I am 99% a lurker, but find thwt ai have a situation that I would appreciate some perspective on. My daughter (12 yo) just came back from a start-of-the-year 3-day camping trip with her middle school class. The camping site was a couple of hours from home, and from the description, was pretty primitive - they had to dig a hole for a toilet, carry in all their water, etc. Fine. However, when they first arrived at the site and were carrying their equipment the quarter-mile to the camp site, 3 kids were stung by yellow jackets, one of them 16 times. (The kid with 16 stings went home, but the others stayed). My daughter reports that there were several of these wasp nests around the camping site, and that the teachers were pretty laid-back about the kids getting stung and the other wasps around. The next day, another 3 kids were stung (just once or twice each). This makes almost a third of the entire group that was stung on this trip! Fortunately, no one was allergic, but I am wondering how upset it is reasonable to be that the teaches (there were 3 on the trip) didn't consider changing locations?
I am generally pretty breezy about things, and I realize that when camping there is the risk of stings, etc., but I can't shake the feeling that this was irresponsible on the part of the teachers. One kid gets stung? Probably just back luck. But 6 kids in 3 days? That's excessive, right? Plus, those little buggers STING, and some people (me included) are very sensitve, although not allergic, to them. I don't even know if my daughter is allergic, as she has never been stung before, but I would rather she not find out while out in the middle of nowhere! Should I just chalk this all up to a learning experience for my daughter (she hates bees and wasps, and did not enjoy spending 3 days worried about getting stung), or is it worth talking to the teachers/schools about this? There is another camping trip on the (distant) horizon, and I'm jot sure how comfortable I am with her going. (She herself doesn't want to go again, even though it is technically compulsory.)
TL;DR. A third of my middle school daughter's class was stung by yellow jqckets on a school camping trip. Teachers didn't even consider moving the camping site or changing the plans. Don't know if I should just let it go, or talk to the teachers about it.
idk. it's a bummer that everyone was getting stung, BUT, i'm not sure how surprising that is considering it's wasp season. so, even moving the location wouldn't help.
the next trip, provided it's not in august/september would likely not have the same issue.
if you want to get it off your chest - that's fine, but i'm not sure what it would accomplish (except for having them reconsider the activity for next year's students.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. I'm not sure what it would accomplish. It does make me worry a bit about their judgment, though. Also, the boy who was stung 16 times apparently had a bunch of wasps on him, and the teachers just gave him plastic bags to crush and kill them, but stayed away otherwise. I don't know, maybe this is the recommended course of action when someone is swarmed by yellow jackets, but I was surprised they didn't help him to get them off, at least.
Well, they certainly should plan better next time.
Wasps like meat, so a trick that actually works is to stick a piece of hot dog on a stick and set it on top of a cup of soapy water. They go for the hot dog, fall into the water and can't get out.
I'm not sure how they could have moved the camping site or changed plans. Usually those places have to be booked months in advance. And it's not like they could just change locations (even if there was a place to move to) without prior consent from all the parents. And I imagine there would have been problems if they decided to just pack up and go home (what if a student's parents went out of town?).
I wouldn't have expected them to pack up and come home over this, but we live in an area with a ton of state parks/camp sites. Also, I know that one of the teachers lives on a farm where they have, in the past, done the camping trip. So that would have been a possibility. That said, informing the parents might have been a hassle, and ai am sure it would have been a pain to have to pack up and move.
I think that's the risk you take with camping. Some sites will have lots of bees, ants, mosquitos and other creepy crawlers that can bite or sting you.
I don't think it's excessive for several kids to get stung because other than packing up and going home or being locked in your tent for 3 days straight I don't think there is much you can due to avoid insects in a camp situation.
I guess as a parent though I'd want to know what type of first aid they bring on these trips and how they handle things if your child does get hurt.
You can't just change camps like that. I've been a few times and they're always strict with who goes where. yellow jackets are bastards and they are everywhere. Even at our house, when we find a nest and destroy it, three more pop up. I don't really know that, even *if* they destroyed the nests, it would've helped.
I find camping very unfun, and toilet holes? I think that's worse than the yellow jackets.
Yes, well the whole thing sounded absolutely awful to me, but maybe I would have liked it at 12 I will say that my daughter, who had never been camping before (as ai said, I am not a camper), has decided that it is not something she wants to do again. I did suggest she could trya place that at least has running water and an outhouse on site, but At the moment she is declaring she will never stay anywhere but a hotel again.
I wouldn't have expected them to pack up and come home over this, but we live in an area with a ton of state parks/camp sites. Also, I know that one of the teachers lives on a farm where they have, in the past, done the camping trip. So that would have been a possibility. That said, informing the parents might have been a hassle, and ai am sure it would have been a pain to have to pack up and move.
but you do realize, they can't just change locations on a whim right? There's liability, reservations, bussing, deposits involved. it takes quite some time to organize a class trip, it's not just "oh, this place has wasps, let's go to Hilda's farm." besides, you don't know that there wouldn't be issues elsewhere. it is nature after all.
Yes, that makes sense. Thanks (everyone) for your views. I guess I will just let it go, and be really glad that my daughter wasn't stung, and I wasn't there. The one time I was stung by a yellow jacket, I got an awful raised, bulls-eye type welt that lasted weeks, and had several days where it felt like I was being randomly stabbed in the spot with a sharp needle. Those things are awful!
I think that's the risk you take with camping. Some sites will have lots of bees, ants, mosquitos and other creepy crawlers that can bite or sting you.
I don't think it's excessive for several kids to get stung because other than packing up and going home or being locked in your tent for 3 days straight I don't think there is much you can due to avoid insects in a camp situation.
I guess as a parent though I'd want to know what type of first aid they bring on these trips and how they handle things if your child does get hurt.
I know they have a standard forst-aid kit, but I don't know if they bring an epipen. Since people don't always know they are allergic to wasps/bees until they are stung, it would be comforting to know they have something to handle it should someone have a severe reaction.
Well, they certainly should plan better next time.
Wasps like meat, so a trick that actually works is to stick a piece of hot dog on a stick and set it on top of a cup of soapy water. They go for the hot dog, fall into the water and can't get out.
I think that's the risk you take with camping. Some sites will have lots of bees, ants, mosquitos and other creepy crawlers that can bite or sting you.
I don't think it's excessive for several kids to get stung because other than packing up and going home or being locked in your tent for 3 days straight I don't think there is much you can due to avoid insects in a camp situation.
I guess as a parent though I'd want to know what type of first aid they bring on these trips and how they handle things if your child does get hurt.
I know they have a standard forst-aid kit, but I don't know if they bring an epipen. Since people don't always know they are allergic to wasps/bees until they are stung, it would be comforting to know they have something to handle it should someone have a severe reaction.
Epi pens have to be prescribed. Teachers wouldn't be able to just carry one on them.
I get where you're coming from, but you got a case of the mama bears ;-) Camping sucks, it really does. Fucking bugs and dirt and ugh. no. there's a reason god made people who make buildings and hotels.
Yes, my mother was reminding me that when we used to go camping when i was a kid, her father would always shake his head in disbelief and say, "I worked my whole life so you could have a comfortable house and conveniences, and now you go sleep in a tent and use an outhouse for vacation?" he grew up very poor in a foreign country, and couldn't fwthom the idea of recreational camping. I'm pretty much on his side!
What would you have wanted the teachers to do? They can't just pack up and go home, and they certainly can't change camp sites.
I take 40 7th graders camping, and it's a pain in the ass from start to finish, frankly. I don't think I would do anything more than call the parents of the stung kids, and monitor them closely.
I know they have a standard forst-aid kit, but I don't know if they bring an epipen. Since people don't always know they are allergic to wasps/bees until they are stung, it would be comforting to know they have something to handle it should someone have a severe reaction.
Epi pens have to be prescribed. Teachers wouldn't be able to just carry one on them.
We now have non-prescription epi pens at my school.
Maybe they couldn't do much more than they did but I would not make my daughter go on the next one unless they rethink their strategy.
My private Christian school also had a mandatory camping trip the second week of school. We packed up and shipped to a camp a couple hours away. But our camp was an actual camp. With bunkhouses, bathhouses, a mess hall a lake and a nurse onsite. There were team building activities, actual cooked meals, and heat and AC in the mess hall.
I think it was very irresponsible to take 18 middle schoolers to such a primitive camp with only 3 adults. With these kids having varying degrees of outdoorsman expertise I don't think it was a good school trip. If we were talking about Boy Scouts that did it regularly that would be different. But not a school.
Post by penguingrrl on Aug 30, 2014 7:22:06 GMT -5
That trip sounds like it was a disaster start to finish, but then camping is my worst nightmare and has been since I was a little kid. Even Girl Scout camp in a cabin with plumbing wasn't fun for me.
It sounds like a rough trip, but these are 12s who should be up to that kind of 72 hour trip. I've done this sort of camping with new boy scouts (end of 5th grade). There are generally a couple of less robust boys who struggle at first but do grow in the process.
Is this a mandatory thing? A private school?
They can't really change the venue because of bees once parents have signed off. It's kind of presumptuous to expect a teacher to host this given the liability involved. If she's done it before and declined this time, we can assume there's a legitimate reason she isn't offering again.
I would expect a first aid kit to contain an Epi and Benedryl; DS's school doesn't take trips of this nature without an RN. His marching band did a performance tour of Argentina a few years ago where they managed to nearly all come down with Norovirus- the nurse had her work cut out for her with 120 sick kids.
FWIW, coverage on the trip was about 10 students per staff (teachers, administrators, and RN). When we camp with scouts at a BSA residence camp (not quite this rustic) the BSA gives us 2 adults with the first 8 scouts and an additional freebie for each 10 boys we bring.
I do know how you feel though. DS's elementary had a load of playground mulch delivered that had wasp nests just before he started 4th grade. It was a new school for him; he's on spectrum and was moving from a school with 121 kids between 1st and post-graduate to a building that had over 130 4th graders. Several kids had been stung on the playground and flying insects were very anxiety inducing for DS. After the first recess where 12 kids got stung, he elected to hide out in the mens room- Witness-style with his feet up in a stall. The school actually called me to see if he'd chosen to walk home- I was not a happy camper. I was also pretty pissed that they referred to this as DS having an irrational fear- 10% of the kids getting stung (the kids in the multiply disabled self contained class use a different ADA compatible playground with rubber mats instead of mulch- so they were on the other side of the building for this recess) in a 15 minute period is not irrational.
The school's hands were tied, they couldn't bring in an exterminator to use a systematic chemical to kill the wasps and it was several days before they could schedule the removal and replacement of the mulch. The PTA paid for rubber mulch. Now they have an organic garden and welcome the bees.
Post by cinnamoncox on Aug 30, 2014 8:32:13 GMT -5
I think it's bullshit the teachers didn't help the kid who was covered in them though. Yikes!
I can see it being a bother and I would not be happy if this happened to my child, but I think it's a bad time to camp. I mean, I'm not outdoorsy at all, but is there anyplace at all in the woods they could've gone without a nest or are they literally everywhere? Literally?
If my child came home early from a trip with 16 wasp/hornet stings, someone would hear from me and I'm not sure it's rational, but I would certainly complain.
Maybe they couldn't do much more than they did but I would not make my daughter go on the next one unless they rethink their strategy.
My private Christian school also had a mandatory camping trip the second week of school. We packed up and shipped to a camp a couple hours away. But our camp was an actual camp. With bunkhouses, bathhouses, a mess hall a lake and a nurse onsite. There were team building activities, actual cooked meals, and heat and AC in the mess hall.
I think it was very irresponsible to take 18 middle schoolers to such a primitive camp with only 3 adults. With these kids having varying degrees of outdoorsman expertise I don't think it was a good school trip. If we were talking about Boy Scouts that did it regularly that would be different. But not a school.
Yew, this is more or less where I am. I think camping for a school trip can be fine, in a situation where there are some facilities (running water, toilets, etc.). But aside from the wasp situation, the whole trip sounds pretty awful. It's hard to see the educational value in crapping in a hole. Also, they saw a bear on the hike! I doubt the bear was much of a risk to a largish group, but really? Can't a school find something a little less rough and risky to do as a bonding experience?
Yeah, I don't see my daughter asking to go backpacking/camping again any time in the foreseeable future. I asked her if she had at least learned something on this trip, and she said, "YES. I HATE camping!"
I think it's bullshit the teachers didn't help the kid who was covered in them though. Yikes!
I can see it being a bother and I would not be happy if this happened to my child, but I think it's a bad time to camp. I mean, I'm not outdoorsy at all, but is there anyplace at all in the woods they could've gone without a nest or are they literally everywhere? Literally?
If my child came home early from a trip with 16 wasp/hornet stings, someone would hear from me and I'm not sure it's rational, but I would certainly complain.
If it had been my kid who got 16 stings, and I learned the teachers hadn't tried to help her get them off, I would be talking to the school. As it stands, though, I'm not planning to bring it up. It's not like they can do anything about it now. However, I'm also not going to require my child to go on the next trip, unless she decides she really wants to. They can say it's compulsory, but they can't keep me from calling in sick for her.
It sounds like a rough trip, but these are 12s who should be up to that kind of 72 hour trip. I've done this sort of camping with new boy scouts (end of 5th grade). There are generally a couple of less robust boys who struggle at first but do grow in the process.
Is this a mandatory thing? A private school?
I would expect a first aid kit to contain an Epi and Benedryl; DS's school doesn't take trips of this nature without an RN. His marching band did a performance tour of Argentina a few years ago where they managed to nearly all come down with Norovirus- the nurse had her work cut out for her with 120 sick kids.
Yes, private school. I do think it is kind of funny that part of the tuition we pay goes so that our daughter can have the experience of digging a latrine They do say it is mandatory, which - after this experience - I am not too thrilled about. I know that scouts do this kind of thng all the time, but it sounds like (1) the scouts are better prepared, and (2) scouting is voluntary. I mean, I realize that attending a private school is also voluntary, but we have been there for many years and overall had a very good experience.
I wish they did have an RN to accompany them - they would make me feel a lot better. But i will find out if they at least have an EpiPen in the first aid kit.
If it had been my kid who got 16 stings, and I learned the teachers hadn't tried to help her get them off, I would be talking to the school. As it stands, though, I'm not planning to bring it up. It's not like they can do anything about it now. However, I'm also not going to require my child to go on the next trip, unless she decides she really wants to. They can say it's compulsory, but they can't keep me from calling in sick for her.
Is that really a great precedent to set with her? That if something is out of her comfort zone she should totally avoid it all together?
Or that you (or later her) should just lie to get out of things she doesn't want to do?
She doesn't have a problem with doing things that are uncomfortable for her - we have generally always insisted that she suck it up and do what is required whther she likes it or not. This has been true for school, travel, eating, etc. In this case, though, I have serious doubts about the wisdom of this trip and the way it was organized, and I am not at all convinced of the pedagogical value of it. A camping trip is fine. Doing really primitive, dig-a-latrine while fighting off wasps, with no running water to bathe seems unnecessary and frankly, very unpleasant.
I could go tell the school straight up that she won't be going on another camping trip, but I don't think it is worth the hassle and pissing off the teachers over something that is now past.