also, does he not like piano or is it too hard?if he really doesn't like it, a year will be a VERY long time for both of you. Maybe offer him the ability to choose something else? Or maybe all of it together is too much?

It sounds like there may be more to it, so check out the school eval system as well.

I just wrote an email to his counselor (who I have never had contact with before).  At what age was your son diagnosed with sensory issues?  I feel like everyone I know had a diagnosis by 4, and it has never been on my radar for him before.  Piano was not hard for him, he does pretty well at it. But he hasn't played since basically April because of violin, so he has forgotten a lot.  And he doesn't give me trouble if he practices before school, but does after school. He is probably tired.  I won't make him play a whole year, but I am going to make him at least do September to get back into it and because I don't want him to think he "won". 

My son was 5.5 when he finally got diagnosed. Even his teacher said "I don't see an issue, but if you feel you need an eval..." I literally started feeling crazy myself!
His OT and developmental pedi both say that a lot of times kids can keep it together really well at school. However, when they come home they just lose some of those coping mechanisms that they use during the day.

For us it was the excessive "breakdowns". We could handle the clothing (super picky), and other stuff-but the social and behavioral I didn't know what to do. We have learned a ton at OT, and she noticed reasons why he may be frustrated that I didn't notice before. I have learned a lot of tools to help him as well. We have seen such a huge improvement in his sleep/eating/attitude that I am glad I pushed. The counselor should have some good ideas for you as well!

Your son may just be going through a transition with a new grade and a new routine. He may just need some down time during the afternoons (maybe for can work on building a lego set or something) or schedule outside time just like an activity. School nights are so stressful-there is never enough time I feel like! Feel free to ask about anything we have done. I feel that as much as my son has changed in a year, so have I as a parent.

[sent]

Aug 26, 2014 21:39:51 GMT -5 @amydm said:

Aug 26, 2014 21:38:37 GMT -5 darnkatz said:

Six year molars = hell. Is he getting them? My kiddo is and she is god awful right now.

I am not sure what they are? I know he got some sealants on some molars this summer... He has lost 6 teeth and has 2-3 in the front that still need to come through.

It would be the very last tooth in each corner of the mouth.  He should have 4, one in each corner.  

[barefootcontessa]

I have six year old who can be emotional like that. He has been to play therapy and been diagnosed with anxiety. Now that I know this I can identify situations where he might act up (in addition to being hungry, tired, etc.). Structure definitely helps and I would guess as your son get accustomed to the new school year things will improve. I also find it helpful to give kids control over areas where it is appropriate. This is part of the Love and Logic approach -- allow kids the opportunity to make decisions and then have to live with the decision. It might be worth considering letting him quit soccer but no back-and-forth. It is either a yes or a no. My son also plays piano and I tell him if he chooses not to cooperate and practice then he will no longer have lessons. As much I would hate for that to happen I would take him out if he continually chose not to practice.

[BAMFMrsB]

Aug 27, 2014 7:59:14 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

Aug 26, 2014 20:22:08 GMT -5 @amydm said:

Is protein linked to behavior? Does more protein help behavior?
His food yesterday-
Breakfast- 2 homemade waffles with real butter and real maple syrup
Snack- salt and pepper pistachios
Lunch (bought at school) - french toast sticks with fake syrup, sausage, hashbrowns, OJ, fruit
Dinner- chicken tostada (corn tortilla with homemade refried beans, chicken and pepper jack cheese), tortilla chips and cheesy bacon dip leftover from a party, and raspberries. He had some Naked juice to drink

Today-

Breakfast-one plain homemade waffle
Snack- Annie's cheddar bunnies
Lunch- I made pepperoni and cheddar cheese kabobs, raspberries, organic juice box
Dinner- TJ's turkey corndog (DH was gone so I don't cook if its just me and the kids), Naked juice, string cheese, pretzel crackers, dried cranberries
Snack-oatmeal
My general rule is I try to avoid dyes and make as much from scratch as possible. He usually eats greek yogurt or waffles for breakfast. He has become more picky the last 3-4 months.

Get this kid some protein morning, noon and night. You will see a huge difference. Scrambled eggs and whole grain toast w/milk for breakfast, w/milk.  Lunch: milk, egg salad or peanut butter or cheese or tunafish for lunch, on whole grain bread, cottage cheese, nuts, sunflower seeds, milk, a half a banana or berries. Dinner, chicken/beans/meat of some kind, with a green salad or some carrots/fruit/whatever veg and milk. No more than 20 grams of sugar in a given 24 hour period.  This was therapist recommended for ds1 after he turned into a shitpig in kindergarten, biting, kicking, shoving kids down, unable to keep his temper, and I am telling you it worked in 36 hours.  We kept it up through high school; both my kids eat like this now (they are 19 and 21). When they had meltdowns I would walk them to the kitchen, say "sounds like  you need a bit of protein, and fast! it's magic on this kind of thing!" and fix them peanut butter bread and a glass of milk. 

If he's picky eating, don't sweat it, just tell him there isn't any maple syrup left and the french toast people went out of business and the waffle iron broke so this is all.there.is. Talk up protein like it's the food of the gods (which it is) how it is magic with the blues, how it'll help him keep his temper, and pick it up and eat a bite yourself. 

Threadjack: We get home and some days DS immediately asks for "peepee butter". The kid knows he needs his protein! His school has gone nut-free (TWSS?) and I know it's good for the 'herd' but DS needs his protein when we get home! I've also been adding a scoop of cottage cheese to his dinner plate. He's been downing milk overnight so I know he's going through a growth spurt.

[dragonfly08]

Aug 26, 2014 21:09:03 GMT -5 h said:

Hunger/lack of protein is definitely the thing most likely to set my 7 yo off. Also, not having a chance to decompress.  

I've got a 10 yo who falls into this category.  We call it her "angry monster" and refer to being "hangry" (hungry/angry).  She doesn't usually get physical, except maybe with her little sister on occasion and even then it's more rude than violent, but she *definitely* gets mean/moody/unpleasant.  I'll ask her if she'd like a PB sandwich or a cheese stick or some yogurt, but at her age it sort of has to be her idea so I can't force it even though I 100% know it's what she needs.  Fortunately, also because of her age she's able to recognize it herself and often gets a snack even before I have the chance to ask.  As for the decompression, reading is her thing.  She gets at least 20 minutes after school before homework, and reads before bed to help herself "power down" (as she referred to it this morning over breakfast).

Hope things get better soon!

[hski2349]

My friend has a son and she was having troubles with him at 4/5/6. She asked the doctor, and one thing the doctor said was do not take away physical activities as a punishment. She said a lot of boys need to physical outlet. This may be harder though, considering you said he does not like soccer. Is there another activity he may like.

[ijack]

One thing I've found with my 6yo is that making rules goes over better than taking things away. So my rule would be that he got to watch tv after he practiced X and it would always be like that. he would always get tv after X and if he didn't do X then no tv. For some reason that is better than saying "you didn't do x, so no tv" - setting the expectation I guess.

[Marmee]

My DD2 (7yrs old now) had extreme moodiness which was tied to constipation. When she didn't feel good she was miserable to be around...the littlest thing would set her off. Just throwing that out there because at that age, I had no idea because she's on her own in the bathroom. She also has neurological issues (tics, anxiety) & it makes everything worse. I notice she's having issues (constipation which leads to bedwetting) that I thought were long gone (she did great all summer) since starting school again. Now she knows to tell me & I'll give her meds so hopefully it's short term. For general discipline I use Love & Logic & have for 5yrs.

[oliviapope]

Aug 27, 2014 13:54:01 GMT -5 @amydm said:

Aug 26, 2014 22:01:30 GMT -5 oliviapope said:

My son was 5.5 when he finally got diagnosed. Even his teacher said "I don't see an issue, but if you feel you need an eval..." I literally started feeling crazy myself!
His OT and developmental pedi both say that a lot of times kids can keep it together really well at school. However, when they come home they just lose some of those coping mechanisms that they use during the day.

For us it was the excessive "breakdowns". We could handle the clothing (super picky), and other stuff-but the social and behavioral I didn't know what to do. We have learned a ton at OT, and she noticed reasons why he may be frustrated that I didn't notice before. I have learned a lot of tools to help him as well. We have seen such a huge improvement in his sleep/eating/attitude that I am glad I pushed. The counselor should have some good ideas for you as well!

Your son may just be going through a transition with a new grade and a new routine. He may just need some down time during the afternoons (maybe for can work on building a lego set or something) or schedule outside time just like an activity. School nights are so stressful-there is never enough time I feel like! Feel free to ask about anything we have done. I feel that as much as my son has changed in a year, so have I as a parent.

I haven't researched SPD but know a bit about it from friends. I have been thinking about it all morning and here are some things I have thought of.
he doesn't like crunchy food- except chips and crackers
he only likes pottery barn chamois sheets, not regular sheets
he knocks over drinks all the time 
he doesn't like button down shirts bc they aren't comfy, as he says
he literally cries and throws a fit if it is hot in the car
when he was 3, he had a kindermusik class at preschool and was overwhelmed. He sat down on the floor and covered his ears. 
He likes tball and swimming. He hated basketball and soccer after a few weeks. Maybe too much chaos.

Definitely get an OT consult. If this is ALL you can think of, then it isn't that big if a deal. However, OT can help you manage some of these issues so you have less dramatic outbursts. Feel free to PM for more info.