I'm having a really, really rough day

[borinquen57]

My father is possibly an abusive asshole. Thank you for helping me realize that I'm not wrong.

[whiskeyandwine]

Your mother has spent a lifetime defending/explaining your father's behavior, so her response doesn't surprise me. 

If I were you, I'd have to make the decision to cut him off. You can't control his behavior and he *clearly* isn't going to change for you. I think it's time to start moving in that direction. 

That said, do you have a support system somewhere? Going through a divorce with a toddler and a NB is going to be something you need some support with. 

Good luck to you. 

[shopgirl07]

Oh dear. Your Dad is an abuser, no question. But your Mom is an abuser and an enabler as well. So much so that she's making you question yourself and what you know to be true.

Your relationships with both your Mom and your Dad are toxic. And based on the small snippet you gave about your own husband, it seems like the cycle of violence is repeating. Please continue to go to therapy. You need to get to a healthy place where you have healthy relationships, not abusive and toxic ones.

[josieposy]

I'm sorry. From what you've written I don't think you are overreacting.

[orangeblossom]

I'm really sorry you're going through this.

From what you describe your father was physically and emotionally abusive to you as a child and seems to be on the path of being at least emotionally abusive to your DD. spanking is one thing, busted lips and being hit with objects is abusive.

Your mother has gotten used to it, and believes you add just complaining. Ugh, no. You have valid concerns, and as you said you don't have to put up with it. I would limit yours and DDs time with him. Yeah, by doing so, it seems like your passing judgement on their parenting, by saying you won't subject your child to their yelling and hitting, but who cares. It's abusive behavior, and your child's feelings comes before theirs.

I'm sorry you're seeing the same pattern in your DH. Break the cycle with your daughter, unfortunately, even with the best of intentions, people sometimes marry a spouse like their father, even when they say they won't. I've done it, and know many who have.

Hugs. You're not doing anything wrong protecting your emotional well being and that of your child.

[penguingrrl]

I'm so sorry! You aren't wrong or overreacting. That is abuse, pure and simple. I wouldn't allow my children to be near my father either (in fact, I don't, for very similar reasons, but my parents are long divorced so it's easier). And I'm sorry your husband is showing the same behaviors. If you feel unsafe don't wait for #2 to arrive before leaving. That's not better for you or either of your children.

(((hugs)))

[NewOrleans]

Not overreacting and not a mess.

I just wanted to offer that I successfully, happily, and quietly cut my mother off 5 years ago after a morbid legacy of her being a horrible person and a poisonous presence in my life. She was about to start the same bullshit with my kids. I haven't looked back for a second.

I don't want to diminish the pain of your father's behavior but I feel that the husband thing sounds like a more imminent threat.  Are you safe?  Do you have a safe place?

[Deleted]

Your mother is a partner in your father's abuse. I understand that you don't want to cut yourself off from your entire family but your mother isn't going to magically see the light. She honestly believes that you're just being prickly about your upbringing and holding a grudge.

I am so very sorry that you're seeing these patterns repeated with your husband. And you shouldn't feel sorry for talking to us about it. There's nothing here for us to flame at all.

Are you able to put some money aside and otherwise prepare to leave? Do you have somewhere to go? Because I don't want you to have to depend on your mother.

[10nille]

I could be your sister. Having lived through it I can say you need to cut them both out. My Mom now spins this tale of what a wonderful husband/dad he was and it is like all the abuse never happened. (My Dad is dead, so he becomes a saint in her version)

Don't do what your Mom did and not protect her child from him. You know in your heart and head this is not what you want your child to be around. Feel no guilt about protecting yourself and your DD. It is scary to live in the fear of him exploding. The times I had my children around my Dad I would imagine having to kill him if he ever hit them, it was stressful. Good luck and live a life you've wanted since you were a child. Free from the madness.

[FloFTW]

You are not crazy.

We cut contact completely with my MIL, FIL, and BIL and it was the best decision we made for our family.

What does your therapist say?

[UMaineTeach]

I think you need to talk with the therapist about cutting dad off and severely limiting contact with mom. Like never see mom at her house, never bring DD to her house, and if she starts to talk about your dad, the visit is over.

You are not wrong, this is and was abuse.

[downtoearth]

So sorry - good advice from others. If it was just your dad saying "HEY!" once to your <2yr old when she runs around the dog, even then IMO it's still okay to correct him and ask him to talk to her differently. But with everything else, I think you need to do some serious discussions with your therapist and friends. Hugs.

[sporky]

As someone who grew up in a similar household (except it was my mother) and couldn't admit that there was actual abuse until I was 30 years old, I get it. It's not you-- the most effective abusers are also effective manipulators and are able to turn their words and actions around to make their victims question their own reactions.

You need to know that your father is and was an abuser. And your mother enabled/s him. It doesn't sound like you will be able to have a healthy relationship with them right now, so step back and give yourself and your daughter time to take care of yourselves without worrying how to navigate the mine fields that come with having abusive parents. Best of luck to you.

[origami]

I'm as mad at your mom as I am at your dad and my kids would not go over there again.

I will repeat your mom is part of the problem. I defer to your therapist as to whether or not you should continue limited contact with your mom in some way. But your dad? Bitch boo bye. ((((((hugs))))))

[KB]

Your post sounds just like my relationship with my father. Add some alcohol in for fun and you have a real party of a childhood. We have minimal contact with him but still have contact with my mom and I struggle with it all the time. She made a decision a long time ago to choose his behavior over the well being of her children and now, as a parent, I will never understand it. Cutting off family is a very hard decision but sometimes the right one. You know this isn't normal and I applaud you for not wanting your kids to live in the same cycle. Keep working through it with your therapist. Big hugs.

[thecatinthehat]

You are not overreacting. I grew up with parents who hit me when I misbehave and it is nowhere near as bad as what you describe. I do not agree with this method of parenting anymore. In your situation, I would totally cut all ties with my dad. I would tell my mom however, that I would like to keep a relationship with her (but without the dad involved, so if she wants, she needs to adjust to this). I am also worried about your DH. I would get both of you in counseling very soon before things get worse.

[borinquen57]

Sorry, guys, I didn't mean to post and run. I took DD to the park and since my day wasn't awesome enough, she took a fall and bit her inner, bottom lip pretty badly. I ran her over to H's firehouse to make sure it wasn't super serious and we just got back home. I'll answer everyone in a few, thanks for lam the replies! xo

[borinquen57]

I read through all the responses. Thank you so much!

It's hard to hear the comments about my mom, but I know it's true. Physically, I'm safe and we've talked about counseling so that's still an option. I have a mental deadline for us to start counseling and if he doesn't go, then I'll be leaving and filing. This is non-negotiable for me.

[Deleted]

It's very possible that things are not so smooth with them as it seems to you. I would say it's probably very likely that he's emotionally abusive to her when you're not around and that she behaves the way she does to avoid his anger. It may not look and sound like traditional abuse but it can be there nonetheless.

Or she may just want to keep the peace, live in denial, and not confront a truth that could very well end her marriage.

I just don't want you to feel like she's choosing your father over you or that she doesn't love you or your daughter. She's just living her life the way she knows how I suppose and I'd be curious to know how she grew up that this is okay for her, kwim?

None of that means you need to keep your father in your life or spend time with him or that you have to keep spending time with your mother and risking your daughter being screamed at by your father. I

[borinquen57]

Sept 1, 2014 22:14:44 GMT -5 @helenabonhamcarter said:

I just don't want you to feel like she's choosing your father over you or that she doesn't love you or your daughter. She's just living her life the way she knows how I suppose and I'd be curious to know how she grew up that this is okay for her, kwim?
  

I know she loves me, but yes, this is normal to her. It's alarming how none of this stood out to me until I became a mom.  

[Deleted]

Sept 1, 2014 23:03:39 GMT -5 borinquen57 said:

I know she loves me, but yes, this is normal to her. My grandfather was verbally abusive to my grandmother. I wouldn't doubt if he he'd hit her, but he cussed at her a lot. I think because my father doesn't swear at her, or at all, she's in a "better" situation. It's alarming how none of this stood out to me until I became a mom.  

It's really difficult to see those patterns though. Society focuses a lot of positive attributes in a partner, some warm fuzzy feelings, and an incredibly short list of red flags, kwim?

The good thing is that you see them now and that you have a plan in place for dealing with it. I know it seems disheartening now but you're already several steps ahead of where either of your parents were when you were a child. Your children are very luck to have you as a mom.

[borinquen57]

Thank you.

[mrsukyankee]

Sept 1, 2014 22:02:18 GMT -5 borinquen57 said:

As far as H, he's not physical but there's a lot of name calling and that hurtful words when an argument pops up. Physically, I'm safe and we've talked about counseling so that's still an option. I have a mental deadline for us to start counseling and if he doesn't go, then I'll be leaving and filing. This is non-negotiable for me.

Have you told your H about this?  Have you demanded counselling? Not in a "I'll leave you if you don't come" but in a "This is not good for our relationship and for our kids to hear this. You need to come with me to counselling so we can heal our relationship and make sure that our kids don't learn this behaviour." And then let him know you are making an appointment for the two of you can that's it.

[compassrose]

Sept 2, 2014 2:32:16 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

Sept 1, 2014 22:02:18 GMT -5 borinquen57 said:

As far as H, he's not physical but there's a lot of name calling and that hurtful words when an argument pops up. Physically, I'm safe and we've talked about counseling so that's still an option. I have a mental deadline for us to start counseling and if he doesn't go, then I'll be leaving and filing. This is non-negotiable for me.

Have you told your H about this?  Have you demanded counselling? Not in a "I'll leave you if you don't come" but in a "This is not good for our relationship and for our kids to hear this. You need to come with me to counselling so we can heal our relationship and make sure that our kids don't learn this behaviour." And then let him know you are making an appointment for the two of you can that's it.

This. He needs to know he's threatening his whole life as he knows it with his behavior.
You are in such a hard place. Do you have good friends IRL? This is so much to go through, and I'm betting your mom may not be super supportive if you bed up filing.
Hugs.

[lys]

Ditto Shopgirl

I HIGHLY recommend finding a good counselor - they will help  you with some good support in your transitions as well as getting a handle and perspective on your family of origin and the issues that go with it.   You do not want to expose your children to this kind of behavior. Please use a professional to help you navigate this and build a better future for you and your kids. You will be so glad you take the time and do the hard work it will require.

Best to you.

[Velar Fricative]

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this.

[tictac]

Given her reaction to your concerns, I honestly don't think your mom's all that great either. I get that you're close with her, but she enables your dad's abusiveness and then victim-shames you whenever you express concerns about it. Why would you want a relationship with either of these toxic people?

[Deleted]

Ditto to KB.  

I can relate to so many things that you wrote. I cut my parents off for the last 2 years because I finally started to unpack 30 years of emotional and physical bullshit and I couldn't take it anymore. I wrote them an anger fueled letter with all of their trespasses against me and sent it (I wouldn't recommend this, necessarily) but I can see now that I had to get to that point to deal with all of it.



I found a therapist that I loved and did EMDR.
 It took a lot for me to "unpack" all of the feelings of guilt and shame and all the shit that goes with it.  And I was surprised how ANGRY I was with my mom too.  She let it happen.  She was being abused too, which made me feel guilty, but still angry.  So many childhood emotions that I never dealt with.

Having my kids totally brought up all of these things for me, and when I realized that I would NEVER leave my children alone with these people I finally got into therapy.  Now, 2 years later I am starting to talk to my parents.  But I called them out on it all and it kind of hangs there every conversation.  They haven't seen my kids yet (and not sure if/when they will) but I know for myself that I've established strong boundaries.  And I have no problem cutting them out of my life if need be.

Huge hugs to you  (hug2)

[borinquen57]

Sept 2, 2014 2:44:02 GMT -5 compassrose said:

Sept 2, 2014 2:32:16 GMT -5 mrsukyankee said:

Have you told your H about this?  Have you demanded counselling? Not in a "I'll leave you if you don't come" but in a "This is not good for our relationship and for our kids to hear this. You need to come with me to counselling so we can heal our relationship and make sure that our kids don't learn this behaviour." And then let him know you are making an appointment for the two of you can that's it.

This. He needs to know he's threatening his whole life as he knows it with his behavior.
You are in such a hard place. Do you have good friends IRL? This is so much to go through, and I'm betting your mom may not be super supportive if you bed up filing.
Hugs.

H knows that I will not stay married w/out counseling but I'm not making any appointments for him/us. I feel like I've always been the one to fight for us and I need him to do this. I need to see that saving this marriage is something he wants to do, and the only way I feel I'll see it is if he takes charge on this. Does that make sense? Aside from finances and custody, I don't see a negative to being divorced from him and starting fresh with the kids and a new normal for us. I would go back to counseling for myself, though.

ETA: I do have good friends that I can lean on, at least emotionally. This pregnancy was unplanned, and before that I had started looking for jobs and a lawyer. I figure, I'll continue SAH for now (unless anything major changes) and look for work in January when baby comes. I should, hopefully, find something by March and be out with the kids by early summer.

[compassrose]

Sept 2, 2014 11:01:30 GMT -5 borinquen57 said:

Sept 2, 2014 2:44:02 GMT -5 compassrose said:

H knows that I will not stay married w/out counseling but I'm not making any appointments for him/us. I feel like I've always been the one to fight for us and I need him to do this. I need to see that saving this marriage is something he wants to do, and the only way I feel I'll see it is if he takes charge on this. Does that make sense? Aside from finances and custody, I don't see a negative to being divorced from him and starting fresh with the kids and a new normal for us. I would go back to counseling for myself, though.

ETA: I do have good friends that I can lean on, at least emotionally. This pregnancy was unplanned, and before that I had started looking for jobs and a lawyer. I figure, I'll continue SAH for now (unless anything major changes) and look for work in January when baby comes. I should, hopefully, find something by March and be out with the kids by early summer.

I am sending such good thoughts your way. I know how much getting divorced sucks, and I know what it's like to have your parents not be on your side. I hope it doesn't go down that way for you. Maybe your H will wake up and see the light.

In the mean time though, there are friendly internet strangers cheering for you!