The Case For Letting High Schoolers Sleep In

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2014 16:12:40 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Sept 1, 2014 16:05:55 GMT -5 @julesf said:

We can't get a levy passed, either.

I don't think the opening bell time makes a difference as long as there's not parental supervision. Kids won't suddenly get more sleep. They will stay up later on FB, texting, playing video games, etc. It's the same as adults; if you know you have more time to stay up, you will, just like I do in the summertime.

In my experience, older students are pretty much "done" by 2:00, and I'd rather there be a half hour left of school than ninety minutes. There's also a lot to be said for having a big chunk of time at the end of the day for family time, leisure, doing homework...

Except that the actual data don't support your position that there will be some negligible return. That's what this article is saying and what others before it have said. We aren't hypothesizing at this point. We're simply choosing to prioritize some other set of values both as individuals and as a culture.

Disagree.  Where are the differences in test scores?  Are there studies in reputable journals to that effect?  Not just what people think about the issue, but actual test scores?  

[Deleted]

Yes, I live in the real world as well, and we can't even get a small levy passed. We're in a state of attrition where people who retire don't get replaced, there are salary freezes, books will never be replaced, etc.

Add to that the fact that every spare dime is probably going to the technology to pay for taking the PARCC/SMarterBalance tests online.

The finances just aren't there. We have a 40% poverty rate.

[Deleted]

Vox is an opinion journal, by the way. I don't know why its conclusions would be sacrosanct and substituted for research. The studies might be out there someplace, but this isn't an example of a study where one could say, "Vox says it; therefore, your opinion is wrong."

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2014 16:12:40 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Sept 1, 2014 16:05:55 GMT -5 @julesf said:

We can't get a levy passed, either.

I don't think the opening bell time makes a difference as long as there's not parental supervision. Kids won't suddenly get more sleep. They will stay up later on FB, texting, playing video games, etc. It's the same as adults; if you know you have more time to stay up, you will, just like I do in the summertime.

In my experience, older students are pretty much "done" by 2:00, and I'd rather there be a half hour left of school than ninety minutes. There's also a lot to be said for having a big chunk of time at the end of the day for family time, leisure, doing homework...

Except that the actual data don't support your position that there will be some negligible return. That's what this article is saying and what others before it have said. We aren't hypothesizing at this point. We're simply choosing to prioritize some other set of values both as individuals and as a culture.

Agreed. Kids stay up texting and shit because their natural rhythm keeps them up that long. We are merely considering moving the school day to line up better when that.

[lasagnasshole]

Sept 1, 2014 16:43:58 GMT -5 @julesf said:

Vox is an opinion journal, by the way. I don't know why its conclusions would be sacrosanct and substituted for research. The studies might be out there someplace, but this isn't an example of a study where one could say, "Vox says it; therefore, your opinion is wrong."

LOL.

There has been scientific research on this for decades. It's why my school district changed to HS starting at 8:45 way back in 1992.

Nobody is relying on Vox.

[KB]

Aug 31, 2014 19:34:56 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

In Virginia's Fairfax County, for example, the first buses start to pick up high school students at 5:45 a.m.; middle and high schools in the district start class at 7:20 a.m. The school board is considering four proposals to help high school students get more sleep; all would start the school day after 8:10 a.m.

This is just fucking insane.

I am guessing that if the younger kids started earlier, nobody would have to wait for the bus at 5:45 because people tend to live closer to their elementary school than their high school.

But work, sports, whatever. There HAS to be a better way than teenagers catching the bus at FIVE FORTY FIVE IN THE GODDAMNED MORNING. I rarely even WAKE UP that early as an adult with a job. This is completely insane.

Not that I was inclined to move to Fairfax County, but this would be a deal-killer for me. I am absolutely never moving any place where my teenagers are going to school that early.

I graduated from Ffx County high schools and the start time was miserable. After sports and a part time job, I was a walking zombie. 

[lasagnasshole]

Sept 1, 2014 17:02:11 GMT -5 KB said:

Aug 31, 2014 19:34:56 GMT -5 lasagnasshole said:

In Virginia's Fairfax County, for example, the first buses start to pick up high school students at 5:45 a.m.; middle and high schools in the district start class at 7:20 a.m. The school board is considering four proposals to help high school students get more sleep; all would start the school day after 8:10 a.m.

This is just fucking insane.

I am guessing that if the younger kids started earlier, nobody would have to wait for the bus at 5:45 because people tend to live closer to their elementary school than their high school.

But work, sports, whatever. There HAS to be a better way than teenagers catching the bus at FIVE FORTY FIVE IN THE GODDAMNED MORNING. I rarely even WAKE UP that early as an adult with a job. This is completely insane.

Not that I was inclined to move to Fairfax County, but this would be a deal-killer for me. I am absolutely never moving any place where my teenagers are going to school that early.

I graduated from Ffx County high schools and the start time was miserable. After sports and a part time job, I was a walking zombie. 

BUT BUT! If they start later, there will be no time for sports or jobs!

::eyeroll::

[Deleted]

The thing about school funding is that the bills are never cut and dry. I know here we have ESPLOST and you say yes or no to the measure as a whole. Do you vote yes to increase property taxes by x% in order to fund everything on a list that makes your eyes bleed or do you not?

The list includes shit like building these new schools over here, closing this school over there, expanding programs in those schools, turning this school into a specialty program, build this school a new gym, repair the roof at that school and rip out the AC units in three schools, etc. So you're either voting for all of that or none of that. To say nothing of the fact that a similar measure was passed a few years ago and much of that money is tied up, has been misappropriated, or those projects still aren't done.

So it's not a simple thing to just tell people that if they value education, they will vote to fund the schools.

[NitaX]

Sept 1, 2014 16:36:55 GMT -5 @julesf said:

Yes, I live in the real world as well, and we can't even get a small levy passed. We're in a state of attrition where people who retire don't get replaced, there are salary freezes, books will never be replaced, etc.

Add to that the fact that every spare dime is probably going to the technology to pay for taking the PARCC/SMarterBalance tests online.

The finances just aren't there. We have a 40% poverty rate.

Our poverty rate is around 80%. Our schools actually are eligible for the community free lunch program which means that everyone in our district gets free lunch.

As my granny would say - you can't get blood out of a turnip.

And, trust, I'm all for later start times. Once I hit college, I never scheduled an 8 am class. I was way more alert at 9am. 

[lasagnasshole]

People won't fund the changes necessary = legit excuse.

Wah wah, sports and jobs, I don't believe science, and I don't like change = lame.

[cc]

My daughter's school starts at 7:30 and she has to be at the bus stop at 6:30. The sun isn't even up then.