s/o Unschool Article

[lilac05]

I found the article I mentioned in the other thread.  I would fail miserably at unschooling, but apparently it works well for some.  I think it takes a very specific combination of personalities, lifestyles, life experiences, etc. to work.  Unfortunately, I think many people just consider it "Let the kid play while I do housework/work from home" and it's more "anti-school" than unschool.

The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

[Deleted]

I have a couple of friends I respect who unschool very successfully. Their kids are well-rounded and well-socialized (and well-educated).

I don't really know much about their process or goals, or unschooling in general, so I don't have an opinion on it one way or another. I do think there's a gulf of difference between principled unschooling and just letting the kid play while you do your thing.

[ECB]

I would so fail miserably too. I know people who would be good at it - they'd turn everything into a learning experience. That's just so not me.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 14:36:57 GMT -5 ECB said:

I would so fail miserably too. I know people who would be good at it - they'd turn everything into a learning experience. That's just so not me.

I used to think I would never be able to do it, but as DD1 gets older, I find myself naturally turning things into learning experiences. She is really interested in phonics right now so we practice sounding things out in the car, grocery store, etc. I also teach her some basic science (e.g. talking about photosynthesis and evergreen/deciduous trees while walking around our neighborhood). I think that, at least for the early elementary years, I would be a good homeschooler (not sure if I would go so far as unschooling).

The real question is do I WANT to do it. I still think not, but it does cross my mind from time to time.

[Deleted]

I could never limit my child so terribly as to deny them a formally recognized education.

[Deleted]

My main concern would be that they would not learn enough math (he says 2 hrs a month on math and science). Math isn't something you learn from playing in nature, and it is very important. --- signed, math teacher.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 14:42:25 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

I could never limit my child so terribly as to deny them a formally recognized education.

What exactly is limiting? The unschooled kids I know are at or (in some cases) well above grade level in all subjects. They are healthy and active, well-rounded and well-socialized and extremely independent. I think their educational options are actually far LESS limited than they would be in many traditional schools.

[wavepool]

I like to think I teach him things along the way, but I like school, I like the concept of school and education that you get at school, so I'll send him to school and "unschool" him as much as I can.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 14:53:30 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

Sept 2, 2014 14:42:25 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

I could never limit my child so terribly as to deny them a formally recognized education.

What exactly is limiting? The unschooled kids I know are at or (in some cases) well above grade level in all subjects. They are healthy and active, well-rounded and well-socialized and extremely independent. I think their educational options are actually far LESS limited than they would be in many traditional schools.

But how to they get into university? I'm an engineer. I've never, ever, ever met an unschooled engineer. If my parents unschooled me, that option would be slammed shut for me.

Fine, you want to farm*? Go nuts. Unschool. You want to participate in  professional life as an adult? Sorry. I hope you like hunting, trapping, and living off the land.

*And actually, most farmers I know do some post-secondary now. I don't know any place that lets you in because you, like, totally know stuff.

[hermione]

Sept 2, 2014 14:59:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Sept 2, 2014 14:53:30 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

What exactly is limiting? The unschooled kids I know are at or (in some cases) well above grade level in all subjects. They are healthy and active, well-rounded and well-socialized and extremely independent. I think their educational options are actually far LESS limited than they would be in many traditional schools.

But how to they get into university? I'm an engineer. I've never, ever, ever met an unschooled engineer. If my parents unschooled me, that option would be slammed shut for me.

Fine, you want to farm*? Go nuts. Unschool. You want to participate in  professional life as an adult? Sorry. I hope you like hunting, trapping, and living off the land.

*And actually, most farmers I know do some post-secondary now. I don't know any place that lets you in because you, like, totally know stuff.

The article says unschooled kids are becoming doctors and lawyers. 

I'm not agreeing with anything in the article, only letting you know this is addressed.

[lilac05]

Sept 2, 2014 14:35:32 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

I have a couple of friends I respect who unschool very successfully. Their kids are well-rounded and well-socialized (and well-educated).

I don't really know much about their process or goals, or unschooling in general, so I don't have an opinion on it one way or another. I do think there's a gulf of difference between principled unschooling and just letting the kid play while you do your thing.

I absolutely agree.  When done correctly, I think principled unschooling (I like that term) is a lot of work for parents.  Constantly figuring out how to make things into a learning experience, after about age 5, is difficult.  (The family in the other post did not seem to follow this, it seemed like she was more anti-curriculum, which is much different.)

Turning everything into a learning opportunity is relatively easy for me (thanks to a degree in SLP)...for young children.  Letters?  Easy.  Numbers?  Check.  Basic science experiments?  Done.  Reading?  Yes, as long as there are no challenging learning difficulties that require more structured/formal instruction.  But doing the same for a 9 year old is a completely different ball game!

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 14:59:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Sept 2, 2014 14:53:30 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

What exactly is limiting? The unschooled kids I know are at or (in some cases) well above grade level in all subjects. They are healthy and active, well-rounded and well-socialized and extremely independent. I think their educational options are actually far LESS limited than they would be in many traditional schools.

But how to they get into university? I'm an engineer. I've never, ever, ever met an unschooled engineer. If my parents unschooled me, that option would be slammed shut for me.

Fine, you want to farm*? Go nuts. Unschool. You want to participate in  professional life as an adult? Sorry. I hope you like hunting, trapping, and living off the land.

*And actually, most farmers I know do some post-secondary now. I don't know any place that lets you in because you, like, totally know stuff.

They get into college the same way anyone else does. They take their SATs and submit their transcripts and write essays and apply. I think that generally once kids are past elementary age, their learning does begin to be more structured in the sense that they are encouraged to more thoroughly research subjects on their own and join classes to gain a greater depth of knowledge. I don't know any unschoolers that would not encourage their children to seek out a more formal education in the subjects that interested them--either through a homeschool co-op, through a job or apprenticeship, or through enrolling in actual classes at a community college or similar. 

Again, I don't unschool or plan to unschool and I am not an expert in it, but I know that my friends who unschool are extremely tuned in to their children's talents and interests. They also know their own limitations and what they are incapable of teaching, and would encourage their children to pursue a formal education as needed to follow a particular career path.

There are lots of paths you can take to get to college and I definitely don't think K-12 public or private school is the only way.

[lilac05]

Sept 2, 2014 14:59:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Sept 2, 2014 14:53:30 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

But how to they get into university? I'm an engineer. I've never, ever, ever met an unschooled engineer. If my parents unschooled me, that option would be slammed shut for me.

Not necessarily.  They just get to point B differently.  The brain is amazing, and the process of learning how to learn new things is what much of our education is about.  You may never actually use trigonometry as a writer, but the process of challenging your brain and forming those new paths to information helps you with your ability to learn OTHER new things that you WILL use in other areas of study.  

I think most responsible unschool parents will begin to guide their children as they get older to learn about other things.  They don't just let them learn about Legos all day, very day for their entire childhood (well, they shouldn't!). 

Like I said, it doesn't appeal to me, but if done well, I don't think it sets a child up for a life of unskilled labor or other "undesired" jobs.  It could/should turn out highly motivated learners.  Kids who learn what they love.  If a child was destined for a career in engineering, he/she would have probably been doing a lot of reading/studying/learning about engineering, math, etc...and may even enter college ahead in those areas because they weren't limited by what their school offered.  As kids get older, it's not just about letting them play in the mud all day, it's letting them choose what they want to learn about.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 15:02:04 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Sept 2, 2014 14:35:32 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

I have a couple of friends I respect who unschool very successfully. Their kids are well-rounded and well-socialized (and well-educated).

I don't really know much about their process or goals, or unschooling in general, so I don't have an opinion on it one way or another. I do think there's a gulf of difference between principled unschooling and just letting the kid play while you do your thing.

I absolutely agree.  When done correctly, I think principled unschooling (I like that term) is a lot of work for parents.  Constantly figuring out how to make things into a learning experience, after about age 5, is difficult.  (The family in the other post did not seem to follow this, it seemed like she was more anti-curriculum, which is much different.)

Turning everything into a learning opportunity is relatively easy for me (thanks to a degree in SLP)...for young children.  Letters?  Easy.  Numbers?  Check.  Basic science experiments?  Done.  Reading?  Yes, as long as there are no challenging learning difficulties that require more structured/formal instruction.  But doing the same for a 9 year old is a completely different ball game!

It definitely is, and I think a huge part of principled unschooling is knowing your limits and knowing when it is time to enroll your child in a co-op or a class. And I definitely know people who do both of those things. The goal isn't keeping your child away from formal education (to my understanding anyway)... it's letting them discover and pursue their passions for themselves without forcing a curriculum on them.


I suspect, as with most things in parenting, that whether unschooling is a "good" or "bad" choice depends mostly on the personality of the parent and kid and other very individual circumstances.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 15:07:41 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

Sept 2, 2014 14:59:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

But how to they get into university? I'm an engineer. I've never, ever, ever met an unschooled engineer. If my parents unschooled me, that option would be slammed shut for me.

Fine, you want to farm*? Go nuts. Unschool. You want to participate in  professional life as an adult? Sorry. I hope you like hunting, trapping, and living off the land.

*And actually, most farmers I know do some post-secondary now. I don't know any place that lets you in because you, like, totally know stuff.

They get into college the same way anyone else does. They take their SATs and submit their transcripts and write essays and apply. I think that generally once kids are past elementary age, their learning does begin to be more structured in the sense that they are encouraged to more thoroughly research subjects on their own and join classes to gain a greater depth of knowledge. I don't know any unschoolers that would not encourage their children to seek out a more formal education in the subjects that interested them--either through a homeschool co-op, through a job or apprenticeship, or through enrolling in actual classes at a community college or similar. 

Again, I don't unschool or plan to unschool and I am not an expert in it, but I know that my friends who unschool are extremely tuned in to their children's talents and interests. They also know their own limitations and what they are incapable of teaching, and would encourage their children to pursue a formal education as needed to follow a particular career path.

There are lots of paths you can take to get to college and I definitely don't think K-12 public or private school is the only way.

There are no such thing as SATs here, and I never wrote any essays to get into college. There probably are alternative ways in... but I wouldn't gamble on those for the future of my kids. Nope. I'm open to other ways  through school if the traditional one is a stupendously bad fit, but it's hard to convince me this is a good idea. Generally, I'd say it's a pretty bad one. It could work, sometimes, with just the right kids, adults, motivations, supervisions, and ambitions. And it could much more easily not work at all.

I just read this in my cursory google for alternate post-secondary entry in Canada: www.universityaffairs.ca/unschooling-legitimate-pedagogy-or-foolish-fad.aspx
An 11 year old unsure on how to write a "2" does indeed horrify me.

[ssmjlm]

Sept 2, 2014 15:01:41 GMT -5 hermione said:

Sept 2, 2014 14:59:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

But how to they get into university? I'm an engineer. I've never, ever, ever met an unschooled engineer. If my parents unschooled me, that option would be slammed shut for me.

Fine, you want to farm*? Go nuts. Unschool. You want to participate in  professional life as an adult? Sorry. I hope you like hunting, trapping, and living off the land.

*And actually, most farmers I know do some post-secondary now. I don't know any place that lets you in because you, like, totally know stuff.

The article says unschooled kids are becoming doctors and lawyers. 

I'm not agreeing with anything in the article, only letting you know this is addressed.

I don't have a dog in this fight, b/c my kid is going to school, I would love to hear some true stories of this.  Just studying and sitting through the MCAT and LSAT is a lesson in and of itself, nevermind the outcome and then going to medical/law school.

[alexis]

Sept 2, 2014 15:10:59 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

Sept 2, 2014 15:02:04 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

It definitely is, and I think a huge part of principled unschooling is knowing your limits and knowing when it is time to enroll your child in a co-op or a class. And I definitely know people who do both of those things. The goal isn't keeping your child away from formal education (to my understanding anyway)... it's letting them discover and pursue their passions for themselves without forcing a curriculum on them.

What happens when a child simply has no interest in an important subject matter? 

I don't think this article made a very good case for unschooling.  It made a great case for how awesome it is to be outside all of the time and do only things that interest you.  That's not a very hard case to make though.  He also states that they live barely above the poverty line.  That's definitely not something I would want for my family or my kids.

I agree with him that the lack of movement and play in our kids' lives is detrimental to their health and learning, but I have trouble believing that a child with complete autonomy would not have gaps in their education.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 14:48:49 GMT -5 @rainbow said:

My main concern would be that they would not learn enough math (he says 2 hrs a month on math and science). Math isn't something you learn from playing in nature, and it is very important. --- signed, math teacher.

Yes this! I could definitely teach history and probably do a pretty good job with Eng. lit pretty as well but my kids would be doomed if they had to rely solely on me for things like calculus, physics, chemistry, etc. Not to mention music, art, a foreign language. 

If your child is not some type of prodigy, I'm not sure why you would *want* to do this. Sure there are a lot of bad schools out there. But (and here I' totally ASSuming) the people who are privileged enough to pursue "unschooling" correctly are probably also privileged enough to move in order to send their child to a better public school, pay for private school, or even send them to boarding school.

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 15:14:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

Sept 2, 2014 15:07:41 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

They get into college the same way anyone else does. They take their SATs and submit their transcripts and write essays and apply. I think that generally once kids are past elementary age, their learning does begin to be more structured in the sense that they are encouraged to more thoroughly research subjects on their own and join classes to gain a greater depth of knowledge. I don't know any unschoolers that would not encourage their children to seek out a more formal education in the subjects that interested them--either through a homeschool co-op, through a job or apprenticeship, or through enrolling in actual classes at a community college or similar. 

Again, I don't unschool or plan to unschool and I am not an expert in it, but I know that my friends who unschool are extremely tuned in to their children's talents and interests. They also know their own limitations and what they are incapable of teaching, and would encourage their children to pursue a formal education as needed to follow a particular career path.

There are lots of paths you can take to get to college and I definitely don't think K-12 public or private school is the only way.

There are no such thing as SATs here, and I never wrote any essays to get into college. There probably are alternative ways in... but I wouldn't gamble on those for the future of my kids. Nope. I'm open to other ways  through school if the traditional one is a stupendously bad fit, but it's hard to convince me this is a good idea. Generally, I'd say it's a pretty bad one. It could work, sometimes, with just the right kids, adults, motivations, supervisions, and ambitions. And it could much more easily not work at all.

I just read this in my cursory google for alternate post-secondary entry in Canada: www.universityaffairs.ca/unschooling-legitimate-pedagogy-or-foolish-fad.aspx
An 11 year old unsure on how to write a "2" does indeed horrify me.

Let's not split hairs. If there are no Canadian colleges that would accept an unschooled student, there's always Harvard: learninfreedom.org/colleges-home-schooled-students.html (I know that list is for homeschool, not unschool, but the point is these are schools that have entry requirements other than a diploma from a public or private high school.)

I agree with you about the 11 year old who can't write the number 2. Fortunately the unschooled 12 year old I know is very familiar with each and every one of his numbers and is actually quite good at math. There's an anecdote on every side of this argument.

I desperately need to work so I'm leaving the thread now. 

[Deleted]

The thing to me is the risk of damaging a child's future by sending them to school vs. the risk of damaging a child's future by not sending them to school. Some kids will be fine either way. Some kids will not be fine either way. The issues is which way you want to play those odds. I'm definitely not counter-culture or suspicious enough to withhold formal schooling from my kids, and those are the driving themes I see in parents that pursue unschooling. I'm not actually interested in kids. I'm interested in adults - both products of unschooling and those who keep their kids out of school.

[leonard131]

I am all for using life events to help teach and develop my child. But there is no way I could make him a functioning human being if that is all he had to rely on.

I also wonder how these children fold back into a society that is based on curriculm based school system when they have finished the "unschooling" process. Does that make sense- not trying to be snarky?

[lilac05]

Sept 2, 2014 15:14:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

An 11 year old unsure on how to write a "2" does indeed horrify me.

Absolutely!  There will be outliers in each situation.  There are also unschooled doctors.

Was it here or ML where we were discussing the surprising number of illiterate students who are graduating from public high school?  Unfortunately, no one is guaranteed a great education, despite their choice of place/style of education.

As far as living just above the poverty line, some people simply don't care & I can respect that.  (Also remember that their quality of life just above the poverty line is drastically different than mine would be because of their farming/bartering.)  Children often (usually?) grow up with similar values as their parents, so children raised like this (essentially purposefully non-wealthy) will not aspire to have $500k/year jobs and live in McMansions.

[hocus2]

Sept 2, 2014 15:47:56 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Sept 2, 2014 15:14:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

An 11 year old unsure on how to write a "2" does indeed horrify me.

Absolutely!  There will be outliers in each situation.  There are also unschooled doctors.

Was it here or ML where we were discussing the surprising number of illiterate students who are graduating from public high school?  Unfortunately, no one is guaranteed a great education, despite their choice of place/style of education.

As far as living just above the poverty line, some people simply don't care & I can respect that.  (Also remember that their quality of life just above the poverty line is drastically different than mine would be because of their farming/bartering.)  Children often (usually?) grow up with similar values as their parents, so children raised like this (essentially purposefully non-wealthy) will not aspire to have $500k/year jobs and live in McMansions.

Well I don't know about this. People raised in all sorts of ways search for different lifestyles as adults. I think the real reason kids don't shift lifestyles as often is a complex issue. It may have nothing to do with desire but a based on a lack of connections, formal education, economic resources or lack of knowledge about options etc. I'll be honest given my suburban upbringing farming wasn't really something I was considering as a career. These kids might want to be Consultants who make 500K a year. But given their background I'm not sure how attainable that would be.

  

[alexis]

Sept 2, 2014 15:47:56 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Sept 2, 2014 15:14:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

An 11 year old unsure on how to write a "2" does indeed horrify me.

Absolutely!  There will be outliers in each situation.  There are also unschooled doctors.

Was it here or ML where we were discussing the surprising number of illiterate students who are graduating from public high school?  Unfortunately, no one is guaranteed a great education, despite their choice of place/style of education.

As far as living just above the poverty line, some people simply don't care & I can respect that.  (Also remember that their quality of life just above the poverty line is drastically different than mine would be because of their farming/bartering.)  Children often (usually?) grow up with similar values as their parents, so children raised like this (essentially purposefully non-wealthy) will not aspire to have $500k/year jobs and live in McMansions.

I really want to respect it and have a live and let live attitude regarding living just above the poverty line, but I'm really struggling to.  I assume that someone living just above the poverty line has trouble creating or maintaining an emergency fund or retirement accounts or life insurance policies.  What if one of them has a serious medical emergency or one of the parents die?  Will they continue to be able to support themselves and their kids?  Do they plan to farm until they die?  What if their farm has a bad year?

I realize that for many, poverty is simply reality and that escaping it is a monumental task, but I am having trouble accepting that the attitude of, "we live at the poverty line and that's totes cool." is okay.

[swimmette]

Sept 2, 2014 15:47:56 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Sept 2, 2014 15:14:48 GMT -5 @tokenhoser said:

An 11 year old unsure on how to write a "2" does indeed horrify me.

Absolutely!  There will be outliers in each situation.  There are also unschooled doctors.

Was it here or ML where we were discussing the surprising number of illiterate students who are graduating from public high school?  Unfortunately, no one is guaranteed a great education, despite their choice of place/style of education.

As far as living just above the poverty line, some people simply don't care & I can respect that.  (Also remember that their quality of life just above the poverty line is drastically different than mine would be because of their farming/bartering.)  Children often (usually?) grow up with similar values as their parents, so children raised like this (essentially purposefully non-wealthy) will not aspire to have $500k/year jobs and live in McMansions.

Meh, there are a lot of people who have very different ideals and career goals than their parents. My ILs are very blue collar, menial job, etc. and my h is a physician. My mom also just went to HS and I am working on my dissertation. I will say that our parents limited us in that they were not aware of how to go about getting into a top tier college and how to encourage their children to do so. Neither of us were homeschooled.

Are these parents giving their children a fair chance to decide if higher education and structured careers are of interest? How will they function in a structured environment of traditional higher education and a career outside of being self sufficient on the land upon adulthood? How will they learn to handle situations in which a boss tells them to do something that they don't want to do?

I see traditional schooling as much more than learning math and science, so unschooling is not something that I would ever consider or promote for our family.

[turtlegirl]

Sept 2, 2014 16:31:09 GMT -5 swimmette said:

Sept 2, 2014 15:47:56 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Absolutely!  There will be outliers in each situation.  There are also unschooled doctors.

Was it here or ML where we were discussing the surprising number of illiterate students who are graduating from public high school?  Unfortunately, no one is guaranteed a great education, despite their choice of place/style of education.

As far as living just above the poverty line, some people simply don't care & I can respect that.  (Also remember that their quality of life just above the poverty line is drastically different than mine would be because of their farming/bartering.)  Children often (usually?) grow up with similar values as their parents, so children raised like this (essentially purposefully non-wealthy) will not aspire to have $500k/year jobs and live in McMansions.

Meh, there are a lot of people who have very different ideals and career goals than their parents. My ILs are very blue collar, menial job, etc. and my h is a physician. My mom also just went to HS and I am working on my dissertation. I will say that our parents limited us in that they were not aware of how to go about getting into a top tier college and how to encourage their children to do so. Neither of us were homeschooled.

Are these parents giving their children a fair chance to decide if higher education and structured careers are of interest? How will they function in a structured environment of traditional higher education and a career outside of being self sufficient on the land upon adulthood? How will they learn to handle situations in which a boss tells them to do something that they don't want to do?

I see traditional schooling as much more than learning math and science, so unschooling is not something that I would ever consider or promote for our family.

Ditto - especially to the bold. 

The only person I know that is "unschooling" their children is also one who brags about not saying "no" to her children, makes sure they are not forced to share, etc. I had to hide her on FB because she spends 2 hours a day posting/sharing crap that ranges from totally random to "if you child goes to traditional school they are stifled repressed future serial killers". She's left a bad taste in my mouth about the whole "unschooling movement".

[Deleted]

Sept 2, 2014 15:25:24 GMT -5 alexis said:

Sept 2, 2014 15:10:59 GMT -5 @carmensandiego said:

It definitely is, and I think a huge part of principled unschooling is knowing your limits and knowing when it is time to enroll your child in a co-op or a class. And I definitely know people who do both of those things. The goal isn't keeping your child away from formal education (to my understanding anyway)... it's letting them discover and pursue their passions for themselves without forcing a curriculum on them.

What happens when a child simply has no interest in an important subject matter? 

I don't think this article made a very good case for unschooling.  It made a great case for how awesome it is to be outside all of the time and do only things that interest you.  That's not a very hard case to make though.  He also states that they live barely above the poverty line.  That's definitely not something I would want for my family or my kids.

I agree with him that the lack of movement and play in our kids' lives is detrimental to their health and learning, but I have trouble believing that a child with complete autonomy would not have gaps in their education.

A friend of mine had this with her daughter and reading. She let it lie until her daughter had a genuine interest in learning to read (she wanted to do other activities that required reading, the mom wouldn't read stuff to her, so she learned). If it were my child I would struggle with being that laid back and trusting about it. 

I feel like I am coming across as an unschool advocate in this thread and I want to stress once again that I don't have a strong opinion about it. I have a favorable opinion of my friends who unschool (and their children), but that's just a few data points and I have not given much thought to how it might work in my own family dynamic. I embrace some counter-culture values for sure but right now I feel like unschooling is probably too counter-culture even for me.

[h]

I have one friend my age who was essentially "unschooled," though they didn't call it that at the time. His mother considered herself to be a homeschooler, but they did not follow a written curriculum, spent most of their time going to museums, doing things in nature, etc., and let the kids (he has one brother) follow their own interests to a great degree. My friend went to Ivy League undergrad and law schools and has a very well-paid, very prestigious, and very "establishment" job today. It would be difficult for him to be better educated or more successful, and I can't imagine he would of been better off in his poorly rated urban public school. But he is exceedingly intelligent, as is the rest of his family, and I have no doubt that he made the transition from an unschooling environment to elite formal education much easier than most ever could.

I lurked on mothering.com some back in the day, and there were a lot of unschoolers there. Many of them reported letting their kids play video games 10 hours a day and make poor nutritional choices all out of some warped perception of a child's need for autonomy. Some seemed concerned and surprised when their 10 year olds were unable to read a word.

Bottom line is that I don't doubt that unschooling can work well for a small number of families, but I have serious concerns about its efficacy on a larger scale.

[sillygoosegirl]

My family was a little between unschooling and homeschooling. I was friends with a lot of students growing up in each environment, though most were getting a mix, like me. It is now and always has been my opinion that the "correct" amount of structured schooling depends on the student. I had friends who got none and seemed to need none, or who got some and seemed to be getting a good amount, but also friends who seemed like they needed more than they were getting, and friend who seemed like they needed less than they got.

I don't know anything about attending college in Canada, but I don't think my peers had trouble getting into college. Probably 95% or more chose to either attend conventional high school full time starting in 8th or 9th grade, or started taking classes at the community college at around the same age or a little older, typically starting very part time in courses they were interested in or where their parents were weak while continuing their at-home education, but ultimately earning associates degrees around the same time those of us in high school were graduating. Either approach makes getting into college pretty easy.

Personally, I went the high school route, because transportation to the community college would have been difficult for my family (we lived on a farm in the boonies). I found the transition very challenging emotionally, mainly because I was totally unprepared for being treated like a child. But that miserable first semester has always seemed like a small price to pay for the great educational experience I had my first 8 grades.

There were also options at each college or university I applied to for homeschoolers to apply, and of course I read up on them, because I wanted to know what the requirements would have been if I hadn't gone back to school. The test scores I would have needed were beyond what most graduating high school seniors could hope to achieve (not just general tests, subject matter tests in foreign language, etc). I would almost certainly have had to spend 2 years in community college and then transferred based on that transcript... though that would only have put me in the same position that a ton of students in my graduating high school class were in, either due to grades or finances.

You don't see many articles written about these families who only home school or unschool until around 8th or 9th grade, because they are less sensational, but they also represent the vast majority of homeschoolers/unschoolers.

[frlcb]

I know quite a few people who unschool, because of the preschool my daughter is in, which is a very hippy, play based school. Putting aside my feelings of unschooling I will just say that they are all very pretentious about the fact they unschool and they have no qualms talking about how much better their kids lives are than mine because they aren't in school. It does not make me look favorably upon the whole thing.